What are your likes/dislikes of your State's Numbering Schemes?

[oscar]

Only one multiplex

there's two, if you count the unsigned one of 1 and 3 heading into Anchorage.  3's milepost 0 would be in downtown Anchorage - the split around Wasilla is already mile 20 or so of route 3.

(the other one is the signed 1/9)

Like in Arizona, it's not unusual for Alaska route mileposts to start at a number higher than 0, without any multiplex (hidden or otherwise).  The most famous is the Alaska Highway, whose mile 0 is in Dawson Creek BC, and ends at mile 1422 in Delta Junction AK.

But there is one real multiplex between Alaska state routes, where routes 1 and 4 share pavement between Glenallen and Gulkana.

[agentsteel53]

oh yes, 1/4, not 1/9.  One of those!

so does the Alaska Highway officially end in Delta Junction?  I have seen a photo as recent as 1975 that showed a sign in Fairbanks saying "end of Alaska Highway", which is where it was originally constructed to end at in 1942.

[Rover_0]

Another thing I like about Utah:

--No coherent N/S, E/W polarity between odds and evens (outside of US/Interstates).  It doesn't make too much sense, but I like this quirk.  I like the fact that a N/S route can receive an even number, while an E/W route can receive an odd number.

Another thing I'd do:

--Route consolidation.  I'd "merge" some routes to make them longer, such as UT-10 and UT-72 and UT-14 and UT-56, and numerous shorter routes.

[agentsteel53]

--No coherent N/S, E/W polarity between odds and evens (outside of US/Interstates).  It doesn't make too much sense, but I like this quirk.  I like the fact that a N/S route can receive an even number, while an E/W route can receive an odd number.

are there enough diagonal and otherwise strangely routed* highways to make this a sensible arrangement? 

* see CA 18 for example.

[TheStranger]

* see CA 18 for example.

18 at one point was even worse than it is now, a "W" shaped route almost that incorporated today's Route 259, I-215, Route 91, and Route 19 into Long Beach!

(Some rearrangement of 18, 247, 138 and the other Big Bear Lake/Arrowhead area routes probably would go a long way towards making this more ogical.)

Outside of Big Bear, I think Route 70 (mostly former 1934-era Route 24 and later US 40A) is the only continuous route to go from north-south to east-west on one number, though I feel like the east-west segment from Oroville to Reno Junction is a completely different corridor than the north-south route (with Route 149) that provides an alternate from Chico to Sacramento.

[agentsteel53]

18 at one point was even worse than it is now, a "W" shaped route almost that incorporated today's Route 259, I-215, Route 91, and Route 19 into Long Beach!

here I thought 18 was the route that was originally under what became 91 out of Redondo Beach?  In fact, I thought the 91 state route shields on 405 were covering up old 18 shields. 

(Some rearrangement of 18, 247, 138 and the other Big Bear Lake/Arrowhead area routes probably would go a long way towards making this more ogical.)

138 isn't all that senseless.  38 is, and I can't keep track of what is going on with 30 and 330, but 210 isn't too bad.

Outside of Big Bear, I think Route 70 (mostly former 1934-era Route 24 and later US 40A) is the only continuous route to go from north-south to east-west on one number, though I feel like the east-west segment from Oroville to Reno Junction is a completely different corridor than the north-south route (with Route 149) that provides an alternate from Chico to Sacramento.

I don't particularly mind that one since it is, literally, an alternate to 40, and back in the day when Donner Pass was a nightmare of cannibalism, an alternate was sorely needed.  Current 70 reflects the idea that there was once a 40A, and so I like it for its historic value.

(there are some 40A street blades left from the early 60s in a small town, interestingly enough!)

[TheStranger]

18 at one point was even worse than it is now, a "W" shaped route almost that incorporated today's Route 259, I-215, Route 91, and Route 19 into Long Beach!

here I thought 18 was the route that was originally under what became 91 out of Redondo Beach?  In fact, I thought the 91 state route shields on 405 were covering up old 18 shields.  

IIRC, 18 followed what was US 91 (including the old post-1964 Route 214) along Carson Street to Route 19, while pre-1964 Route 14 continued on to Redondo along today's Route 91.

(Some rearrangement of 18, 247, 138 and the other Big Bear Lake/Arrowhead area routes probably would go a long way towards making this more ogical.)

138 isn't all that senseless.  38 is, and I can't keep track of what is going on with 30 and 330, but 210 isn't too bad.

138 is great - but I feel like extending it east towards the lake itself could go a long way to eliminating one of the question-marked shaped routes' directional changes.

I was thinking, 247 south towards Big Bear to take over that segment of 18, and 18 east along 247 to Route 62 would at least allow both routes to maintain one set of cardinal directions.

Outside of Big Bear, I think Route 70 (mostly former 1934-era Route 24 and later US 40A) is the only continuous route to go from north-south to east-west on one number, though I feel like the east-west segment from Oroville to Reno Junction is a completely different corridor than the north-south route (with Route 149) that provides an alternate from Chico to Sacramento.

I don't particularly mind that one since it is, literally, an alternate to 40, and back in the day when Donner Pass was a nightmare of cannibalism, an alternate was sorely needed.  Current 70 reflects the idea that there was once a 40A, and so I like it for its historic value.

(there are some 40A street blades left from the early 60s in a small town, interestingly enough!)

Considering that the termini at modern I-80 were along today's Route 113 and US 395, Route 70 as a viable I-80/old US 40 alternate is nowhere as obvious as it was in the past.  

For that matter, Route 24 (the predecessor to US 40A) at its longest extent was such a hodgepodge - at one point, before the current El Centro Road was built north of Sacramento, running west towards Woodland with Route 16 on what was ostensibly the eastbound/northbound direction! - that it isn't surprising that it is currently represented by multiple roads now - Route 13, today's Route 24, I-680, Route 242, Route 4, Route 160, former Route 16, Route 113 or current Route 99, and Route 70.

149 and the north-south 70 would make a good 99A, if California still believed in alternate routes.  (Well, in addition to the modern 50A, we DO have 14U and 86S.   )

[tdindy88]

Here's a good explanation of the Ohio "system".  

http://pages.prodigy.net/john.simpson/highways/expls.html

I do, however, have to give Ohio credit for at least not re-using any route numbers between systems.  For example, there's only one route 70, which is an interstate highway.  There's no US 70 or OH 70.  Indiana, on the other hand....ugghhhh.

Are you refering to SR 70 or I-70, or SR 64 being 10 miles north of I-64, or SR 69 going to be 20 miles west of I-69. In fairness though most US and Interstate routes aren't repeated by the state highways. That is the reason that SR 135 is a major route from Indianapolis to the Ohio River, it is supposed to be SR 35 but the state changed it when US 35 was created.

Speaking of which, the Indiana grid is in my opinion among the best in the country, since it can be relied on (mostly) throughout the state. Knowing the highway number can usually tell you where in Indiana you are. However, there are some routes that do make you think WTF (SR 129 and 229 being nowhere near SR 29) for instance.

[agentsteel53]

IIRC, 18 followed what was US 91 (including the old post-1964 Route 214) along Carson Street to Route 19, while pre-1964 Route 14 continued on to Redondo along today's Route 91.

so that's gotta be 14 shields under there.  Good to know!

138 is great - but I feel like extending it east towards the lake itself could go a long way to eliminating one of the question-marked shaped routes' directional changes.

while we're at it, can we pave 173?  Not only is that a dirt road, but it is a very bad dirt road.  I've only driven it once, and that was too many times.  I had to have one set of wheels on the "shoulder", about 6 inches away from dropping off the edge of the cliff, just so I could keep the other set of wheels down the middle of the road, and thereby not high-center the car.

I've seen good-quality dirt roads - Hell, I've done 100mph on good-quality dirt roads! - and 173 is nowhere near a good-quality dirt road.  There's a road that needs to be evicted from the state highway system, on grounds of public expectation of quality.  When I imagine a dirt road being signed as a state highway, I certainly don't imagine a 9-foot-wide one-lane goat path along a cliff wall.

I was thinking, 247 south towards Big Bear to take over that segment of 18, and 18 east along 247 to Route 62 would at least allow both routes to maintain one set of cardinal directions.

while we're at it, 62 all the way to Parker can become 18.  I like long routes with a single number.   Then we can route US-60 over it ...

149 and the north-south 70 would make a good 99A, if California still believed in alternate routes.  (Well, in addition to the modern 50A, we DO have 14U and 86S.   )

14U is an abomination of taxpayer waste ("here, we signed this road to denote that we won't be signing this road anymore") and I have no idea why 86S got the number it did, as opposed to being plain old 86. 

149 and 70 would make a good 99E, to correspond to 99W taking over the former 99E.  And yes, both should be US routes.

[TheStranger]

IIRC, 18 followed what was US 91 (including the old post-1964 Route 214) along Carson Street to Route 19, while pre-1964 Route 14 continued on to Redondo along today's Route 91.

so that's gotta be 14 shields under there.  Good to know!

I wonder if they're white-background or outline, though I suspect outline.

138 is great - but I feel like extending it east towards the lake itself could go a long way to eliminating one of the question-marked shaped routes' directional changes.

while we're at it, can we pave 173?  Not only is that a dirt road, but it is a very bad dirt road.  I've only driven it once, and that was too many times.  I had to have one set of wheels on the "shoulder", about 6 inches away from dropping off the edge of the cliff, just so I could keep the other set of wheels down the middle of the road, and thereby not high-center the car.

For that matter, a one-lane road from nowhere to nowhere (229 out in Santa Margarita) isn't exactly the best choice for a state highway, not when "not-state-maintained" County Route N8 isn't good enough to be Route 39 between Azusa and Fullerton.

149 and the north-south 70 would make a good 99A, if California still believed in alternate routes.  (Well, in addition to the modern 50A, we DO have 14U and 86S.   )

14U is an abomination of taxpayer waste ("here, we signed this road to denote that we won't be signing this road anymore") and I have no idea why 86S got the number it did, as opposed to being plain old 86.  

149 and 70 would make a good 99E, to correspond to 99W taking over the former 99E.  And yes, both should be US routes.

IIRC, 86S was supposed to become 86 at some point...not sure that's completely happened yet, although supposedly Route 195 was to be decomissioned upon 86S's construction.

As for 99...I've gotten the impression (speculation on my part, based on reading the articles on the 1964 renumbering) that the long stand-alone segment got demoted not because it didn't qualify as a US highway (look at someting like the much shorter single-state US 46 or the recently-extended US 311!!!!) but because..."green shield = more readable!"

[agentsteel53]

I wonder if they're white-background or outline, though I suspect outline.

I believe the signs are from 1960, so that would imply outline with the extra-square-edged spade.

For that matter, a one-lane road from nowhere to nowhere (229 out in Santa Margarita) isn't exactly the best choice for a state highway, not when "not-state-maintained" County Route N8 isn't good enough to be Route 39 between Azusa and Fullerton.

229 isn't a bad road at all.  I've met traffic coming the other way and we squeezed past each other.  On 173, either one of us would've had to just plain fall off the cliff, or - even more harrowingly - drive in reverse to a point where it became possible to get around each other.

IIRC, 86S was supposed to become 86 at some point...not sure that's completely happened yet, although supposedly Route 195 was to be decomissioned upon 86S's construction.

I thought 195 was decommissioned.  Are there any shields left for it?  I know of one paddle on the east end of Box Canyon (old 60/70).

As for 99...I've gotten the impression (speculation on my part, based on reading the articles on the 1964 renumbering) that the long stand-alone segment got demoted not because it didn't qualify as a US highway (look at someting like the much shorter single-state US 46!!!!) but because..."green shield = more readable!"

gah!  I did not need to know that.  How many perfectly serviceable US-99 shields got torn down because of such silliness?

[TheStranger]

IIRC, 86S was supposed to become 86 at some point...not sure that's completely happened yet, although supposedly Route 195 was to be decomissioned upon 86S's construction.

I thought 195 was decommissioned.  Are there any shields left for it?  I know of one paddle on the east end of Box Canyon (old 60/70).

Oh, Google Street View provides:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=CA-111+%26+CA-195,+Mecca,+CA&sll=33.568915,-116.077702&sspn=0.008993,0.017166&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=California+111+%26+California+195,+Coachella+Valley,+Riverside,+California&ll=33.569009,-116.077799&spn=0.001124,0.002146&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=33.568907,-116.07771&panoid=CJORoOcqHagvIAtEpQdP6w&cbp=12,354.26,,1,7.81

As for 99...I've gotten the impression (speculation on my part, based on reading the articles on the 1964 renumbering) that the long stand-alone segment got demoted not because it didn't qualify as a US highway (look at someting like the much shorter single-state US 46!!!!) but because..."green shield = more readable!"

gah!  I did not need to know that.  How many perfectly serviceable US-99 shields got torn down because of such silliness?

http://www.gbcnet.com/ushighways/history/1964_route_renumbering.pdf is the article where I basically got that impression, with a little bit of detail on how white-on-green replaced black-on-white (and also mentioning that some US routes not supplanted by Interstates would be retaining their black-on-white US shields - of course, Route 99 between Wheeler Ridge and Red Bluff should have qualified in this regard, after the West Side Freeway alignments were chosen!)

[oscar]

oh yes, 1/4, not 1/9.  One of those!

so does the Alaska Highway officially end in Delta Junction?  I have seen a photo as recent as 1975 that showed a sign in Fairbanks saying "end of Alaska Highway", which is where it was originally constructed to end at in 1942.

Actually, IIRC, the Alaska Highway construction ended at Delta Junction, since the Richardson Highway was already in place between Delta Junction and Fairbanks.  Alaska DOT also considers the Alaska Highway to end in Delta Junction, and the AH mileposting ends at the monument marking mile 1422.  In that and many other ways, the good people of Delta Junction pound into your brain, at every opportunity, that the Alaska Highway ends there rather than in Fairbanks.  

[agentsteel53]

Actually, IIRC, the Alaska Highway construction ended at Delta Junction, since the Richardson Highway was already in place between Delta Junction and Fairbanks.

that's what I thought, but seeing that 1975 photo from Fairbanks made me reconsider.  I know nowadays Delta Junction has a very elaborate setup for the end of the highway.

I'm reading a 1957 travel guide that summarizes the Alaska Highway, and its intent was to connect to a railhead at Fairbanks, but this does not imply one way or the other whether there were already extant parts of the route.

[SEWIGuy]

Wisconsin

Likes:

--Lack of a grid system of any sort.  There really is no need for grid in today's age anyway.
--Lettered county highways.  Make it easy to differentiate from numbered routes
--Maintenance.  With few exceptions, WI state highways are maintained well and can generally be considered good roads to drive upon.


Dislikes:

--A number of county highways should have state route designations.  (Dane County N for example)
--Too many routes  (I know that sounds contradictory.)  But there are a number of cases where short duplexes could mean less overall routes.  WI-153 and WI-98 should really be one highway with a short WI-13 duplex.

[Bryant5493]

Georgia:

* The numbering system's a bit random (i.e., high/low numbers co-mingle, if you will).
* Routes aren't necessarily signed well, and take crazy twists and turns to stay on their route.


Be well,

Bryant

[jdb1234]

Georgia:

* The numbering system's a bit random (i.e., high/low numbers co-mingle, if you will).
* Routes aren't necessarily signed well, and take crazy twists and turns to stay on their route.

Not to mention that Georgia has even numbered routes that run North and South and Odd numbered routes that run East and West.

[Bickendan]

\(Well, in addition to the modern 50A, we DO have 14U and 86S.    )

Wait -- where's 14U? Gotta include that in the California set for the Clinched Highways.

As for 99...I've gotten the impression (speculation on my part, based on reading the articles on the 1964 renumbering) that the long stand-alone segment got demoted not because it didn't qualify as a US highway (look at someting like the much shorter single-state US 46 or the recently-extended US 311!!!!) but because..."green shield = more readable!"

[TheStranger]

\(Well, in addition to the modern 50A, we DO have 14U and 86S.   )

Wait -- where's 14U? Gotta include that in the California set for the Clinched Highways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Route_14U

The specific routing of Route 14U:

A section of Sierra Highway near Santa Clarita is designated and signed[1] as State Route 14U, which signifies that it is an unrelinquished section of State Route 14, still owned by Caltrans despite being bypassed by a freeway ca. 1971.[2] SR 14U is 7.33 miles (11.80 km) long, from postmile 24.28 (at the bridge carrying SR 14 over SR 14U, just north of the south end of Sierra Highway) north to postmile 31.61 (at the SR 14 ramps near Via Princessa).[2]

[hotdogPi]

Mixed bag:

Massachusetts keeps its route number when changing states, including into New York.

There is 8, 10, and 12 in order, as long north-south routes. (But then 31 and 32 are mixed in, as well as US 5 and US 7.)

2-digit numbers above 38 change roads a lot, with multiple concurrencies (based on 62 and 97), because they were created after routes 101-146.

No truck or business routes.

One big problem is that it's hard to tell where a route ends, since sometimes there is no signage.

And Route 107 is completely hidden from every freeway. (This is neither good nor bad.)

[deathtopumpkins]

And Route 107 is completely hidden from every freeway. (This is neither good nor bad.)

MA 107 probably doesn't appear on any freeway signage because it doesn't intersect any freeways. It is consistenly signed from other intersecting state routes though.


Also, holy thread necromancy! It's been over 3 years since anyone posted in this thread...

[PHLBOS]

No truck or business routes.

In most instances, where other states use the Business Route designation; MA uses the A suffix.  Examples: 1A for US 1, 2A for MA 2, 3A for US/MA 3, etc.

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, the Lowell Connector was once called Business Spur 495.  A remant of such signage (I believe is now gone) can be found below (scroll down):

http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ma/lowell/

There are one or two places where Truck routes of route numbers exist in the Bay State but they're not usually marked as Truck Routes in the traditional/MUTCD sense.  One example of such is truck prohibition along MA 114 (Gardner St.) in Peabody.  "Truck" Route 114 runs along MA 35 (Margin/Water St.) to the Peabody/Danvers line (where construction of that Danvers River crossing is a a stand-still for a few years) then turns left onto Liberty St. (which become Pulaski St.) and rejoins MA 114 at the Gardner St. intersection.  Again, while the truck route is indeed signed as such; it's not exactly per MUTCD standards.

One big problem is that it's hard to tell where a route ends, since sometimes there is no signage.

That is indeed very true, especially for the southern end of MA 99.   In other instances, signage for a route gets very sparce in areas where it should be more prominent.  MA 129 through Downtown Lynn is the most blatant example of such.  Between its multiplex w/MA 1A (Broad St.) and Union St., there's almost no signage for MA 129 despite the fact that the road makes a few turns (street changes) along the way.

Which leads to another gripe/dislike; when the state relocates a route, it's not always done in a consistent and uniform manner and many signs along the old route aren't always revised/updated to reflect such.  The above routing/rerouting of MA 129 through Lynn circa the 1990s and even the more recent rerouting of MA 107 onto the new Bridge St. Bypass are two examples of such.

Even worse, when a sign along a redesignated route gets replaced (whether a one-off due to an accident or as part of a road/sign upgrade); the updated route info. doesn't always get included/implemented on the signs.  One old through-LGS along MA 16 West (markeded as MA 1A dating back to when that road was such pre-1971) near the MA 107 interchange was replaced in the 90s with the exact same long-since-obsolete 1-A rather than the current 16 message on the LGS.

And Route 107 is completely hidden from every freeway. (This is neither good nor bad.)

MA 107 probably doesn't appear on any freeway signage because it doesn't intersect any freeways. It is consistenly signed from other intersecting state routes though.

Once upon a time, and I think there may be one or two remaining MDC-spec'd MDC LGS' indicating such, MA 107 used to continue south of the MA 16 (Revere Beach Parkway) interchange into downtown Chelsea.  If that was indeed true (and the MDC wasn't erroneous in it signage at the time it was erected), then MA 107 had a nearby connection w/the Tobin Bridge/Northeast Expressway (US 1).

[TEG24601]

I've lived in a couple of states, and spent a lot of time in others, so here is my thoughs...

Washington
Good: State Routes exist in a rough grid, with the state separated into thirds for one digit and two digit routes.
Bad: SR-20 exists in all 3 thirds.
Good: Three Digit routes are branches of one and two digit routes, which grow in number from the beginning to the end of the parent route.
Bad: No logical provision for branch routes off of three digit routes, which causes many bannered routes, especially spurs, to be created.
Bad: Some adjacent route numbers have huge gaps between them, making it difficult to properly add addition state routes to the system, if needed.
- Solution, average 00 through 99 along the length of the route, then assign route numbers based on location of junction and direction of travel. (BTW, I like the joke for SR-599)

Oregon
Good: One and Two Digit routes are Primary, a grid like system exists, but if often violated.
Bad: Two numbering systems, one the "State Highways" the other "Oregon Routes", rarely do the numbers match.
Good: Continue route numbering from neighboring states to create continuous routes to other numbered routes.

Michigan
Good: Major routes given single digit route numbers.
Good: All State Trunk Routes have a number.
Good: I Love the "M" designation for State Trunk Routes.
Bad: No rhyme or reason to the numbering, most, aside from the single digits are in order of creation.
Bad: Duplicated numbers, on non-related routes in close proximity (M-24/US-24, I forgive US-10 and M-10 because M-10 used to be US 10, and they are far enough away to not be confused.
Bad: No rhyme or reason for directions, odds can go E-W, evens can go N-S.

Indiana
Good: Strong Grid, mostly logical.
Good: Three Digit routes are branches of one and two digit routes, which grow in number from the beginning to the end of the parent route.
Good: Adding business routes when bypassing a city with a new roadway.
Bad: No logical provision for branch routes off of three digit routes.
Bad: Removal of state road designations within major cities (Lafayette, Ft. Wayne, Indianpolis), making it difficult to navigate these cities.

[roadman65]

Florida
State route numbering is good.
Mileage signs are bad, as in some areas they are no longer being used after route junctions, especially in the Orlando area and District 4.
City Limits signs are disappearing in some areas and not being used.  Example, US 1 mainly south of Vero Beach.


New Jersey
Random numbers and some routes can be either realigned along other roads or extended.  Some 500 series county roads could be renumbered to state routes as well.

Delaware
Good East-West numbering grid.  Bad North- South grid.

Georgia
Some route numbers are not actual highways, but back roads more.  Example GA 122 is not a main highway and has a state number. 

[31E]

Tennessee's numbering scheme...

Likes:

1. State routes are divided into primary and secondary routes

Dislikes:

1. No grid or zone system of any kind; numbers are picked seemingly at random
2. No even/odd rule for north-south and east-west routes
3. Numbers are sometimes duplicated; Tennessee has an I-155 and a TN 155, as well as a US 31 and a TN 31.
4. No county routes
5. Many important local roads that should be numbered and signed (e.g. County 11 North, County 11 South) don't have any kind of route number. Roads like Clarksville's Ted Crozier Blvd and Peachers Mill Rd, as well as Hendersonville's Indian Lake Blvd really should be numbered and signed. Even when a route number exists it often is poorly marked in developed areas. Springfield, Tennessee must be hogging all the numbers - every major road there has a route number, and Memorial Blvd is a multiplex of US 41, US 431, TN 76, and TN 11.
6. Most of the single-digit state routes are overlain on US Routes, when they should be used for important independent routes.
7. Relationships between 3-digit routes and parent 2-digit routes is rare - 155 and 255 have nothing to do with 55, and 374 has no relation to 74, but 149 and 249 are branches of 49.