Should The New Jersey Turnpike Standardize BGS and Exit Signs?

[Alps]

On the contrary, the NJ Turnpike Authority tries to be the best, and they do a pretty good job of it. I agree the signs should be standardized, but the rest of the country would do well to imitate the NJ Turnpike.

So you're suggesting the other 49 states should apply a standard that converges with New Jersey's? Which part do you think they "do a pretty good job of?" In what way is their signage superior compared to the standard used everywhere else?

It's totally not a standard anyone else should follow. They do things their own way because it works for them. And I really can't argue whether that's good or bad, because they do indeed have a unique traffic mix and unique conditions (widely spaced exits, tolls, different roadways and spurs), and managing a very few roadways with specialized conditions is a lot different than developing standards for national roadways with a lot of different conditions. State agencies need to adopt broad standards, whereas individual toll agencies can be much more specific. For the Turnpike conditions, they not only do a good job, but when competent engineers point out ways they can do better, yes it takes a lot of discussion, but ultimately they do tend to improve and go in the right direction. I would say that other toll agencies would do well to mimic the Turnpike Authority's procedures if not the exact signing policies.

[SignBridge]

(Chuckle!) That's what I was trying to say! Other states would do well to mimic the NJ Turnpike Authority's quality of road operation, not specifically the sign system.

[tollboothrob]

I say standardize upon replacement, unless there's some special need for NJ to do things differently. I know road geeks tend to favor the unique signs, but I say out with the weird arrows, mechanical signs, neon VMS, etc. - it just looks like NJ is trying too hard to be different.

The neon signs (referred to as RSA's, or Reduce Speed Ahead signs, at the Authority) were installed back in the 1960's and state of the art for the time. Now they're so old it's impossible to find replacement parts for them, and that's why most of them only work sporadically. In fact, when a trooper or Turnpike employee asks us to light one up, they usually say, "light any WORKING RSAs." They are now being replaced with full-color overhead VMS boards and new variable speed limit signs.

IMHO, the unique exit signage doesn't have a specific useful intent, just that it's unique. Personally, I prefer it to stay that way. I have especially always been impressed with how well the Northern Mixing Bowl (convergence of inner/outer car and truck lanes, eastern/western spurs and Hudson Bay extension) works, with such a sheer volume of vehicles and alignments coming together and moving seamlessly between themselves. The inner/outer design is particularily helpful, IMO, allowing for traffic flow in the event of accidents, congestion, construction, etc. Similar to this is the signage allowing closure of the eastern/western spurs, which works much the same way. We've done this before during construction or during events at the Meadowlands for traffic control, for example.

I apologize if I repeated anything in this post I or someone else already discussed. To summarize, I agree 100% with what Alp said. These designs wouldn't be practical everywhere, but definitely works for such a congested corridor.

[Alps]

The neon signs (referred to as RSA's, or Reduce Speed Ahead signs, at the Authority) were installed back in the 1960's and state of the art for the time. Now they're so old it's impossible to find replacement parts for them, and that's why most of them only work sporadically. In fact, when a trooper or Turnpike employee asks us to light one up, they usually say, "light any WORKING RSAs."

But I like knowing when there is RED.

[tollboothrob]

But I like knowing when there is RED.

My favorite is when they just flash "SPEED", especially in snow and ice... "I mean it, Mr. Trooper, sir, the sign told me to!" Most of the speed limit signs don't work, anyway... lol

I think it's cool too how they light up everything in the surrounding landscape at night... it's interesting, to me at least.

[roadman65]

 I think mileage signs are needed post interchange and some interchanges should add or drop control cities.  All of exits south of Exit 7 (except Exit 5) have interchanges along I-295.  Yet there are different control cities on I-295.  For examlple NJ 73 is signed Berlin- Tacony Bridge on I-295 and on the NJT it is signed Philadelphia- Camden.

On Exit 3 Woodbury should be dropped as NJ 168 does not go there and Bellmawr should be added instead.

On Exit 2- Glassboro needs to be added on its signs.  Swedesboro and Chester are fine and do not need dropping. 

Exit 11 - NB should have Albany, NY used as a control Point for GSP NB.

Other than this the signs should stay the same and use the new style of pull through listed on another post.

[akotchi]

Exit 5 also has an interchange with I-295.

I don't really have a problem with the control cities being different on the two roadways.  The differences in control cities to me reflect the different characters of the roadways.  The Turnpike's exits are more regional because there are fewer of them.  I-295 has more exits and more different ways (in some cases more direct) to get to the same places.

The prime example for me is that Turnpike Exit 3 is the only way to exit the Turnpike and get to Philadelphia and Camden, while I-295 has a group of exits (most noteworthy I-76) to get to the same places.

[Alps]

I think mileage signs are needed post interchange and some interchanges should add or drop control cities.  All of exits south of Exit 7 (except Exit 5) have interchanges along I-295.  Yet there are different control cities on I-295.  For examlple NJ 73 is signed Berlin- Tacony Bridge on I-295 and on the NJT it is signed Philadelphia- Camden.

Well, sure, there are multiple Philly/Camden exits on I-295. I'm fine with this.

On Exit 3 Woodbury should be dropped as NJ 168 does not go there and Bellmawr should be added instead.

Yes and no - Bellmawr would probably be added if Benigno Boulevard ties in directly to Int 3 (which may never happen), but what other exit do you use for Woodbury? Then again, same could be said for Cherry Hill. That's the problem with so few exits.

On Exit 2- Glassboro needs to be added on its signs.  Swedesboro and Chester are fine and do not need dropping.  

Exit 11 - NB should have Albany, NY used as a control Point for GSP NB.

Other than this the signs should stay the same and use the new style of pull through listed on another post.

[roadman65]

I think mileage signs are needed post interchange and some interchanges should add or drop control cities.  All of exits south of Exit 7 (except Exit 5) have interchanges along I-295.  Yet there are different control cities on I-295.  For examlple NJ 73 is signed Berlin- Tacony Bridge on I-295 and on the NJT it is signed Philadelphia- Camden.

Well, sure, there are multiple Philly/Camden exits on I-295. I'm fine with this.

On Exit 3 Woodbury should be dropped as NJ 168 does not go there and Bellmawr should be added instead.

Yes and no - Bellmawr would probably be added if Benigno Boulevard ties in directly to Int 3 (which may never happen), but what other exit do you use for Woodbury? Then again, same could be said for Cherry Hill. That's the problem with so few exits.

On Exit 2- Glassboro needs to be added on its signs.  Swedesboro and Chester are fine and do not need dropping. 

Exit 11 - NB should have Albany, NY used as a control Point for GSP NB.

Other than this the signs should stay the same and use the new style of pull through listed on another post.

The point is you cannot get to them all!

Exit 5 also has an interchange with I-295.

I don't really have a problem with the control cities being different on the two roadways.  The differences in control cities to me reflect the different characters of the roadways.  The Turnpike's exits are more regional because there are fewer of them.  I-295 has more exits and more different ways (in some cases more direct) to get to the same places.

The prime example for me is that Turnpike Exit 3 is the only way to exit the Turnpike and get to Philadelphia and Camden, while I-295 has a group of exits (most noteworthy I-76) to get to the same places.

Exit 5 has the same cities on both roadways.  Yes, both highways have different characteristics and the signs show that effect!  The Turnpike has fewer interchanges and needs to be regional while I-295 has many other exits for Camden and Philadelphia, so local places can be used there unlike the NJT!