AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Proposed US 412 Upgrade  (Read 28895 times)

US71

  • Road Scholar , Master of Snark
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11355
  • Mad man with a camera

  • Age: 61
  • Location: On the road again
  • Last Login: Today at 09:34:59 AM
    • The Road Less Taken
Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« on: May 22, 2021, 02:35:11 PM »

Arkansas Senators John Boozman and Tom Cotton plus Senator Jim Inhoffe of Oklahoma are proposing an upgrade
US 412 as an interstate Highway from I-35 to I-49.

I don't see why it's needed. Looks to me they are wasting time and effort .
Logged
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

Finrod

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 315
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Atlanta GA
  • Last Login: November 23, 2021, 07:42:26 PM
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2021, 03:13:59 PM »

Does anyone know how close the Cimarron Turnpike is to interstate standards?  That would be the segment from I-35 to Tulsa.
Logged
Internet member since 1987.

Hate speech is a nonsense concept; the truth is hate speech to those that hate the truth.

People who use their free speech to try to silence others' free speech are dangerous fools.

US 89

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 4446
  • 189 to Evanston!

  • Location: Salt Lake City/Atlanta
  • Last Login: Today at 07:53:45 PM
    • Utah Highways
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2021, 03:21:42 PM »

Does anyone know how close the Cimarron Turnpike is to interstate standards?  That would be the segment from I-35 to Tulsa.

Most of the Cimarron Turnpike has a cable barrier or even a grass median with no left shoulder.

Finrod

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 315
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Atlanta GA
  • Last Login: November 23, 2021, 07:42:26 PM
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2021, 03:33:09 PM »

Would the spur to Stillwater get a 3DI?  At 8 miles it's longer than I-865 in Indiana, and has a half exit three-quarters of a mile from its west end, giving it half an exit more than I-865.
Logged
Internet member since 1987.

Hate speech is a nonsense concept; the truth is hate speech to those that hate the truth.

People who use their free speech to try to silence others' free speech are dangerous fools.

Scott5114

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13350
  • Nit picker of unprecedented pedantry

  • Age: 31
  • Location: Norman, OK
  • Last Login: Today at 07:31:54 PM
    • Denexa 100% Plastic Playing Cards
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2021, 04:11:36 PM »

Arkansas Senators John Boozman and Tom Cotton plus Senator Jim Inhoffe of Oklahoma are proposing an upgrade
US 412 as an interstate Highway from I-35 to I-49.

I don't see why it's needed. Looks to me they are wasting time and effort .

A Tulsa to NWA corridor is going to be an increasingly important link as NWA continues to grow. Having it as an Interstate designation provides a  motivation to do something about the gap between the Cherokee Turnpike and I-49. Once you have an Interstate between Tulsa and NWA, extending it west along the road out of Tulsa to I-35 makes a whole lot of sense.

I'm all for it.

Would the spur to Stillwater get a 3DI?  At 8 miles it's longer than I-865 in Indiana, and has a half exit three-quarters of a mile from its west end, giving it half an exit more than I-865.

It could get a 3di, but don't hold your breath. OTA operates a similar spur from the H.E. Bailey Turnpike in Blanchard and Newcastle. Despite spurring off from a pre-existing Interstate and being Interstate-grade enough to carry an 80 mph speed limit, it is just called "H.E. Bailey Spur" and OTA has never applied for an Interstate designation for it.
Logged

Lyon Wonder

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 297
  • Last Login: Today at 02:30:32 AM
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2021, 04:45:51 PM »

IMO, US 412 should also be upgraded as an eastern extension of I-155 in TN too between Dyersburg and I-40 in Jackson.  US 412 in TN and the above proposed upgrade between I-35 and I-49 would be the easiest sections of US 412 to upgrade to interstate standard anyway.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2021, 04:50:01 PM by Lyon Wonder »
Logged

froggie

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 12068
  • Location: Greensboro, VT
  • Last Login: Today at 11:42:36 AM
    • Froggie's Place
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2021, 04:56:11 PM »

Disagree with your last part.  An Interstate-standard US 412 between the OK/AR line and I-49 would be  rather difficult to build due to topography and development both along and away from the existing roadway.
Logged

US71

  • Road Scholar , Master of Snark
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11355
  • Mad man with a camera

  • Age: 61
  • Location: On the road again
  • Last Login: Today at 09:34:59 AM
    • The Road Less Taken
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2021, 05:40:42 PM »

Disagree with your last part.  An Interstate-standard US 412 between the OK/AR line and I-49 would be  rather difficult to build due to topography and development both along and away from the existing roadway.

But there is a proposed /under construction 412 bypass of which AR 612 is a part.
Logged
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

Scott5114

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13350
  • Nit picker of unprecedented pedantry

  • Age: 31
  • Location: Norman, OK
  • Last Login: Today at 07:31:54 PM
    • Denexa 100% Plastic Playing Cards
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2021, 07:42:03 PM »

The only sensible number for this would be I-46. (48 would work too, but it will have a short concurrency with 44, so 48 is too high, and 42 is taken)
Logged

Plutonic Panda

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2292
  • Location: Los Angeles/OKC
  • Last Login: Today at 05:27:38 PM
US-412(OK)
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2021, 08:38:20 PM »

It looks like Inhofe is trying to work with Arkansas to get an interstate designation for 412 from I-35 to I-49. Lots of upgrades are needed and hopefully they can remove the tolls.



Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY – Federal legislation was introduced Friday to designate U.S. 412 running through Oklahoma and Arkansas as a future interstate.

The measure would give the designation to the stretch of U.S. 412 from Interstate 35 in Noble County to Interstate 49 in Springdale, Arkansas.

It was introduced by U.S. Sens. Jim Inhofe, R-Okla., John Boozman, R-Ark., and Tom Cotton, R-Ark.

“Our interstate system is the lifeblood of Oklahoma’s economy and provides the network for companies to bring materials into our critical industries, for businesses to locate in areas convenient for consumers and for commuters to get to work and school safely and reliably,” Inhofe said.

- read more here: https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/inhofe-arkansas-senators-push-to-get-interstate-designation-for-stretch-of-u-s-412/article_b9bf9be2-ba65-11eb-8c81-e3c69146bc72.html
Logged

Plutonic Panda

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2292
  • Location: Los Angeles/OKC
  • Last Login: Today at 05:27:38 PM
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2021, 08:51:58 PM »

Disagree with your last part.  An Interstate-standard US 412 between the OK/AR line and I-49 would be  rather difficult to build due to topography and development both along and away from the existing roadway.
This is going to have to happen one way or another be it an interstate designation or not. Tulsa needs to be connected to I-49(NWA) with a fully controlled access facility. Arkansas is seriously dropping the ball on this.

As for the question why is it needed, why is any interstate designation needed? I’ve long thought this to be a no brainer. I created a thread in Oklahoma section for it though not sure if it is needed or not. I suppose if this gains traction OK development of it can be tracked there. Arkansas will have the most challenging segments to construct. I’m excited for this.
Logged

wxfree

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1342
  • Location: Over there
  • Last Login: December 01, 2021, 11:47:21 PM
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2021, 10:04:33 PM »

I propose that it be designated I-494.
Logged
All of my posts represent my personal opinions and the official views of any governmental agency that has good sense.

sprjus4

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 7099
  • Location: Hampton Roads, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 07:53:34 PM
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2021, 10:09:09 PM »

Does anyone know how close the Cimarron Turnpike is to interstate standards?  That would be the segment from I-35 to Tulsa.

Most of the Cimarron Turnpike has a cable barrier or even a grass median with no left shoulder.
The design with the cable barrier median is likely what the remainder will get, and it will be sufficient enough for designation. The I-44 extension to Texas along the Bailey Turnpike had the raised grass median design in areas remaining until recently replaced with cable barrier.
Logged

In_Correct

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 569
  • Safety > Danger ... Road Buffets > Road Diets

  • Location: TX
  • Last Login: Today at 07:41:27 PM
Re: US-412(OK)
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2021, 12:01:46 AM »

That is good news. Hopefully they can keep the Tolls.
Logged
Drive Safely. :sombrero: Ride Safely. And Build More Roads, Rails, And Bridges. :coffee: ... Boulevards Wear Faster Than Interstates.

Plutonic Panda

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2292
  • Location: Los Angeles/OKC
  • Last Login: Today at 05:27:38 PM
Re: US-412(OK)
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2021, 12:18:26 AM »

^^^ interstates should have no tolls with little to no exceptions. Tolls would defeat the entire purpose of luring development with the advantage of having an interstate designation.

The tolls need to be removed but honestly I see that has a little to no chance of happening. IMO, unfortunately, this current admin is likely to remove the requirement for no tolls on interstates so you should be happy. Im not.
Logged

sprjus4

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 7099
  • Location: Hampton Roads, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 07:53:34 PM
Re: US-412(OK)
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2021, 12:43:55 AM »

^

I think in this case, given the roads are already existing as toll roads, it’s not a problem. It’s not like they are proposing a new toll on an existing free highway.
Logged

Plutonic Panda

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2292
  • Location: Los Angeles/OKC
  • Last Login: Today at 05:27:38 PM
Re: US-412(OK)
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2021, 12:46:03 AM »

^^^ not all of the road.
Logged

sprjus4

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 7099
  • Location: Hampton Roads, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 07:53:34 PM
Re: US-412(OK)
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2021, 12:59:53 AM »

^^^ not all of the road.
But no new portion will be tolled. Where the toll roads already exist, they will remain. Simple.
Logged

Plutonic Panda

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2292
  • Location: Los Angeles/OKC
  • Last Login: Today at 05:27:38 PM
Re: US-412(OK)
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2021, 02:48:11 AM »

^^^ not all of the road.
But no new portion will be tolled. Where the toll roads already exist, they will remain. Simple.
For the most part yes you are correct though I wish Oklahoma could be the anomaly.
Logged

Scott5114

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13350
  • Nit picker of unprecedented pedantry

  • Age: 31
  • Location: Norman, OK
  • Last Login: Today at 07:31:54 PM
    • Denexa 100% Plastic Playing Cards
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2021, 03:24:44 AM »

Does anyone know how close the Cimarron Turnpike is to interstate standards?  That would be the segment from I-35 to Tulsa.

Most of the Cimarron Turnpike has a cable barrier or even a grass median with no left shoulder.
The design with the cable barrier median is likely what the remainder will get, and it will be sufficient enough for designation. The I-44 extension to Texas along the Bailey Turnpike had the raised grass median design in areas remaining until recently replaced with cable barrier.

Of course, that designation was done in 1982. FHWA was a lot less of a stickler about Interstate standards back then.
Logged

Scott5114

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13350
  • Nit picker of unprecedented pedantry

  • Age: 31
  • Location: Norman, OK
  • Last Login: Today at 07:31:54 PM
    • Denexa 100% Plastic Playing Cards
Re: US-412(OK)
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2021, 03:38:25 AM »

I wouldn't expect to see the tolls go away any time soon, Interstate designation or no. I understand that the process that was undertaken the last time a toll was removed in Oklahoma, when the Chickasaw Turnpike was truncated and redesignated SH-7 Spur, was quite legally and politically convoluted, and that was with language in its bonds specifically enabling this a transfer from OTA to ODOT (no other turnpike has such language attached to it). ODOT basically required them to tear it out down to the roadbed and rebuild it before they'd accept the transfer.
Logged

Plutonic Panda

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2292
  • Location: Los Angeles/OKC
  • Last Login: Today at 05:27:38 PM
Re: US-412(OK)
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2021, 01:43:35 PM »

This is a duplicate thread.
So when/if improvements to 412 happen related to this initiative take place in Oklahoma we should discuss those improvements in the Arkansas thread?
Logged

edwaleni

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1335
  • Last Login: Today at 03:50:55 PM
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2021, 02:21:09 PM »

IMO, US 412 should also be upgraded as an eastern extension of I-155 in TN too between Dyersburg and I-40 in Jackson.  US 412 in TN and the above proposed upgrade between I-35 and I-49 would be the easiest sections of US 412 to upgrade to interstate standard anyway.

US-412 is already a freeway between Dyersburg and Jackson, just not to interstate standards. It's only limitation is the exit ramps to it from I-40 at Jackson. Does the AADT really support this kind of upgrade?

Also what about US-412 to/from Kennett AR?  Would ArDOT turn it south to connect Paragould, or would they run it straight to Pocahontas to reconnect at Imboden?

I have driven US-412 between Portia and Hardy many times and it is rough country to punch a freeway through and that usually means lots of money.

I don't disagree on the needed updates to US-412 around Springdale (Springdale Bypass) which are in progress. ArDOT has put in a lot of passing lanes on the route to Mountain View  and updated the rest to Harrison.

But between Hardy and Imboden, get the checkbook out.
Logged

Wayward Memphian

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 279
  • Location: Fayetteville, AR
  • Last Login: Today at 01:51:21 PM
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2021, 03:02:00 PM »

Arkansas Senators John Boozman and Tom Cotton plus Senator Jim Inhoffe of Oklahoma are proposing an upgrade
US 412 as an interstate Highway from I-35 to I-49.

I don't see why it's needed. Looks to me they are wasting time and effort .


I have posted on here for several years about how US 412 should be a continuation of I-22. Any new Bridge in Memphis should be the I-22 bridge along with I-555 with a Southern bypass of Jonesboro to meet up with an upgraded AR 226. Connect NWA with NEA without Conway/Little Rock and then to Memphis.  Make the exiting part through Jonesboro a 3di to I-22 and curve it up the eastern side to Paragould. A situation not unlike Fort Smith with 549.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2021, 03:07:27 PM by Wayward Memphian »
Logged

Wayward Memphian

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 279
  • Location: Fayetteville, AR
  • Last Login: Today at 01:51:21 PM
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2021, 03:14:46 PM »

IMO, US 412 should also be upgraded as an eastern extension of I-155 in TN too between Dyersburg and I-40 in Jackson.  US 412 in TN and the above proposed upgrade between I-35 and I-49 would be the easiest sections of US 412 to upgrade to interstate standard anyway.

US-412 is already a freeway between Dyersburg and Jackson, just not to interstate standards. It's only limitation is the exit ramps to it from I-40 at Jackson. Does the AADT really support this kind of upgrade?

Also what about US-412 to/from Kennett AR?  Would ArDOT turn it south to connect Paragould, or would they run it straight to Pocahontas to reconnect at Imboden?

I have driven US-412 between Portia and Hardy many times and it is rough country to punch a freeway through and that usually means lots of money.

I don't disagree on the needed updates to US-412 around Springdale (Springdale Bypass) which are in progress. ArDOT has put in a lot of passing lanes on the route to Mountain View  and updated the rest to Harrison.

But between Hardy and Imboden, get the checkbook out.

I would just look as US 412 and the Shared US412/US 63 as a rough template and


There aren't nearly enough passing lanes these days. They just act as a drag race to inevitably  slowdown yet again behind a slow mover.

I would push  to Harrison at the very least and then to Mt. Home and upgrade US 65 to the MO line.  A lot of a new US 412/interstate would look like that stretch of US 65 from Harrison to the line.
Logged

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.