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Author Topic: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)  (Read 52544 times)

jay8g

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2022, 03:00:27 AM »

Welcome back to the forum!

Do you remember where you saw those original plans? I had never heard that. I'm guessing the plan would have been to replace the 1st Ave S Bridge whenever that southerly extension took place. And I doubt 509 would have ended prematurely in Burien if the freeway was continuous all the way into Seattle, as the demand for that route would have certainly been much higher without the (original) bottleneck at the 1st Ave S Bridge and an elevated freeway along East Marginal.

I had seen it on an article about the RH Thompson freeway that was once proposed along Seattle’s eastern edge. In addition to the continuous freeway that was once proposed, there was a huge system interchange that was on the books for where SR 99 departed from SR 509 that was never built because the gap in the freeway never was built. The original interchange dud have direct ramps leading from SR 99/509 to Highland Park way but that was rebuilt to its current configuration in the mid to late 1990’s

I hadn't heard of that either, but it certainly would have made sense. There were also plans to extend the double-deck section of I-90 to the AWV (the "Connecticut Street Viaduct"), which is probably the main reason that small double-deck section exists.

As far as the south end goes, WSDOT to this day still owns right-of-way going all the way to this point on SR 516 where the SR 509 extension was originally supposed to go. I'm not sure what the plan was south of there.
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jakeroot

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2022, 04:17:13 AM »

As far as the south end goes, WSDOT to this day still owns right-of-way going all the way to this point on SR 516 where the SR 509 extension was originally supposed to go. I'm not sure what the plan was south of there.

I've long wondered the same thing. I have to assume the plan was to eventually link it up with I-5, but I cannot identify any particular stretch where it would have clearly interchanged. No stubs, extra-wide ROW, etc.

I find it extremely hard to believe that they built 509 without any plans of where it was going, so there must be some kind of plan. Unpublished on the internet, of course... :-|

ErmineNotyours

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #77 on: November 01, 2022, 01:29:37 AM »

As far as the south end goes, WSDOT to this day still owns right-of-way going all the way to this point on SR 516 where the SR 509 extension was originally supposed to go. I'm not sure what the plan was south of there.

I was asked this before, and I still have a 1977 Thomas Bros. map that shows one possible answer.

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jakeroot

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #78 on: November 01, 2022, 03:09:43 AM »

Thanks Arthur.

My gut told me it would go through the Midway Landfill. Not sure what the state of the landfill was back then, though.

Bruce

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #79 on: November 01, 2022, 03:21:09 AM »

Thanks Arthur.

My gut told me it would go through the Midway Landfill. Not sure what the state of the landfill was back then, though.

Looks like it was a gravel quarry until the 1960s and then a landfill until 1983. Now a Superfund site.
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jakeroot

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #80 on: November 01, 2022, 08:03:26 AM »

Thanks Arthur.

My gut told me it would go through the Midway Landfill. Not sure what the state of the landfill was back then, though.

Looks like it was a gravel quarry until the 1960s and then a landfill until 1983. Now a Superfund site.

smh...of course it's a super-fund site. And people wonder why it's not going to be a light rail maintenance yard.

rte66man

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #81 on: November 22, 2022, 08:22:35 AM »

https://www.king5.com/article/traffic/traffic-news/exclusive-new-expressway-puyallup-port-of-tacoma/281-cd8a2f74-afbb-455a-9c7f-713c7cde18e8

Quote
'Once-in-a-lifetime project' will connect Puyallup to Port of Tacoma
It’s a project that’s been talked about for decades, a much-needed cure to the congestion from semis going to and from the Port of Tacoma.

Author: Kristin Goodwillie
Published: 8:34 AM PST November 21, 2022
Updated: 6:55 PM PST November 21, 2022

PUYALLUP, Wash. – A lot can happen in three decades. Cities change and neighbors come and go. But Fife resident Warren Walsborn and his family stayed.

“Probably about three or four years after I was here, then I started getting notices that we’re going to take your property,”  Walsborn said.

Twenty-five years ago, the Washington State Department of Transportation (WSDOT) was acquiring land for a new expressway project connecting I-5 to the Port of Tacoma. They initially wanted Walsborn’s land, but he did not sell. He’s now one of the only houses still standing on his street.

“It’s been a rollercoaster of, 'Do I have to move? Can I stay? Where do I go?'" Walsborn said.

The new expressway will be close to his home, but he can stay put. Construction began this summer to alleviate the semi-congestion butting up to his backyard in Fife. Truck traffic has been a problem for years. The vision of this connector talked about for decades.

“There was a gap in time primarily through the latter part of the ’70s and ’80s where very little happened,”  said John White, program administrator for the Puget Sound Gateway Program.

The early lack of money from the legislature stalled this project, but since getting funding in 2015, WSDOT has been working to get it finished.

“When you see these corridors open up, it will transform things for these communities that surround the missing links,”  White said.

The project will connect Highway 167 where it currently ends in Puyallup to I-5 in Fife and over to the Port of Tacoma. It will be about 4 miles of highway to get to I-5 in Fife. The highway will go through fields that are currently farmland and over 20th Street before connecting to I-5 and crossing over the interstate and Pacific Highway.

From there, it will form into a "diverging diamond" interchange which allows vehicles to enter and exit the highway more easily,  ending with another 2 miles to the Port of Tacoma.

“This is one of those once-in-a-lifetime projects," said Tom Slimak, the WSDOT project engineer:

WSDOT is also creating miles of biking and walking trails and investing in climate resiliency.

“So we have over 150 acres of wetland mitigation, stream creation and habitat creation that we're doing that we call a Hylebos Restoration Program,”  Slimak said.

The Fife expressway will be completed in 2026. The entire project is on track to be completed in 2028. White said the impact tonFife will be transformative.

The expressway will have tolls, which WSDOT said will be based on the time of day. You’ll pay more during high peak times and less when traffic is low. The state legislature decides on tolls.

In the last 20 years, WSDOT has acquired 150 pieces of land and portions of 50 parcels. They still need to acquire eight full pieces of land and eight partial acquisitions.
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jakeroot

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #82 on: January 27, 2023, 07:29:35 AM »

Some new details from the current online open house.

https://engage.wsdot.wa.gov/sr167completionproject/

First, unless every diagram is wrong, the “509 Spur”  moniker is being dropped, and the whole freeway will be called 167. So, exiting I-5 southbound, you can now stay left towards “NORTH, Puyallup” , or “SOUTH, Tacoma” . Brilliant.

Second, Valley Ave is going to be a roundabout. Dogbone design. The southerly ramps will be constructed in the future.

Third, the interchange at Meridian will now be a DDI. With what appears to be a very complicated southern intersection.

Fourth, the intersection at Alexander Ave is being redesigned into a single non-split intersection. Based on the roadway layout, it seems WSDOT is giving up on building any overpass here anytime soon.

Here is a video, which many of you will find very interesting:

jay8g

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #83 on: January 29, 2023, 03:05:09 AM »

Something else that's interesting, from the bottom of the "What to Expect" page:
Quote
Temporary Orange Striping

By spring 2023, travelers on I-5 will experience new, temporary orange lane lines that identify construction work zones. The orange striping is a new strategy to help travelers track lane shifts and heighten driver awareness traveling through work zones. When driving through an area with orange striping, drivers should follow the orange lane markers and remain aware of active work zones.

Has this been used anywhere else in Washington? I'm not aware of any other projects using European-style orange temporary markings.
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jakeroot

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #84 on: January 29, 2023, 07:35:08 AM »

Yeah, I saw that too. I wonder what their strategy will be, I’ve heard orange markings are near impossible to see in the dark. Most freeways don’t have any overhead lighting, so the markings need to be very reflective. I think it’s why white is usually best for road markings.

Revive 755

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #85 on: January 29, 2023, 11:00:32 PM »

Something else that's interesting, from the bottom of the "What to Expect" page:
Quote
Temporary Orange Striping

By spring 2023, travelers on I-5 will experience new, temporary orange lane lines that identify construction work zones. The orange striping is a new strategy to help travelers track lane shifts and heighten driver awareness traveling through work zones. When driving through an area with orange striping, drivers should follow the orange lane markers and remain aware of active work zones.

Has this been used anywhere else in Washington? I'm not aware of any other projects using European-style orange temporary markings.

Not Washington, but Wisconsin used them.  Streetview of orange markings on I-94.

Searching through the listings on the MUTCD website, it appears there may also be projects in Kentucky using the orange markings and somewhere under the jurisdiction of the North Texas Tollway Authority.
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Bruce

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #86 on: January 30, 2023, 12:19:38 AM »

Yeah, I saw that too. I wonder what their strategy will be, I’ve heard orange markings are near impossible to see in the dark. Most freeways don’t have any overhead lighting, so the markings need to be very reflective. I think it’s why white is usually best for road markings.

I-5 got shifted and restriped in Everett recently, but it was just the normal white paint. It's pretty awful, on par with the Mountlake Terrace section that I loathe so much.
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ErmineNotyours

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stevashe

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #88 on: January 30, 2023, 12:32:01 PM »

First, unless every diagram is wrong, the “509 Spur”  moniker is being dropped, and the whole freeway will be called 167. So, exiting I-5 southbound, you can now stay left towards “NORTH, Puyallup” , or “SOUTH, Tacoma” . Brilliant.

Keeping it 167 the whole way would certainly be less confusing from a numbering standpoint, but the cardinal directions would definitely be rather nonsensical! I almost wonder if WSDOT would simply drop the directions altogether in this section and rely solely on control cities if they do go with 167.

I did manage to find one place where 509 Spur is still shown, on a sign in the I-5/SR 167 DDI concept image:



Unfortunately, I think it's more likely that this sign is outdated than all the other diagrams being incorrect.

Yeah, I saw that too. I wonder what their strategy will be, I’ve heard orange markings are near impossible to see in the dark. Most freeways don’t have any overhead lighting, so the markings need to be very reflective. I think it’s why white is usually best for road markings.

I-5 got shifted and restriped in Everett recently, but it was just the normal white paint. It's pretty awful, on par with the Mountlake Terrace section that I loathe so much.

I drove the section of SR 167 north where the HOV lane was just added from Sumner to Puyallup last year while it had temp striping in the dark while it was raining. Couldn't see the lane lines AT ALL until they were maybe 20 feet from me (i.e. I could see one dash half the time and nothing at all the other half). Good thing they also had reflectors or I'd have been driving blind!
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Evan_Th

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #89 on: February 07, 2023, 02:37:05 PM »

First, unless every diagram is wrong, the “509 Spur”  moniker is being dropped, and the whole freeway will be called 167. So, exiting I-5 southbound, you can now stay left towards “NORTH, Puyallup” , or “SOUTH, Tacoma” . Brilliant.

Keeping it 167 the whole way would certainly be less confusing from a numbering standpoint, but the cardinal directions would definitely be rather nonsensical! I almost wonder if WSDOT would simply drop the directions altogether in this section and rely solely on control cities if they do go with 167.


This's why I still support ending SR 167 at the 410 junction, and numbering the new freeway as an extension of 410.
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jakeroot

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #90 on: February 07, 2023, 05:56:51 PM »

First, unless every diagram is wrong, the “509 Spur”  moniker is being dropped, and the whole freeway will be called 167. So, exiting I-5 southbound, you can now stay left towards “NORTH, Puyallup” , or “SOUTH, Tacoma” . Brilliant.

Keeping it 167 the whole way would certainly be less confusing from a numbering standpoint, but the cardinal directions would definitely be rather nonsensical! I almost wonder if WSDOT would simply drop the directions altogether in this section and rely solely on control cities if they do go with 167.


This's why I still support ending SR 167 at the 410 junction, and numbering the new freeway as an extension of 410.

This always seemed most logical to me. I believe the only reason WSDOT is sticking with 167 is because it has always been planned as 167.

I do wonder what the plan is for River Road once 167 moves to the new freeway. I hope it's not gonna be some damn spur. Maybe they plan to move 410 to River Road  :-D.

Bruce

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #91 on: February 17, 2023, 12:14:50 AM »

The sign plans for SR 509 Stage 1B seem to imply that the new tollway will be signed as just "24th Avenue" instead of SR 509 until the next stage is done.



FWIW, the SR 167 sign plans still show SR 509 Spur around the Port of Tacoma.
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jakeroot

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #92 on: February 17, 2023, 01:40:10 AM »

Signing it as simply "24th" does make a lot more sense, although I am admittedly hoping for some BGSs with green-outs before the 509 is totally finished.

I suspect the change from 509 Spur to 167 in Tacoma was quite recent, documents still showed "509 Spur" until quite recently. These sign plans would be a couple years old.

Bruce

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #93 on: May 08, 2023, 10:43:26 PM »

A recent flyover video of Sound Transit's Federal Way Link Extension, which includes footage of the SR 509 project:

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stevashe

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #94 on: June 13, 2023, 12:58:12 AM »

Something else that's interesting, from the bottom of the "What to Expect" page:
Quote
Temporary Orange Striping

By spring 2023, travelers on I-5 will experience new, temporary orange lane lines that identify construction work zones. The orange striping is a new strategy to help travelers track lane shifts and heighten driver awareness traveling through work zones. When driving through an area with orange striping, drivers should follow the orange lane markers and remain aware of active work zones.

Has this been used anywhere else in Washington? I'm not aware of any other projects using European-style orange temporary markings.

Yeah, I saw that too. I wonder what their strategy will be, I’ve heard orange markings are near impossible to see in the dark. Most freeways don’t have any overhead lighting, so the markings need to be very reflective. I think it’s why white is usually best for road markings.

The orange markings are now in! Interestingly, they are in addition to the regular white dashed lines, striped after the white dashes similar to how black contrast stripes are sometimes placed on light colored pavement.


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jakeroot

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #95 on: June 13, 2023, 04:59:16 AM »

Yikes, those don't seem like they are going to be useful at all. They honestly don't look radically different than some yellow lines.

I think they need to be more in-your-face. Something like Ontario, where everything is orange. Cattle chute roadways with tiny shoulders, narrowed lanes...these are not exclusive to construction zones anymore (eg. parts of the new northbound 167 with the HOV lane). Besides the "road work ahead" sign, I'm not sure many people even know they are in work zones sometimes. These orange markings are not impactful enough.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2023, 09:02:03 AM by jakeroot »
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Rothman

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #96 on: June 13, 2023, 06:38:57 AM »

Meh.  Given South Carolina's somewhat recent experience, cattle chutes seem like a safety concern in of themselves.
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Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

jakeroot

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #97 on: July 18, 2023, 07:22:58 AM »

Quite a lot of construction is now progressing on the stretch of the 509 Spur (or is it 167?) between I-5 and [actual] 509 in Fife (see whole album):


A temporary channel for Hylebos Creek in Fife by Washington State Dept of Transportation, on Flickr


More, more and more dirt by Washington State Dept of Transportation, on Flickr
« Last Edit: July 18, 2023, 07:35:45 AM by jakeroot »
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jakeroot

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Re: Puget Sound Gateway Program (WA-167 and WA-509 Extensions)
« Reply #98 on: October 08, 2023, 01:11:30 AM »

WSDOT posted this photo (below) to their Flickr with an interesting description:

Quote from: WSDOT on Flickr
You may also notice, directly to the left of the overpass, is a closed off tunnel. That tunnel was a city of SeaTac project that is a forward compatible feature for a possible future direct link to Sea-Tac Airport.

I had always wondered what the point of that tunnel was, and now we know. I guess it would be for a one-way ramp connection from the future southern Airport Expressway.


SR 509 future connection to 24th Avenue South in SeaTac, WA by Washington State Dept of Transportation, on Flickr

 


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