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Author Topic: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65  (Read 14021 times)

hbelkins

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Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« on: September 25, 2020, 03:31:54 PM »

Announced yesterday (link to congressional press release)
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silverback1065

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2020, 03:34:08 PM »

will all the parkways eventually become interstates?
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ibthebigd

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2020, 04:54:03 PM »

Might as well extend it to I-75 while they are at it

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hbelkins

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2020, 04:55:13 PM »

will all the parkways eventually become interstates?

Doubtful. I don't foresee the Mountain Parkway getting an interstate designation. Even with the ongoing four-laning, there will be some substandard exits that really aren't worth spending the money on to bring them up to standards. Plus, I don't think the new four-lane portions fully meet current interstate standards.

And the Daniel Boone Hal Rogers Parkway is a super-2 and they've added at-grades along the route since the tolls were removed, so it's a big "no" for that route.

The signs along the Audubon Parkway designating it as a future I-69 spur have long since been removed.
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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2020, 05:42:51 PM »

 :clap: Finally seeing this one become reality  :clap:

I will say that I think the Bluegrass Parkway has the best chance of being the next interstate upgrade, likely an odd I-x65. I think the Cumberland will get 365 and (if upgraded) the Bluegrass 765 1) since those numbers are not in use anywhere else, 2) since I-565 was the original proposal for the Natcher upgrade to I-165,  and 3) it would put the odd I-x65s in increasing order as you go north on I-65 (I-165 exit 20, I-365 exit 43, I-765 exit 93). This assuming they don't make the transpark connector a 3di.

On a related note, I haven't heard much from the I-569 designation for the WK lately, and that was designated 1 and a half years ago.
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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2020, 05:57:51 PM »

I'm not surprised that the Cumberland Parkway will finally becoming an I-x65. I'd also prefer making it Interstate 365, since one doesn't exist yet. As for the Bluegrass Parkway, I'd leave it as KY 9002, unless Kentucky wants to make like Texas and North Carolina and make every limited access highway an Interstate.
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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2020, 06:01:14 PM »

I'm not surprised that the Cumberland Parkway will finally becoming an I-x65. I'd also prefer making it Interstate 365, since one doesn't exist yet. As for the Bluegrass Parkway, I'd leave it as KY 9002, unless Kentucky wants to make like Texas and North Carolina and make every limited access highway an Interstate.

What's wrong with what North Carolina and Texas are doing? I support their new Interstates, although I would prefer that Texas work on corridors other than what they're working on now (US 287 and Austin-Houston instead of I-14).
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silverback1065

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2020, 08:35:50 PM »

I'm not surprised that the Cumberland Parkway will finally becoming an I-x65. I'd also prefer making it Interstate 365, since one doesn't exist yet. As for the Bluegrass Parkway, I'd leave it as KY 9002, unless Kentucky wants to make like Texas and North Carolina and make every limited access highway an Interstate.

What's wrong with what North Carolina and Texas are doing? I support their new Interstates, although I would prefer that Texas work on corridors other than what they're working on now (US 287 and Austin-Houston instead of I-14).
neither state knows how to number their highways
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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2020, 09:11:20 PM »

They might as well make the Audubon I-369 while they're at it.
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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2020, 09:42:14 PM »

unless Kentucky wants to make like Texas and North Carolina and make every limited access highway an Interstate.
Texas and North Carolina are no where close to having plans to make every limited access highway an interstate.
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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2020, 10:23:11 PM »

I'm not surprised that the Cumberland Parkway will finally becoming an I-x65. I'd also prefer making it Interstate 365, since one doesn't exist yet. As for the Bluegrass Parkway, I'd leave it as KY 9002, unless Kentucky wants to make like Texas and North Carolina and make every limited access highway an Interstate.

What's wrong with what North Carolina and Texas are doing? I support their new Interstates, although I would prefer that Texas work on corridors other than what they're working on now (US 287 and Austin-Houston instead of I-14).
I think you  overthink I-14. I-14 might get extended as far as SH-6 or maybe I-45.  I doubt even that. Sure there is a coalition pushing for SEVERAL so-called corridors. I-14 was built to make sure the Fort Hood community had interstate access. It helps in future BRACC type reorganizations and it helps the attitude of the brass who passed through on their way up.  I-14 is the Texas equivalent to the new Barksdale AFB main gate.  Just a way to cozy up to the military bases.

I agree that SH-114 and US287 need to be upgraded all the way to Amarillo.  (Southlake to Decatur, to Amarillo.)

As to Austin to Houston, that will happen. It may not get an Interstate badge, but it will be 3x3 on much of it. 2x2 on other parts. Likely this will complete before I-69/369 to Texarkana or the Louisiana State Line.

As to I-69 and its children, this was just short of mandated by the US congress. At worst, building I-69 is a way for TXDOT to get away with spending money to build (needed) freeways without the budget hawks and freeway opponents throwing fits. Another way to look at it it is making Houston like Dallas (and to a lesser level San Antonio and Fort Worth) be a three Interstate city.  Texarkana has some of that brag coming too.

As to every freeway must be an Interstate in Texas????? SH288 Houston south. US-75 Dallas North (That has been 100% controlled access since the mid-1990's.) SH183, 114. and 121 (Some admittedly is toll) Large swatches of SH-6. Parts of US-290.  Various toll roads operated by HCTRA, NTTA, and TXDOT. AND FM1760 in Texas City

Until I-14 and I-69/I-2 there had not been a new interstate in Texas since interstate 27 and Interstate 44 in the seventies.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 10:26:52 PM by bwana39 »
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Finrod

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2020, 11:48:28 PM »

It doesn't mean it won't become I-66 eventually-- after all, I-495 in North Carolina became I-87, and it wouldn't surprise me if the idea of making I-165 be I-67 didn't come around again at some point in the future.
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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2020, 12:05:00 AM »

It doesn't mean it won't become I-66 eventually-- after all, I-495 in North Carolina became I-87, and it wouldn't surprise me if the idea of making I-165 be I-67 didn't come around again at some point in the future.

I-66 certainly won't be around in the foreseeable future by any means, as there is likely plenty of new terrain route that'll need to be built, not to mention it will require multiple states to get on board. I think if there were a 2di down there, it would have a number in the 40s or 50s, not 66. (If I need explain I will).
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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2020, 12:13:38 AM »

It doesn't mean it won't become I-66 eventually-- after all, I-495 in North Carolina became I-87, and it wouldn't surprise me if the idea of making I-165 be I-67 didn't come around again at some point in the future.
The concept of a Raleigh-Norfolk corridor had long existed before I-495 was designated - I-495 was a piece of it - but it had always been intended to be extended in the future, and just a few years later, was replaced with I-87. The majority of the US-64 / US-17 corridor is built out to freeway standards, only around 50 miles of non-limited-access highway remain between the Virginia state line and Williamston, excluding bypasses.

"I-44" - ultimately I-87 - was in the planning before I-495 was designated.

I-66 between Somerset and Strasburg, VA? Not likely.
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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2020, 12:19:47 AM »

It doesn't mean it won't become I-66 eventually-- after all, I-495 in North Carolina became I-87, and it wouldn't surprise me if the idea of making I-165 be I-67 didn't come around again at some point in the future.
The concept of a Raleigh-Norfolk corridor had long existed before I-495 was designated - I-495 was a piece of it - but it had always been intended to be extended in the future, and just a few years later, was replaced with I-87. The majority of the US-64 / US-17 corridor is built out to freeway standards, only around 50 miles of non-limited-access highway remain between the Virginia state line and Williamston, excluding bypasses.

"I-44" - ultimately I-87 - was in the planning before I-495 was designated.

I-66 between Somerset and Strasburg, VA? Not likely.

A 200 mile route, much of which constructed to some expressway standard, that connects major metropolitan areas vs. A 400+ mile route that goes through the middle of nowhere on new terrain and the largest city it may go through is less than 50,000 people in city proper population.

I agree, completely different circumstances.
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abqtraveler

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2020, 01:00:46 AM »



The signs along the Audubon Parkway designating it as a future I-69 spur have long since been removed.

The Future I-69 Spur signs may be gone from the Audubon, but federal legislation signed in 2008 that designates the Audubon as a future interstate remains in place. The main obstacle to signing the Audubon as an interstate is the connection with I-69. Progress on the Ohio River Bridge (I-69 ORX) and its approaches, which includes an interchange with the Audubon, has stalled due to the ongoing fight over the future of the US-41 bridges once the tolled I-69 bridge opens.

You won't see anything done with the Audubon until the I-69 ORX is built.
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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2020, 04:00:14 PM »

Rather than 3d this and 3d that changing over some of these parkways, I think that they should have put together a scenario where they could have linked the Audubon, Green River, and Cumberland Parkways into one 2d (46-62 are available and would fit the grid).  They could then extend the Cumberland to I-75, and it would be a contiguous route and could be kind of a Nashville/Louisville bypass to anyone headed SE towards Knoxville, Charlotte, etc. 

As much as it might be neat to see, I don't see an improvement of the Hal Rogers or the US25E/US58 corridor to interstate standards to extend the route unless the federal government gets as generous as they did with the banks back in 2008/2009.
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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2020, 05:57:17 PM »

Does anyone really call the Natcher Parkeay the Green River Parkway? 
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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2020, 01:23:13 AM »

Rather than 3d this and 3d that changing over some of these parkways, I think that they should have put together a scenario where they could have linked the Audubon, Green River, and Cumberland Parkways into one 2d (46-62 are available and would fit the grid).  They could then extend the Cumberland to I-75, and it would be a contiguous route and could be kind of a Nashville/Louisville bypass to anyone headed SE towards Knoxville, Charlotte, etc. 

As much as it might be neat to see, I don't see an improvement of the Hal Rogers or the US25E/US58 corridor to interstate standards to extend the route unless the federal government gets as generous as they did with the banks back in 2008/2009.

Actually,  I'm somewhat surprised that Owensboro boosters didn't push for I-63 for the combination Natcher/US 60/Audubon corridor -- once they got the message that IN interests weren't planning on pushing terribly hard for a I-67 along US 231.   If they'd dropped it in McConnell's lap he probably would have gone for it.  Oh well -- they snoozed, they lost! 

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2020, 03:45:53 PM »

Does anyone really call the Natcher Parkeay the Green River Parkway?
Probably not, but I've been around since when the Natcher (Green River) was originally built (matter of fact Pennyrile and Audubon as well), and at lot of times I still refer to them by the original name.
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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2020, 03:50:03 PM »

Rather than 3d this and 3d that changing over some of these parkways, I think that they should have put together a scenario where they could have linked the Audubon, Green River, and Cumberland Parkways into one 2d (46-62 are available and would fit the grid).  They could then extend the Cumberland to I-75, and it would be a contiguous route and could be kind of a Nashville/Louisville bypass to anyone headed SE towards Knoxville, Charlotte, etc. 

As much as it might be neat to see, I don't see an improvement of the Hal Rogers or the US25E/US58 corridor to interstate standards to extend the route unless the federal government gets as generous as they did with the banks back in 2008/2009.

Actually,  I'm somewhat surprised that Owensboro boosters didn't push for I-63 for the combination Natcher/US 60/Audubon corridor -- once they got the message that IN interests weren't planning on pushing terribly hard for a I-67 along US 231.   If they'd dropped it in McConnell's lap he probably would have gone for it.  Oh well -- they snoozed, they lost!

That's a decent idea that they missed.  Although I would have loved an extension going straight down to hook into I-840 to make a bypass of Nashville for I-65 travelers.  I love Nashville, but hate driving through it due to the traffic and no good north/south bypass of the metro.
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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2020, 04:06:40 PM »

Rather than 3d this and 3d that changing over some of these parkways, I think that they should have put together a scenario where they could have linked the Audubon, Green River, and Cumberland Parkways into one 2d (46-62 are available and would fit the grid).  They could then extend the Cumberland to I-75, and it would be a contiguous route and could be kind of a Nashville/Louisville bypass to anyone headed SE towards Knoxville, Charlotte, etc. 

As much as it might be neat to see, I don't see an improvement of the Hal Rogers or the US25E/US58 corridor to interstate standards to extend the route unless the federal government gets as generous as they did with the banks back in 2008/2009.

Actually,  I'm somewhat surprised that Owensboro boosters didn't push for I-63 for the combination Natcher/US 60/Audubon corridor -- once they got the message that IN interests weren't planning on pushing terribly hard for a I-67 along US 231.   If they'd dropped it in McConnell's lap he probably would have gone for it.  Oh well -- they snoozed, they lost!

That's a decent idea that they missed.  Although I would have loved an extension going straight down to hook into I-840 to make a bypass of Nashville for I-65 travelers.  I love Nashville, but hate driving through it due to the traffic and no good north/south bypass of the metro.

if they finished 840 you would have your wish!
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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2020, 05:28:28 PM »

Rather than 3d this and 3d that changing over some of these parkways, I think that they should have put together a scenario where they could have linked the Audubon, Green River, and Cumberland Parkways into one 2d (46-62 are available and would fit the grid).  They could then extend the Cumberland to I-75, and it would be a contiguous route and could be kind of a Nashville/Louisville bypass to anyone headed SE towards Knoxville, Charlotte, etc. 

As much as it might be neat to see, I don't see an improvement of the Hal Rogers or the US25E/US58 corridor to interstate standards to extend the route unless the federal government gets as generous as they did with the banks back in 2008/2009.

Actually,  I'm somewhat surprised that Owensboro boosters didn't push for I-63 for the combination Natcher/US 60/Audubon corridor -- once they got the message that IN interests weren't planning on pushing terribly hard for a I-67 along US 231.   If they'd dropped it in McConnell's lap he probably would have gone for it.  Oh well -- they snoozed, they lost!

That's a decent idea that they missed.  Although I would have loved an extension going straight down to hook into I-840 to make a bypass of Nashville for I-65 travelers.  I love Nashville, but hate driving through it due to the traffic and no good north/south bypass of the metro.

if they finished 840 you would have your wish!

I've iterated before that an extension north from the east terminus of I-840 roughly along US 231 and tying directly into the Natcher stub SE of I-65 would make a really nice Nashville metro bypass for N-S I-65 traffic.  Would hardly be a corridor that would address needs other than that bypass, however; I-24/169/69 is a more direct Nashville-Evansville route.  More a relief route than anything else.   But the concept of a combination Cumberland/Natcher/Audubon even-numbered 2 di is intriguing as well; but until plans are finalized for a Somerset-to-I-75 segment are finalized, the x65's on Cumberland and Natcher would function fine as placeholders.  Personally, I'd like to see something like I-54 as the ultimate number for such a corridor.   
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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2020, 07:29:19 PM »

Why is KYTC relying on Congress for the Interstate designation rather than submitting a request to AASHTO itself?
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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2020, 07:35:54 PM »

Don’t have to worry about meeting all of AASHTO’s criteria.
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