Random Thoughts

[Molandfreak]

I believe the workaround when I was in high school band was to have enough original copies on hand to supply the students, but make the copies anyway to allow the students to write in them. It isn't as lucrative for the original composer, but nowadays there are also websites where you can just download full sheet music and print as many copies as you want.

There are other reasons to copy or scan sheet music, namely to transform them into a 7x5.5" marching format. I had done this in college with a Sousa march which was already in the public domain.

[Scott5114]

But that wouldn't stop the copyright holder from suing the school.

One thing that I have learned from my current job is that the average person has zero understanding of or respect for copyright law. If a copyright holder actually sues a school over photocopying a score, the negative publicity they would receive for that would probably put them out of business. It's the moral equivalent of beating up an orphan and stealing their lunch money because they spelled your name wrong.

I mean Disney went after a daycare for using characters on the wall, which Universal took full advantage of by promoting their properties.

Most daycares are for-profit businesses.

[Roadgeekteen]

But that wouldn't stop the copyright holder from suing the school.

One thing that I have learned from my current job is that the average person has zero understanding of or respect for copyright law. If a copyright holder actually sues a school over photocopying a score, the negative publicity they would receive for that would probably put them out of business. It's the moral equivalent of beating up an orphan and stealing their lunch money because they spelled your name wrong.

I mean Disney went after a daycare for using characters on the wall, which Universal took full advantage of by promoting their properties.

Most daycares are for-profit businesses.

Well TIL. And also yikes, I'm all for capitalism (sort of), but I feel like daycares should be non profit, run by a community or religious organization, and not for profit. And apparently non profit daycares do provide better care.

https://www.the74million.org/zero2eight/against-for-profit-child-care-chains/

[Scott5114]

But that wouldn't stop the copyright holder from suing the school.

One thing that I have learned from my current job is that the average person has zero understanding of or respect for copyright law. If a copyright holder actually sues a school over photocopying a score, the negative publicity they would receive for that would probably put them out of business. It's the moral equivalent of beating up an orphan and stealing their lunch money because they spelled your name wrong.

I mean Disney went after a daycare for using characters on the wall, which Universal took full advantage of by promoting their properties.

Most daycares are for-profit businesses.

Well TIL. And also yikes, I'm all for capitalism (sort of), but I feel like daycares should be non profit, run by a community or religious organization, and not for profit. And apparently non profit daycares do provide better care.

https://www.the74million.org/zero2eight/against-for-profit-child-care-chains/

@kphoger has personal experience here, so I'll defer to him on this if he wants to offer his insight.

[kphoger]

Most daycares are for-profit businesses.

Well TIL. And also yikes, I'm all for capitalism (sort of), but I feel like daycares should be non profit, run by a community or religious organization, and not for profit.

@kphoger has personal experience here, so I'll defer to him on this if he wants to offer his insight.

Yes, thank you, Scott.  I was really baffled there.  Like, wtf?  My wife is at home right now providing state-licensed daycare service out of our house, just as she does Monday through Friday every single week.  No, she doesn't do it for free.

As for those operated by religious organizations...  Most church daycares charge tuition.  Now, because a church is a non-profit entity, that tuition tends to be lower than private for-profit daycares, but the money in the offering plate certainly doesn't cover all the expenses of running a daycare.  When we were first married, my wife got a job working at a church daycare/preschool in southern Illinois, and 100% of her paycheck sure didn't come from the church's operating budget!

By the way, this is one of the things that makes being a single mom so financially difficult.  You can't just be a stay-at-home mom, because then you can't pay the rent, so you have to get a job and put your kid in daycare.  But then you have to get a job that pays not just enough to cover rent, but one that pays enough to also cover daycare.

[JayhawkCO]

Well TIL. And also yikes, I'm all for capitalism (sort of), but I feel like daycares should be non profit, run by a community or religious organization, and not for profit. And apparently non profit daycares do provide better care.

https://www.the74million.org/zero2eight/against-for-profit-child-care-chains/

As someone who is not religious, I certainly wouldn't want to send my son to a church daycare. Community daycare sounds fine in theory, but you probably wouldn't get the same level of care as you would from a for-profit enterprise. We don't send our son to the cheapest daycare around, but not the most expensive either. We're still paying almost $20k per year.

[Rothman]

Given the strong legal incentives for businesses to protect their copyrights and trademarks, I doubt "public backlash" is a primary consideration when needing to go after a school for infringement.

That said, if a school isn't making money off of copying music off (not charging for concert admission), I would think the incentive to sue lessens.

[Scott5114]

Given the strong legal incentives for businesses to protect their copyrights and trademarks, I doubt "public backlash" is a primary consideration when needing to go after a school for infringement.

You do not lose a copyright if it is not enforced. (That's trademarks.)

[kphoger]

As someone who is not religious, I certainly wouldn't want to send my son to a church daycare.

Heck, as two religious persons, my girlfriend and I (back in the early 2000s) decided to not even put our daughter in a home daycare that was run by someone from a different religion.

Community daycare sounds fine in theory, but you probably wouldn't get the same level of care as you would from a for-profit enterprise.

Depends.  The personal care and attention might not be as good, but it might offer better and/or more frequent special programs and activities.

We don't send our son to the cheapest daycare around, but not the most expensive either. We're still paying almost $20k per year.

People might think that sounds outlandishly expensive.  But not if you actually think about it.  $20k ÷ 50 weeks = $400 per week ÷ 5 days = $80 per day ÷ 10 hours = $8 per hour.

[JayhawkCO]

People might think that sounds outlandishly expensive.  But not if you actually think about it.  $20k ÷ 50 weeks = $400 per week ÷ 5 days = $80 per day ÷ 10 hours = $8 per hour.

Sure, but at his age, my son can legally be in a room with one teacher per ten "students", so that room is generating $80 an hour. I'm sure the teacher is not making $160k a year. (Yes, I know you have to take out overhead of food, rent, utilities, etc.)

[DTComposer]

Professional theater's goal is to make a profit off of ticket sales, so I think that's probably fair game to be sticklers about copyrights over.

Except for Broadway and tours, the vast, vast majority of professional theatres are non-profit, including all the regional houses that produce most of the shows in their pre-Broadway tryouts (Paper Mill Playhouse, The Roundabout, The Old Globe, Steppenwolf, Berkeley Rep, etc., etc.). All of them have massive development departments and are CONSTANTLY fundraising to bridge the gap between ticket sales and actual expenses.

That said, ALL theatre's goal is to make a profit off of ticket sales - it sucks to have to siphon off time and resources to ask the people who just paid for tickets to give a little bit more. The business model has fractures - not just about royalties - and has for a long time.

It's not fair if someone else makes money off of your IP.

Absolutely agree. But in the case of theatre, the consumer only experiences your IP if someone else spends massive amounts of money to produce it - and takes all the risk on whether the show sells well or not (most royalties are a percentage of box office, but there's always a guaranteed weekly minimum).

I would be super happy if I wrote a check to the royalty house to cover their expenses (library, shipping, copyists, legal, etc.) and a separate check straight to the authors.

I absolutely want copyright protections in place - to ensure creators get paid, and to protect the artistic integrity of the IP *cough*Winnie-the-Pooh: Blood and Honey*cough*. But as I said, I'm not a fan of paying the same amount to the estates of long-dead authors as I am to still-living, still-creating authors.

[Rothman]

Given the strong legal incentives for businesses to protect their copyrights and trademarks, I doubt "public backlash" is a primary consideration when needing to go after a school for infringement.

You do not lose a copyright if it is not enforced. (That's trademarks.)

Gimme money for more copies.  My property, my money.

[kphoger]

Sure, but at his age, my son can legally be in a room with one teacher per ten "students", so that room is generating $80 an hour. I'm sure the teacher is not making $160k a year. (Yes, I know you have to take out overhead of food, rent, utilities, etc.)

Don't get me started on what the state allows.  Kansas recently increased the number of kids a daycare provider can care for.  We're pretty politically conservative and generally dislike the government telling my wife how to run her business, but even I sent an e-mail to my Congressman telling him I thought it was a bad idea.  That's the only time I've ever written to my representative.  My wife, operating a home daycare by herself, is legally allowed to care for three infants.  Tell me:  if there's a fire and she has to get all the kids out of the house, how the heck is she supposed to carry three infants plus wrangle whatever other kids are there too?

Yes, I don't doubt that your daycare is allowed operate at a 10:1 child:teacher ratio, but I certainly hope they aren't operating that way.  A daycare provider charging that much and operating at full capacity could theoretically make $160k per year, but God help you if you think it would be a good place to send your kid.

Granted, my view is skewed toward home daycare scenarios.  In the home daycare world, providers generally charge less than institutions.  Out of curiosity, do you know how many staff and how many kids are on site on a typical day?  Is it anywhere near 10:1?

[JayhawkCO]

Yes, I don't doubt that your daycare is allowed operate at a 10:1 child:teacher ratio, but I certainly hope they aren't operating that way.  A daycare provider charging that much and operating at full capacity could theoretically make $160k per year, but God help you if you think it would be a good place to send your kid.

Granted, my view is skewed toward home daycare scenarios.  In the home daycare world, providers generally charge less than institutions.  Out of curiosity, do you know how many staff and how many kids are on site on a typical day?  Is it anywhere near 10:1?

Much more. There are two teachers for twelve kids in his class. I don't know the total amount of teachers and students since we didn't bring him there until he was a year and a half, so I don't know the counts for newborns. But we're really happy with his development there. (And, for what it's worth, our place has a 4.9 star rating on Google.)

[1995hoo]

Well TIL. And also yikes, I'm all for capitalism (sort of), but I feel like daycares should be non profit, run by a community or religious organization, and not for profit. And apparently non profit daycares do provide better care.

https://www.the74million.org/zero2eight/against-for-profit-child-care-chains/

As someone who is not religious, I certainly wouldn't want to send my son to a church daycare. Community daycare sounds fine in theory, but you probably wouldn't get the same level of care as you would from a for-profit enterprise. We don't send our son to the cheapest daycare around, but not the most expensive either. We're still paying almost $20k per year.

We don't have kids, but I think my outlook on that might depend on the particular church and its reputation in the area. Despite coming from a Catholic family, I was sent to a Methodist preschool when I was four years old prior to attending public school beginning in kindergarten. I don't remember anything even remotely religious about anything we did in preschool. We probably got more religious content in public school when they had the annual Christmas sing-along in December (including one or two token Hanukkah songs for the few Jewish students). Naturally that sort of event would never be allowed today.

[JayhawkCO]

Well TIL. And also yikes, I'm all for capitalism (sort of), but I feel like daycares should be non profit, run by a community or religious organization, and not for profit. And apparently non profit daycares do provide better care.

https://www.the74million.org/zero2eight/against-for-profit-child-care-chains/

As someone who is not religious, I certainly wouldn't want to send my son to a church daycare. Community daycare sounds fine in theory, but you probably wouldn't get the same level of care as you would from a for-profit enterprise. We don't send our son to the cheapest daycare around, but not the most expensive either. We're still paying almost $20k per year.

We don't have kids, but I think my outlook on that might depend on the particular church and its reputation in the area. Despite coming from a Catholic family, I was sent to a Methodist preschool when I was four years old prior to attending public school beginning in kindergarten. I don't remember anything even remotely religious about anything we did in preschool. We probably got more religious content in public school when they had the annual Christmas sing-along in December (including one or two token Hanukkah songs for the few Jewish students). Naturally that sort of event would never be allowed today.

I agree that there probably wouldn't be any religious "teaching", but given that I'm a pretty ardent atheist, I'd like to minimize my chances as much as possible. That said, I have no issues with singing Christmas or Hannukah songs as I certainly didn't become Jewish from singing about dreidels when I was a kid. (I was raised mildly Lutheran.)