Unpopular Opinions (sports edition)

[kphoger]

I didn't even bother with prom.  We moved so much when I was a kid that I had almost no connection to the kids I went to high school with.  The teachers kept saying I would regret not going, I never did.

My senior year, I went to visit a college during prom week-end.  Drove to Denver, boarded an ATA flight to O'Hare, spent a few days with a bunch of other prospective students, sang karaoke (American Pie by Don McLean) at Dave & Buster's at one point with everyone.  I'm sure it was a much better time than prom would have been.

[Max Rockatansky]

I didn't even bother with prom.  We moved so much when I was a kid that I had almost no connection to the kids I went to high school with.  The teachers kept saying I would regret not going, I never did.

My senior year, I went to visit a college during prom week-end.  Drove to Denver, boarded an ATA flight to O'Hare, spent a few days with a bunch of other prospective students, sang karaoke (American Pie by Don McLean) at Dave & Buster's at one point with everyone.  I'm sure it was a much better time than prom would have been.

In middle school in Connecticut I was a lot closer to the kids I went to class with.  I took a girl I knew to the 7th grade dance and we spiked the punch with some vodka.  We both got pretty wasted along with mutual friends but it was fun.

My family moved to the Lansing area a couple months before the start of the 8th grade.  For whatever reason I never really hit it off with kids in my class and that lasted through high school.  Probably didn't help that I didn't want to move and had a really bad attitude about it.

[JayhawkCO]

I went to 5 proms. Too many.

[kphoger]

Sometimes I think our kids are going to turn out too weird, with their having been homeschooled and having nearly all of their social interaction be at church.  Then I look at the kids who are actually in public school, and how weird they are too, and I'm good again.  Weird is the new normal, I guess.  Which, for weird people like me and many of you, might have been nice back when we were in school.

[1995hoo]

I didn't even bother with prom.  We moved so much when I was a kid that I had almost no connection to the kids I went to high school with.  The teachers kept saying I would regret not going, I never did.

I didn't go, and we only moved one time during my school years (a move that didn't affect which school I attended). I just had no interest in going. Still don't feel I missed anything. I've never been to a high school reunion, either.

I did see some high school friends—none of whom I'd seen in over 20 years—at a funeral Mass for one of our teachers maybe 10 years ago. It was nice to see them, sad circumstances notwithstanding, but on the whole I've never felt much interest in reconnecting with most of the people I knew in high school. (Last time I saw someone I knew from high school was at my college class 30-year reunion last year.)

[Rothman]

Sometimes I think our kids are going to turn out too weird, with their having been homeschooled and having nearly all of their social interaction be at church.  Then I look at the kids who are actually in public school, and how weird they are too, and I'm good again.  Weird is the new normal, I guess.  Which, for weird people like me and many of you, might have been nice back when we were in school.

I don't generalize when it comes to homeschooling.  I've seen kids come out of it ready for the world faster than those in public education and kids come out of it totally screwed up by it.  All depends on the skills, expertise and devotion of the parents in the instances I've witnessed. 

Unfortunately, my kids were peers with kids in our church that were being "unschooled" in a very destructive manner by stubborn parents.  The parents were self-starter nerds and thought their kids would just genetically follow suit and were, of course, offended to the point of even moving away from anyone else pointing out aomething was very awry (moved out of the county). My kids have a very anti-homeschool bias as a result of their interactions with the stunted development of those couple of kids.  I suppose there was also another homeschooled kid that was sharp as a tack but very socially awkward that also affected my daughter's perception, but the unschooled kids were quite severe negative examples...

[kphoger]

I suppose there was also another homeschooled kid that was sharp as a tack but very socially awkward

That's pretty common, I think.

[Rothman]

I suppose there was also another homeschooled kid that was sharp as a tack but very socially awkward

That's pretty common, I think.

But not to the point where one can generalize about homeschool outcomes.

[kphoger]

But not to the point where one can generalize about homeschool outcomes.

Just enough to make jokes about, but not enough to where the homeschoolers within earshot don't get offended.  (Ask me how I know.)

[I-57/Route 66 Fan]

IMHO Baseball Is The Only Sport That Makes White Uniforms Look Good

[Scott5114]

I don't generalize when it comes to homeschooling.  I've seen kids come out of it ready for the world faster than those in public education and kids come out of it totally screwed up by it.  All depends on the skills, expertise and devotion of the parents in the instances I've witnessed. 

Which is really the crux of the matter. Some people make really great teachers. Others are terrible at it. In public school, at least the teachers should have some degree of training in being a teacher, baseline standards they are expected to uphold, and usually some amount of experience in teaching others. With homeschooling, you are basically saying you're such an awesome teacher you can do a better job than the professionals. Now, some people might be entirely right...but how many of them have fallen victim to Dunning-Kruger and are totally wrong that they can do a better job?

Personally, I didn't get whole lot out of public school, but I doubt that I would have turned out any better homeschooled. I didn't realize until I grew up that my dad has a really annoying teaching style where he just puts information out there and expects you to make connections between it all—which, if you are new to the material, is a lot harder to do than if you're a subject-matter expert—and then he makes you feel dumb for not making the connections. So I don't think I would have learned any more if he had taught me. What I really needed was a better school—and part of the reason I didn't get much out of mine was because it was so preoccupied with sports that they spent all their money on sports coaches and had them teach history or government or whatever on the side.

Hey, look, we looped back around to the topic!

[Scott5114]

IMHO Baseball Is The Only Sport That Makes White Uniforms Look Good

Personally, I think the only time they should use white uniforms are when two teams are playing who use the same primary color, like if two teams who usually wear red play each other. If a red team plays a blue team then they should both get to wear their colored uniform. (I guess you could make an argument that if, say, red plays green then one team should wear white because of colorblindness.)

This could have the side benefit of incentivizing picking unusual uniform colors. We could use more teams choosing colors other than red, blue, and sometimes green and yellow. Need more purples, oranges, teals, and things like that.

[1995hoo]

IMHO Baseball Is The Only Sport That Makes White Uniforms Look Good

Personally, I think the only time they should use white uniforms are when two teams are playing who use the same primary color, like if two teams who usually wear red play each other. If a red team plays a blue team then they should both get to wear their colored uniform. (I guess you could make an argument that if, say, red plays green then one team should wear white because of colorblindness.)

This could have the side benefit of incentivizing picking unusual uniform colors. We could use more teams choosing colors other than red, blue, and sometimes green and yellow. Need more purples, oranges, teals, and things like that.

The NFL actually made that mistake once in the "Color Rush" era. The Bills wore all-red and the Jets wore all-green. Apparently their data showed that at least eight percent of viewers couldn't distinguish the two teams' uniforms. They admitted afterwards that colorblindness hadn't occurred to them, and apparently whenever there's a possibility of a "color v. color" matchup nowadays they ask for medical advice to ensure colorblind viewers won't have a problem.

[kphoger]

Some people make really great teachers. Others are terrible at it. In public school, at least the teachers should have some degree of training in being a teacher, baseline standards they are expected to uphold, and usually some amount of experience in teaching others. With homeschooling, you are basically saying you're such an awesome teacher you can do a better job than the professionals.

Once our kids hit high school age, they transition to online school through Acellus Academy up in Kansas City—whose platform is actually used by some of the public school districts around here for certain things.  Because, yeah, don't ask Carrie or me about the quadratic formula anymore...

My parents have both been teachers, but both did so in their retirement.  My dad, in his career as a pastor, was always teaching various classes from theology to the Bible to church history, so I guess you could say he has a gift for it—but not formal training.  Preaching yes, teaching no.  In his retirement, he took a position at a classical school, teaching Greek and Latin and an omnibus course.  My mom didn't do any teaching in her career as a nurse, but she taught children's and youth Sunday school off and on—definitely no formal training in teaching on her part.  In her retirement, she took a position at the same classical school, teaching Spanish.  They're both fully retired now.  Anyway, I'm confident that either one of them could successfully homeschool a child better than Carrie and I, and the outcome would certainly be better than most students coming out of public school.

What I really needed was a better school—and part of the reason I didn't get much out of mine was because it was so preoccupied with sports that they spent all their money on sports coaches and had them teach history or government or whatever on the side.

Hey, look, we looped back around to the topic!

You know I grew up in Atwood.  Ask me the difference in school recognition between when the football team went to state and when the academic bowl team went to state.  Ask me the difference in recognition between when a wrestler went to state and when a musician won a state competition.

[CtrlAltDel]

But not to the point where one can generalize about homeschool outcomes.

Just enough to make jokes about, but not enough to where the homeschoolers within earshot don't get offended.  (Ask me how I know.)

How do you know?

Ask me the difference in school recognition between when the football team went to state and when the academic bowl team went to state.  Ask me the difference in recognition between when a wrestler went to state and when a musician won a state competition.

What was the difference in school recognition between when the football team went to state and when the academic bowl team went to state?

What was the difference in recognition between when a wrestler went to state and when a musician won a state competition?

[CoreySamson]

I was homeschooled for all 12 years of grade school. I'd say from my experience that homeschooling is superior to public schooling if the parent doing the teaching is committed to it. While she didn't finish college, my mom is pretty smart and did a phenomenal job teaching me because of that commitment. She was more hands-off when I was in high school, but she set a really good foundation early on, which equipped me pretty well for college and work. But if you can't fulfill that commitment (which I would guess many people today can't), then it's probably far better to put your kids in public school. There are also a lot of bad influences in schools today that can really derail kids, which homeschooling shields them from (e.g., bullying, vaping, bad friend groups, drugs), though not completely. Kids also need effective connections with other kids if you homeschool (I got that on sports teams and at church). Curriculum matters too. The one my mom used after I hit middle school vastly outperformed the one we previously used. My conclusion is that if you have the means and willingness to do it, homeschooling is a valid (and superior) option.

I, for one, think I turned out much better staying homeschooled, with the exception of some social awkwardness that I had to get over in college (of which I have, minus dating lol). I did, in fact, graduate summa cum laude from my university a few weeks ago, and I already have a job utilizing that degree. I feel that without homeschooling, I would not have been able to accomplish what I have.

[Rothman]

I was homeschooled for all 12 years of grade school. I'd say from my experience that homeschooling is superior to public schooling if the parent doing the teaching is committed to it. While she didn't finish college, my mom is pretty smart and did a phenomenal job teaching me because of that commitment. She was more hands-off when I was in high school, but she set a really good foundation early on, which equipped me pretty well for college and work. But if you can't fulfill that commitment (which I would guess many people today can't), then it's probably far better to put your kids in public school. There are also a lot of bad influences in schools today that can really derail kids, which homeschooling shields them from (e.g., bullying, vaping, bad friend groups, drugs), though not completely. Kids also need effective connections with other kids if you homeschool (I got that on sports teams and at church). Curriculum matters too. The one my mom used after I hit middle school vastly outperformed the one we previously used. My conclusion is that if you have the means and willingness to do it, homeschooling is a valid (and superior) option.

I, for one, think I turned out much better staying homeschooled, with the exception of some social awkwardness that I had to get over in college (of which I have, minus dating lol). I did, in fact, graduate summa cum laude from my university a few weeks ago, and I already have a job utilizing that degree. I feel that without homeschooling, I would not have been able to accomplish what I have.

The issue there is that you're going by what you heard about public school (scary stuff) rather than what could have been your experience.

I could just as easily say that I got where I am today because of public school and discredit homeschooling.

Like I said before, generalizations really can't be made.

[TheCatalyst31]

I was homeschooled for all 12 years of grade school. I'd say from my experience that homeschooling is superior to public schooling if the parent doing the teaching is committed to it. While she didn't finish college, my mom is pretty smart and did a phenomenal job teaching me because of that commitment. She was more hands-off when I was in high school, but she set a really good foundation early on, which equipped me pretty well for college and work. But if you can't fulfill that commitment (which I would guess many people today can't), then it's probably far better to put your kids in public school. There are also a lot of bad influences in schools today that can really derail kids, which homeschooling shields them from (e.g., bullying, vaping, bad friend groups, drugs), though not completely. Kids also need effective connections with other kids if you homeschool (I got that on sports teams and at church). Curriculum matters too. The one my mom used after I hit middle school vastly outperformed the one we previously used. My conclusion is that if you have the means and willingness to do it, homeschooling is a valid (and superior) option.

I, for one, think I turned out much better staying homeschooled, with the exception of some social awkwardness that I had to get over in college (of which I have, minus dating lol). I did, in fact, graduate summa cum laude from my university a few weeks ago, and I already have a job utilizing that degree. I feel that without homeschooling, I would not have been able to accomplish what I have.

The issue there is that you're going by what you heard about public school (scary stuff) rather than what could have been your experience.

I could just as easily say that I got where I am today because of public school and discredit homeschooling.

Like I said before, generalizations really can't be made.

This was a point of contention between my mother and I. Long story short, she had a bad experience with public school, so she sent me to Catholic school and liked to talk down public school. When I got to college, I quickly realized that my public school friends turned out just as well if not better than I did (and I also wasn't really Catholic anymore).

I don't doubt that homeschooling can lead to very good outcomes for some people, but it also has some awful failure modes that institutional schools (public or private) don't; parents who hide abused kids from the outside world, parents who can't teach, religious parents who want to shield their kids from broader culture or anyone with a different mindset, etc.