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Author Topic: I-495 and I-270 P3 Program  (Read 1125 times)

davewiecking

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I-495 and I-270 P3 Program
« on: July 11, 2018, 11:41:26 PM »

I came across this website (https://495-270-p3.com/) just now. There has been discussion of (up for election) Gov Hogan's expansion proposal in the main Maryland thread, but no matter where this proposal goes, it deserves its own thread.

There will be 4 area workshops starting next week, and a virtual one available on the above website next Tuesday, July 17.

A few ancillary topics got their own threads: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond? (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=22873.0), and Why is MD Governor Hogan NOT expanding I-95 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=22471.0).

(Credit to http://www.bethesdamagazine.com/Bethesda-Beat/2018/Public-Invited-to-Bethesda-Workshop-on-Study-of-Easing-I-270-Beltway-Congestion/ for pointing me to the website.)
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: I-495 and I-270 P3 Program
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2018, 10:29:07 AM »

Need all interstates between Fredericksburg and Baltimore HOT/3, since there isn't a proper all-regional commuter rail system.
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1995hoo

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Re: I-495 and I-270 P3 Program
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2018, 07:06:15 PM »

Need all interstates between Fredericksburg and Baltimore HOT/3, since there isn't a proper all-regional commuter rail system.

Heh. Consistency on the tolling threshold would reduce confusion for some people, too. When we got in the car this morning, I saw my wife had her E-ZPass Flex in HOV mode. I knew she hadn't had three people in the car since last Thursday, so I asked her about it and she said she used it yesterday when she and a friend were on the Beltway; she swore I was wrong and that it's HOV-2 to ride free and that the signs backed her up. I suppose she might have misunderstood the signs since she was coming east on I-66 returning from a trip to Luray, although I've never seen how you could confuse the signs for I-66 inside the Beltway with the ones for I-495. Good thing she didn't get a ticket.
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Revive 755

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Re: I-495 and I-270 P3 Program
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2018, 09:07:50 PM »

Need all interstates between Fredericksburg and Baltimore HOT/3, since there isn't a proper all-regional commuter rail system.

Absolutely not - interstates are for more than the regional commuters.
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1995hoo

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Re: I-495 and I-270 P3 Program
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2018, 06:43:19 PM »

Maybe I misunderstood him. I thought he meant to have HO/T lanes on all the Interstates, but not that they all ought to be 100% HO/T.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

AlexandriaVA

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Re: I-495 and I-270 P3 Program
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2018, 09:38:26 PM »

Maybe I misunderstood him. I thought he meant to have HO/T lanes on all the Interstates, but not that they all ought to be 100% HO/T.

👍
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froggie

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Re: I-495 and I-270 P3 Program
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2018, 10:48:24 PM »

^ Looks like Revive is the one who misunderstood.
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Jmiles32

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Re: I-495 and I-270 P3 Program
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2018, 05:01:58 PM »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2018/07/18/tentative-construction-options-unveiled-for-marylands-ambitious-plan-to-widen-the-beltway-and-i-270/?utm_term=.ef7672116609
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An ambitious plan to widen lanes on the Capital Beltway and Interstate 270 is entering a new phase with the release of a long list of possible construction alternatives this week.

Maryland transportation officials Tuesday unveiled 15 preliminary options that include the addition of congestion-priced toll lanes as well as dedicated bus lanes that would address traffic congestion on the two major highways. The alternatives provide the most detail of what the project might look like on I-270 and the Beltway.

Gov. Larry Hogan (R) in September proposed a $9 billion project to widen the highways to add managed toll lanes through a public-private partnership. The concept is now part of a complex federal review that explores a variety of possible improvements before settling on a preferred alternative.

The improvements under study include the addition of tolled and non-tolled lanes on both highways, bus lanes, spot improvements on the existing road to allow shoulder use and the conversion of existing HOV lanes to tolled lanes on I-270. Here’s the full list.

State officials say the goal is to find the best solution that not only provides some relief for commuters but also is financially viable.

“This is a massive undertaking,” Jeff Folden, a project deputy director with the Maryland State Highway Administration told a group of residents and officials at a meeting Tuesday night in Greenbelt.

“Current funding levels from the transportation trust fund could not accommodate this,” he said, noting that construction could take decades if they wait for public funding. “We are looking for something that can provide improvements in a self-sufficient manner. We are looking to see if any of these alternatives can be self-sufficient.”

Here’s the full list: https://495-270-p3.com/online_public_workshop/
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mrsman

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Re: I-495 and I-270 P3 Program
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2018, 02:38:23 PM »

Maybe I misunderstood him. I thought he meant to have HO/T lanes on all the Interstates, but not that they all ought to be 100% HO/T.

And it would also be helpful if every road had the same standards for what is HO and what is not.   Each roadway on every freeway in the larger region (to even include I-95 north of Baltimore) should allow for toll use with free use for HOV-3 with an EZ-Pass Flex.

[I think there were some reports that the proposed 495-270 lane would be toll only, but that would not mesh well with the existing HO/T standards of 495 in Va.]
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-495 and I-270 P3 Program
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2018, 03:31:37 PM »

Maybe I misunderstood him. I thought he meant to have HO/T lanes on all the Interstates, but not that they all ought to be 100% HO/T.

And it would also be helpful if every road had the same standards for what is HO and what is not.   Each roadway on every freeway in the larger region (to even include I-95 north of Baltimore) should allow for toll use with free use for HOV-3 with an EZ-Pass Flex.

I agree. But roads managed by MDTA may not be able to exempt HOV traffic due to their trust agreement with bondholders.
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Jmiles32

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Re: I-495 and I-270 P3 Program
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2018, 10:28:16 PM »

https://wtop.com/maryland/2018/09/despite-skepticism-hogan-says-no-homes-will-be-razed-for-i-270-widening/
Quote
ANNAPOLIS, Md. — Gov. Larry Hogan has promised residents that the state has no plans to take homes using eminent domain as part of the widening of Interstate 270 and the Capital Beltway.
At a news conference in Annapolis on Tuesday, the governor repeated what he told a group of concerned citizens at a Labor Day parade in Kensington: “The state has no plans that show anybody’s houses being taken,” he said.

At Monday’s Labor Day parades in Kensington and Gaithersburg, the governor talked to residents, including Pete Altman with the group Don’tWiden270, who held signs protesting the governor’s plans to add lanes to I-270 and the Beltway. The governor said he told protesters, “I can assure you we’re not taking your houses,” and blamed what he called “a pro-traffic group or an anti-improvement group” for putting out information that he said was misleading. The governor didn’t say what group he was referring to.

Greg Slater, Maryland state highway administrator, echoed the governor’s assurances. But he used more-nuanced language, saying, “I’m here to tell you today that our approach is to implement a solution within the existing right of way of the highway.”

Slater said there are surveyors working along the roadways, conducting soil tests and environmental studies. And he confirmed that letters have gone out to residents notifying them about that activity.

“We’re in the early stages of the federally mandated [National Environmental Policy Act] process that requires us to look at all options,” he said, adding, “We’re challenging our private sector partners to find a solution that fits within that right of way.”

Rockville resident Dan Hennessy, who lives in the Rockshire neighborhood on the west side of I-270 near Maryland Route 28, said he was grateful for the governor’s statements. But he remains concerned about how the plans under the public-private partnership would be executed.

Ben Ross, with the Maryland Transit Opportunities Coalition, remained skeptical of the reassurances from the governor and from the state highway administrator.

“There simply isn’t room to add four toll lanes to the Beltway without knocking down houses,” Ross said.

Very bold promises by Governor Hogan considering the multiple stretches of limited ROW along I-495 and I-270. The only way I can see no(or very little) homes or businesses being taken would be via burying the toll lanes underground such as was done with the I-635 TEXpress lanes near Dallas, and thats not even considering the potential toll lanes' entrances and exits. While it sounds like a bunch of political talk to me, if anyone has any other ideas of how Maryland could pull this off I'd be extremely interested to hear it.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 10:30:34 PM by Jmiles32 »
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: I-495 and I-270 P3 Program
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2018, 09:58:29 AM »

Hogan's up for releection in November. Let's see what "revisions" pop up from the study after election day.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-495 and I-270 P3 Program
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2018, 11:43:41 AM »

Very bold promises by Governor Hogan considering the multiple stretches of limited ROW along I-495 and I-270. The only way I can see no(or very little) homes or businesses being taken would be via burying the toll lanes underground such as was done with the I-635 TEXpress lanes near Dallas, and thats not even considering the potential toll lanes' entrances and exits. While it sounds like a bunch of political talk to me, if anyone has any other ideas of how Maryland could pull this off I'd be extremely interested to hear it.

I-110 (Harbor Freeway) HOV lanes in Los Angeles County (now HOV/Toll lanes, styled as ExpressLanes) have a long elevated section that is entirely  within  the original Caltrans right-of-way.
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froggie

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Re: I-495 and I-270 P3 Program
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2018, 02:49:32 PM »

^ Can you not imagine the crash frequency if they were to put similar elevated toll lanes above the curvy Beltway segment near Rock Creek Park?
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Beltway

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Re: I-495 and I-270 P3 Program
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2018, 03:20:18 PM »

^ Can you not imagine the crash frequency if they were to put similar elevated toll lanes above the curvy Beltway segment near Rock Creek Park?

Straddle bents!  Make the viaduct much less curvy.
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Jmiles32

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Re: I-495 and I-270 P3 Program
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2018, 09:23:11 PM »

Very bold promises by Governor Hogan considering the multiple stretches of limited ROW along I-495 and I-270. The only way I can see no(or very little) homes or businesses being taken would be via burying the toll lanes underground such as was done with the I-635 TEXpress lanes near Dallas, and thats not even considering the potential toll lanes' entrances and exits. While it sounds like a bunch of political talk to me, if anyone has any other ideas of how Maryland could pull this off I'd be extremely interested to hear it.

I-110 (Harbor Freeway) HOV lanes in Los Angeles County (now HOV/Toll lanes, styled as ExpressLanes) have a long elevated section that is entirely  within  the original Caltrans right-of-way.

Interesting possibility, although I strongly suspect many in both Bethesda and Silver Spring would be opposed to the idea of elevated toll lanes due to "eye-sore reasons".
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abefroman329

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Re: I-495 and I-270 P3 Program
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2018, 07:39:17 PM »

Very bold promises by Governor Hogan considering the multiple stretches of limited ROW along I-495 and I-270. The only way I can see no(or very little) homes or businesses being taken would be via burying the toll lanes underground such as was done with the I-635 TEXpress lanes near Dallas, and thats not even considering the potential toll lanes' entrances and exits. While it sounds like a bunch of political talk to me, if anyone has any other ideas of how Maryland could pull this off I'd be extremely interested to hear it.

I-110 (Harbor Freeway) HOV lanes in Los Angeles County (now HOV/Toll lanes, styled as ExpressLanes) have a long elevated section that is entirely  within  the original Caltrans right-of-way.

Interesting possibility, although I strongly suspect many in both Bethesda and Silver Spring would be opposed to the idea of elevated toll lanes due to "eye-sore reasons".
I don’t think the tonier residents live within eyeshot of where the elevated sections would be.
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