Caltrans External Exit Tabs & 240 Inch Tall Overhead Signs

[Bobby5280]

The overhead sign that now includes the "Sky Pointe" listing was installed some time in 2022. At the time the sign only said "Reno" and "Las Vegas" on two lines. The sign panel was designed about as small (and cheap) as it could be. And it turned out to be a glaring oversight.

At such a late install date it should have been obvious the "Sky Pointe" element was probably going to be added. The revision that was added in 2024, placing "Reno/Las Vegas" onto one line to make room for "Sky Pointe" on the second line, ended up being a graphic design abomination thanks to the artificially squeezed lettering.

Also, "Sky Pointe" on its own might not mean anything to motorists not familiar with the area. I initially thought it was some kind of destination rather than a street. If it had a "St," "Ave," or "Blvd" abbreviation next to it then it might have made more sense. Again, we need a substantially wider sign panel for that (unless they want to do more of the squeezy-stretchy bullshit with the type in the computer).

The sign industry is full of people at various levels always looking for ways to pinch pennies. "Does the sign really need to be that big? Let's make it smaller." The subtext is always let's make it cheaper, less effective and more prone to problems later.

[US 395]

This has less to do with money—Clark County has gobs and gobs of it, so it tends to do things like put entirely unnecessary gantries on interchange ramps (look at the west and south sides of CC-215 if you don't believe me)—and more to do with contractor laziness.

I think the problem is a manager somewhere decided to pinch pennies rather than anyone in the sign production/installation chain being lazy.

If Clark County has gobs and gobs of money why wouldn't they spend some extra money on ordering a new replacement sign panel that was large enough to hold three destination listings? The sign's truss structure clearly has plenty of available empty space that it could hold a sign panel several feet wider and a couple or so feet taller. They wouldn't need to have the "Sky Pointe" listing running nearly edge to edge on the panel, much less the horrible "Reno/Las Vegas" listing that's severely squeezed.

Now, I do agree they're going a bit overboard with a good number of those overhead green signs in Las Vegas. Not every exit ramp or gore point needs an overhead big green sign, especially if it's a interchange with a regular surface street. Most freeways elsewhere just use cheaper ground-mounted signs on the exit ramps to surface streets.

I agree. Never really saw the point in those overhead signs. I guess they have to keep up with Vegas being the city of excess.

[US 395]

If you are using the size of a gantry, or another sign on the gantry, to set the size of your sign panel and then fitting the message dimensions to that, you are doing it exactly backward from what the MUTCD specifies.

The backwards practice is what happens when bean counters get to make the design decisions.

Here's one where they decided they needed to add a third listing to an existing modest-sized green overhead sign. You can look through the previous street view imagery dates to see the original design in 2022 versus the shit revision they applied in 2024. Just gotta love artificially squeezed Series Gothic type:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.2778749,-115.2765567,3a,75y,90.53h,91.24t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1s7b8PJxvIv07MILHm3EjV-w!2e0!5s20240901T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-1.2399267351107568%26panoid%3D7b8PJxvIv07MILHm3EjV-w%26yaw%3D90.52534479112991!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwNy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

For those that don't know, the sign on the opposite side of the interchange says Tonopah instead of Reno. No idea on why it was done that way.

[Scott5114]

If you are using the size of a gantry, or another sign on the gantry, to set the size of your sign panel and then fitting the message dimensions to that, you are doing it exactly backward from what the MUTCD specifies.

The backwards practice is what happens when bean counters get to make the design decisions.

Here's one where they decided they needed to add a third listing to an existing modest-sized green overhead sign. You can look through the previous street view imagery dates to see the original design in 2022 versus the shit revision they applied in 2024. Just gotta love artificially squeezed Series Gothic type:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.2778749,-115.2765567,3a,75y,90.53h,91.24t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1s7b8PJxvIv07MILHm3EjV-w!2e0!5s20240901T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-1.2399267351107568%26panoid%3D7b8PJxvIv07MILHm3EjV-w%26yaw%3D90.52534479112991!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwNy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

For those that don't know, the sign on the opposite side of the interchange says Tonopah instead of Reno. No idea on why it was done that way.

NDOT has been waffling on whether the I-11/US-95 north control city should be Tonopah or Reno for a while, though they seem to be preferring Reno lately. There are still some signs on and around Lake Mead Blvd. that say Tonopah, though.

[Bobby5280]

I think listing Tonopah as a control city for I-11 would be a penciled-in type of thing. That's because they could shave off a good number of miles on the route bypassing Tonopah. I-11 could split off US-95 South of Goldfield and run up through Silver Peak on the way to Coaldale.

[US 395]

If you are using the size of a gantry, or another sign on the gantry, to set the size of your sign panel and then fitting the message dimensions to that, you are doing it exactly backward from what the MUTCD specifies.

The backwards practice is what happens when bean counters get to make the design decisions.

Here's one where they decided they needed to add a third listing to an existing modest-sized green overhead sign. You can look through the previous street view imagery dates to see the original design in 2022 versus the shit revision they applied in 2024. Just gotta love artificially squeezed Series Gothic type:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.2778749,-115.2765567,3a,75y,90.53h,91.24t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1s7b8PJxvIv07MILHm3EjV-w!2e0!5s20240901T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-1.2399267351107568%26panoid%3D7b8PJxvIv07MILHm3EjV-w%26yaw%3D90.52534479112991!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwNy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

For those that don't know, the sign on the opposite side of the interchange says Tonopah instead of Reno. No idea on why it was done that way.

NDOT has been waffling on whether the I-11/US-95 north control city should be Tonopah or Reno for a while, though they seem to be preferring Reno lately. There are still some signs on and around Lake Mead Blvd. that say Tonopah, though.

For the mileage signs, they've been saying Fallon instead of Reno. I think there are two that still say Reno, one going out of Goldfield towards Tonopah and one on 6-95 I think about a little over halfway to Coaldale Jct.

[Great Lakes Roads]

Found another set of the new signage in the San Diego region, on I-805 around the Governor Drive interchange.

SB signage

NB signage

Nice and clean signage! 

[fwydriver405]

On a trip in CA now for Lunar New Year between the Bay Area and SoCal, and spotted these external exit tabs along the way:

I-580 east (this one was mentioned, but at the gore, my picture is the approach signage just after the Maze)



I-880 south, not sure how new these signs are. The Exit 37 gore sign, as well as the other Exit 25 signs just use conventional Caltrans internal exit tab signing:





I also saw tabs on I-5 north at the Wheeler Ridge Rd exit (East - 219A) and also on CA 99 north at either Exit 3: CA 166 or Exit 5: Copus/David Rd, but I didn't get photos (was driving and was at night), and GSV doesn't have an up to date imagery.

I also saw a set of tabs on the 110 freeway's C/D road in Downtown LA as well for the Wilshire and 4th St exits.

[SeriesE]

On a trip in CA now for Lunar New Year between the Bay Area and SoCal, and spotted some these external exit tabs along the way:

I-580 east (this one was mentioned, but at the gore, my picture is the approach signage just after the Maze)

D4 should check with D12 (or themselves, if going by express lane signage and normal signage that juts above the gantry) on how to mount exit tabs on these older gantries.

[roadfro]

I-880 south, not sure how new these signs are. The Exit 37 gore sign, as well as the other Exit 25 signs just use conventional Caltrans internal exit tab signing:

The overhead here has to be pretty new. That appears to be the new Caltrans truss design that was developed to accommodate external exit tabs and larger signs. Note that this sign panel appears to be much taller than than the typical 120" max (or whatever the limit was).

Unrelated, but I'm curious why the post-mounted sign for Zhone Way even exists, because Zhone Way is mentioned on the overhead signs.

[heynow415]

I-880 south, not sure how new these signs are. The Exit 37 gore sign, as well as the other Exit 25 signs just use conventional Caltrans internal exit tab signing:

The overhead here has to be pretty new. That appears to be the new Caltrans truss design that was developed to accommodate external exit tabs and larger signs. Note that this sign panel appears to be much taller than than the typical 120" max (or whatever the limit was).

Unrelated, but I'm curious why the post-mounted sign for Zhone Way even exists, because Zhone Way is mentioned on the overhead signs.

The overhead sign is only about a year old or so and appeared with other construction work in the area.  The original OH sign was back further (north) and had only two lines of text, so having the separate Zhone way sign was the workaround.  Seems like it could be removed now with the new jumbo sign in place.

[DTComposer]

I-880 south, not sure how new these signs are. The Exit 37 gore sign, as well as the other Exit 25 signs just use conventional Caltrans internal exit tab signing:

The overhead here has to be pretty new. That appears to be the new Caltrans truss design that was developed to accommodate external exit tabs and larger signs. Note that this sign panel appears to be much taller than than the typical 120" max (or whatever the limit was).

Unrelated, but I'm curious why the post-mounted sign for Zhone Way even exists, because Zhone Way is mentioned on the overhead signs.

The overhead sign is only about a year old or so and appeared with other construction work in the area.  The original OH sign was back further (north) and had only two lines of text, so having the separate Zhone way sign was the workaround.  Seems like it could be removed now with the new jumbo sign in place.

Should also note (I think we've talked about it before?) that Zhone Way was named in anticipation of that company building its headquarters off that exit. Since then, the company was acquired and moved out of the area, so Zhone Way is now just the final 800 feet of 66th Avenue and should just have its old name back.

[jdbx]

I-880 south, not sure how new these signs are. The Exit 37 gore sign, as well as the other Exit 25 signs just use conventional Caltrans internal exit tab signing:

The overhead here has to be pretty new. That appears to be the new Caltrans truss design that was developed to accommodate external exit tabs and larger signs. Note that this sign panel appears to be much taller than than the typical 120" max (or whatever the limit was).

Unrelated, but I'm curious why the post-mounted sign for Zhone Way even exists, because Zhone Way is mentioned on the overhead signs.

The overhead sign is only about a year old or so and appeared with other construction work in the area.  The original OH sign was back further (north) and had only two lines of text, so having the separate Zhone way sign was the workaround.  Seems like it could be removed now with the new jumbo sign in place.

Should also note (I think we've talked about it before?) that Zhone Way was named in anticipation of that company building its headquarters off that exit. Since then, the company was acquired and moved out of the area, so Zhone Way is now just the final 800 feet of 66th Avenue and should just have its old name back.

The one that they really need to replace is this old stump that is just before the Hegenburger exit, not even a mile past the one that you posted.  https://maps.app.goo.gl/jyCy6yP7p2tYh7yc9

It's been like this since 2019, you'd think that 7 years would be enough time to replace a damaged overhead sign.

[Great Lakes Roads]

Found one on I-210!

(I-210 EB at exit 25A)

[Scott5114]

Found one on I-210!

(I-210 EB at exit 25A)

And it's on the same truss that was there before, too. And the truss hasn't blown over yet. Shocking.

[SeriesE]

And it's on the same truss that was there before, too. And the truss hasn't blown over yet. Shocking.

I agree. That's what I was saying related to the squashed sign earlier that has exit tabs. You guys already know how to safely mount signs that's taller than the trusses on these old types, just keep doing them!

[kphoger]

Code Select Expand

[img]https://ibb.co/5X7RxhT0[/img]

That's not how posting images works.  The URL has to be just an image file.  You put the ULR of a page that has a photo on it.

Should be this instead:

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https://i.ibb.co/dsh5J4BT/IMG-9840.jpg

[mickeyminaj]

Code Select Expand

[img]https://ibb.co/5X7RxhT0[/img]

That's not how posting images works.  The URL has to be just an image file.  You put the ULR of a page that has a photo on it.

Should be this instead:

Code Select Expand

https://i.ibb.co/dsh5J4BT/IMG-9840.jpg

My bad, first time posting!

[kphoger]

My bad, first time posting!

At least you didn't call it a "ULR" like I did...

[Great Lakes Roads]

Last month on a Sunday, I drove around the LA region to clinch the interstates, and I found some signage with the new Caltrans standards:

I-10 WB at exit 19A

CA 47 NB at exit 1C

I-605 SB at exit 5B

I-5 SB at exit 82

[Great Lakes Roads]

CA 60 WB at exit 23

CA 60 EB at exit 24B

(I found these by accident)

[Great Lakes Roads]

Found another pair on the western end of CA 56 at I-5

[Great Lakes Roads]

On I-5 between CA 56 and CA 78 (a project to add an HOV lane in each direction), the signage is a mix between the old standards (exit tabs within the BGS) and the new standards (external exit tabs).

Old standards

New standards

This drives my OCD crazy!

[SeriesE]

On I-5 between CA 56 and CA 78 (a project to add an HOV lane in each direction), the signage is a mix between the old standards (exit tabs within the BGS) and the new standards (external exit tabs).

Old standards

New standards

This drives my OCD crazy!

Somehow the old standard sign was less cramped. I'm kind of impressed how they messed this up.

I still don't like the wide left and right margins of the new exit tabs.

[vdeane]

On I-5 between CA 56 and CA 78 (a project to add an HOV lane in each direction), the signage is a mix between the old standards (exit tabs within the BGS) and the new standards (external exit tabs).

Old standards

New standards

This drives my OCD crazy!

Somehow the old standard sign was less cramped. I'm kind of impressed how they messed this up.

I still don't like the wide left and right margins of the new exit tabs.

Yeah, how is it that they managed to get everything except the exit tab wrong?