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Author Topic: Virginia  (Read 870253 times)

AlexandriaVA

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5175 on: June 29, 2020, 12:06:18 PM »

The Virginia statute does provide that "No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic." It already said that.

Yes, but makes you wonder what the meaning of "disregard" truly is (maybe it's been subject to interpretation over the years?).

For instance, if the weather is really bad (rain storm, very hot day), the brief delay that the driver faces is disproportionately less inconvenient than the one that the pedestrian would suffer by waiting.

My own take on that rule is that you cannot jump out into a crosswalk so soon that a driver doesn't have a reasonable chance to stop and avoid collision. However, if the argument is simply that "the driver was inconvenienced because the pedestrian didn't let the driver proceed before crossing", then I have a hard time buying it. Yielding to pedestrians is just that, based on a lower priority on the right-of-way.

Otherwise, right-of-way means nothing. Pedestrians can always waive that right (I occasionally do, in that very circumstance).
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1995hoo

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5176 on: June 29, 2020, 12:16:20 PM »

I've always interpreted it the way you suggest—the pedestrian must act with due care and must consider the conditions and the nature of the approaching vehicle. Thus, on a rainy or snowy day a vehicle might need a little more space to stop safely, and a big truck cannot stop as easily as a small car.

The full hard-copy Code of Virginia you can find in a library will have annotations following a statute that will tell if any reported opinions interpret that clause. The online copy available through the LIS doesn't have the annotations. I suspect Michie's (a legal publisher) may hold the copyright to the annotations.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

AlexandriaVA

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5177 on: June 29, 2020, 01:34:10 PM »

Interestingly enough, I find myself slowing down at crosswalks in more crowded neighborhoods even if there's no speed bumps/signs around. Basically, in anticipation of spotting a crossing pedestrian (whom often are obscured from view due to cars parked on the street).

I still think there's a tricky grey area with respect to the pedestrian *being* in the crosswalk. I know that many (myself included) may feel uncomfortable walking into a crosswalk of a multi-lane high-speed road (perhaps like this part of Little River Turnpike in Annandale) https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8233341,-77.1663203,3a,75y,316.11h,77.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slfeDtHptAoOfbbzhYyt_sQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). Ideally, there would be a place between the sidewalk and the open roadway, where, if a pedestrian was standing, would signal to driver that he/she intended to cross the road (whereas a person standing on a sidewalk waiting for traffic to clear does not currently rise to that level).
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1995hoo

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5178 on: June 29, 2020, 02:42:59 PM »

More fun on I-395.

?s=20
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

jmacswimmer

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5179 on: June 29, 2020, 02:53:41 PM »

Maybe VDOT should consider extending the concrete barrier further west or putting up some bollards where the express ramp diverges on the left.  With the way its currently striped, seems like it'd relatively easy to pull off.
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1995hoo

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5180 on: June 29, 2020, 02:58:15 PM »

Maybe VDOT should consider extending the concrete barrier further west or putting up some bollards where the express ramp diverges on the left.  With the way its currently striped, seems like it'd relatively easy to pull off.

I'd also like to see a barrier extend further east where that on-ramp joins the highway. I haven't commuted via I-395 on a regular basis in a long time, but when I did, every single morning I'd see people already on the highway cutting over to the right to use the merge lane as a passing lane.

(For those unfamiliar with the area, here is a Street View image from October 2019: https://goo.gl/maps/JJD11v1B2pDhjM1p6  The on-ramp is where that white car is to the right and the ramp the people in that video were trying to reach is to the left where the construction barriers and such are. If you click ahead a ways, you'll the the lane to the right coming from the on-ramp is an ordinary acceleration lane that ends as you pass under that overpass ahead.)
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

sprjus4

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5181 on: June 29, 2020, 02:58:45 PM »

More fun on I-395.

It's even better that there's already a direct express lane ramp from VA-110 South for those who wish to use it - it's not like doing that dangerous maneuver on the I-395 general purpose lanes is the -only- way in. Granted though, it does require exiting the VA-110 freeway, going through a few traffic lights, then re-entering I-395. Either way, far safer and doesn't put your life and others in danger. Pure stupidity at its finest.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.8648086,-77.0518456/38.8663434,-77.0508036/@38.8654109,-77.0526034,366m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!4m1!3e0?hl=en 
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 03:01:13 PM by sprjus4 »
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VTGoose

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5182 on: June 29, 2020, 05:03:31 PM »

There is still frustration, though, with students who will step into a crosswalk, requiring a driver to stop, even though there isn't another car coming for several blocks behind the stopped car.

Bruce in Blacksburg

Yeah, you can never really get back those lost 30 seconds.  :rolleyes:
Tell that to the pedestrian who couldn't be arsed to lose 5 seconds.

That's pretty much the point -- the vehicle will be gone and the pedestrian can crawl across the street if so desired because there is no traffic close by. It's not such a big deal now, but when driving with a clutch it was an annoyance to give up that momentum.

It is situational though -- if it is raining and a pedestrian doesn't have an umbrella, they get a pass and chance to get out of the rain a little sooner.

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1995hoo

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5183 on: June 29, 2020, 05:38:58 PM »

Looks like the police have taken note of the I-395 situation:

?s=20
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

mrsman

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5184 on: June 29, 2020, 08:14:42 PM »

Looks like the police have taken note of the I-395 situation:

?s=20
Why do you think this is happening all of a sudden?  Do you think this has to do with the express lanes having toll all the way to the bridge?  was this a common phenomenon before the opening of the express lanes?

Nexus 5X

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plain

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5185 on: June 29, 2020, 09:11:33 PM »

I'm just glad it's got VSP's attention now. These idiots obviously don't care about anyone's safety or even their own for that matter trying to pull that maneuver.
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1995hoo

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5186 on: June 29, 2020, 09:21:18 PM »

Looks like the police have taken note of the I-395 situation:

?s=20
Why do you think this is happening all of a sudden?  Do you think this has to do with the express lanes having toll all the way to the bridge?  was this a common phenomenon before the opening of the express lanes?

Nexus 5X



Well, that’s what doesn’t make sense. You’d think this would have been more common back before the tolls took effect. But I don’t remember this being an issue in the past.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Roadrunner75

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5187 on: June 29, 2020, 09:30:03 PM »

Looks like the police have taken note of the I-395 situation:

"To find a fix (which will take a little time)"
How about dropping some Jersey barriers in the gore area to prevent cutting straight across, and signs warning the ramp is monitored by camera and tickets will be issued.
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mrsman

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5188 on: June 30, 2020, 01:46:56 AM »

Looks like the police have taken note of the I-395 situation:

?s=20
Why do you think this is happening all of a sudden?  Do you think this has to do with the express lanes having toll all the way to the bridge?  was this a common phenomenon before the opening of the express lanes?

Nexus 5X



Well, that’s what doesn’t make sense. You’d think this would have been more common back before the tolls took effect. But I don’t remember this being an issue in the past.
I can see a link.  With tolls now on this stretch, including up to the bridge, the general lanes are that much worse.  Before tolls the traffic would even itself out better.  In afternoons, you would actually had a net increase in lanes as you head to the bridge and the backups would occur closer to the bridge.  But now, fewer people are in the express lanes and only decide to take them when traffic is really bad.

I think it was a mistake to allow tolls north of the Pentagon, a stretch where transurban did not make any improvement.

Nexus 5X

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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5189 on: June 30, 2020, 03:05:31 AM »

I think it was a mistake to allow tolls north of the Pentagon, a stretch where transurban did not make any improvement.
It was a mistake to allow tolls on any of the I-95 and I-395 HO/T lanes outside of peak hours. They’ve proven themselves to make traffic worse in areas outside peak hours where they could be previously used as additional general purpose capacity, notable examples being the aforementioned I-395 bridge and also 4 to 3 lane drop at the Occuquan River on I-95 southbound.

I-495 and the future I-66 lanes are more understandable as those are new facilities, though arguably those should also be toll free outside peak hours to provide maximum capacity when traffic volumes are lower and incentive to pay a toll is lower.

All of this would make sense from a traffic standpoint, however sense we are dealing with a private company who has a financial agenda, this would never happen as it would only hurt revenue streams. That, along with any sort of general purpose lane widening (besides auxiliary lanes) along I-95 or I-395 that would help improve overall traffic flow.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 03:13:40 AM by sprjus4 »
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mrsman

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5190 on: June 30, 2020, 07:34:39 AM »

I think it was a mistake to allow tolls north of the Pentagon, a stretch where transurban did not make any improvement.
It was a mistake to allow tolls on any of the I-95 and I-395 HO/T lanes outside of peak hours. They’ve proven themselves to make traffic worse in areas outside peak hours where they could be previously used as additional general purpose capacity, notable examples being the aforementioned I-395 bridge and also 4 to 3 lane drop at the Occuquan River on I-95 southbound.

I-495 and the future I-66 lanes are more understandable as those are new facilities, though arguably those should also be toll free outside peak hours to provide maximum capacity when traffic volumes are lower and incentive to pay a toll is lower.

All of this would make sense from a traffic standpoint, however sense we are dealing with a private company who has a financial agenda, this would never happen as it would only hurt revenue streams. That, along with any sort of general purpose lane widening (besides auxiliary lanes) along I-95 or I-395 that would help improve overall traffic flow.

All of what you are saying is totally true.  And I agree.  The I-95/395 express lanes should only be toll during the peak hours as a way of adding vehicles in an area that was once only available to HOV traffic.  The only thing moderately acceptable would have been a SLIGHT expansion of the definition of peak.

The insult to injury on I-395 is that in the afternoons, most of the 95/395 express lanes are southbound only to account for the dominant direction of traffic.  The stretch from Pentagon to the bridge always had a two-way portion of express lanes that were open to all traffic, even during rush hours.  In the morning, some northbound regular traffic would be able to merge in with the HOV lane traffic into those lanes.  But in the afternoon, as the express lanes south of the Pentagon were not open in the northbound direction, those lanes effectively were a pure expansion of northbound capacity.  The express lanes only had traffic coming in from Eads Street and this ramp from the general lanes.  Also, any of Transurban' work in the area did not amount to any capacity increase here, as there still are the same number of lanes as before.

Effectively, before the 395 toll project, this stretch of the express lanes was open to all vehicles 24/7.  During the times the northbound express lanes south of the Pentagon were open, general traffic would have to merge in with other traffic to use this facility [rush hours this was HOV, other times even the reversible lanes were open to all].  During times when the reversible lanes were closed in the northbound direction, this facility was available to all merging in to nearly empty lanes.

So while I agree with spjurs4 on a policy that would restrict toll implementation during the old restricted hours and locations only for the entire 95/395, at the very minimum it seems totally unfair to allow for a northbound toll on the Pentagon-Bridge section, when the rest of the 395/95 express lanes aren't even operating in the northbound direction.  [I believe that the decision to do so was at DDOT's request.]
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5191 on: June 30, 2020, 10:07:56 AM »

I've always interpreted it the way you suggest—the pedestrian must act with due care and must consider the conditions and the nature of the approaching vehicle. Thus, on a rainy or snowy day a vehicle might need a little more space to stop safely, and a big truck cannot stop as easily as a small car.

The full hard-copy Code of Virginia you can find in a library will have annotations following a statute that will tell if any reported opinions interpret that clause. The online copy available through the LIS doesn't have the annotations. I suspect Michie's (a legal publisher) may hold the copyright to the annotations.

Maryland is the same way.  The current Maryland statutes are on the Web site of the General Assembly, but there are no annotations to discuss opinions by the Court of Special Appeals (that's the intermediate appellate court in Maryland, which can and sometimes does issue "reported" opinions) and the Court of Appeals (that's the highest Maryland court, and most of the cases it hears are after the court grants a writ of certiorari). 

Last time I checked, Michie's was also the publisher for Maryland. 

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Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5192 on: June 30, 2020, 10:14:40 AM »

I think it was a mistake to allow tolls north of the Pentagon, a stretch where transurban did not make any improvement.
It was a mistake to allow tolls on any of the I-95 and I-395 HO/T lanes outside of peak hours. They’ve proven themselves to make traffic worse in areas outside peak hours where they could be previously used as additional general purpose capacity, notable examples being the aforementioned I-395 bridge and also 4 to 3 lane drop at the Occuquan River on I-95 southbound.


I strongly disagree.  There was a decision made to allow these lanes to be run by a private concession holder (Transurban), and that meant that concession had to allow HOV-3+ traffic and buses to use the lanes at no charge, but that they could collect tolls (set high enough to assure free-flow conditions at all times except in the event of a crash) from other traffic.  That's a pretty clear and reasonable policy.

The case can be made that the lanes should have remained "free" and open to all drivers (regardless of occupancy) outside of the HOV-restricted times, as had been the case for many years.

But VDOT decided to go with the private concession on a  long-term basis, and that is the way it is going to be, unless the concession owner were to go bankrupt or the Commonwealth were to decide to buy-out Transurban.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 10:20:04 AM by cpzilliacus »
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Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5193 on: June 30, 2020, 10:29:00 AM »

Looks like the police have taken note of the I-395 situation:

[tweet removed]
Why do you think this is happening all of a sudden?  Do you think this has to do with the express lanes having toll all the way to the bridge?  was this a common phenomenon before the opening of the express lanes?

Nexus 5X



Well, that’s what doesn’t make sense. You’d think this would have been more common back before the tolls took effect. But I don’t remember this being an issue in the past.
I can see a link.  With tolls now on this stretch, including up to the bridge, the general lanes are that much worse.  Before tolls the traffic would even itself out better.  In afternoons, you would actually had a net increase in lanes as you head to the bridge and the backups would occur closer to the bridge.  But now, fewer people are in the express lanes and only decide to take them when traffic is really bad.

I think it was a mistake to allow tolls north of the Pentagon, a stretch where transurban did not make any improvement.

Could be. What I was thinking is that there are some people who are just very much against the idea of paying a toll, so I was mildly surprised to see people trying to reach the lanes where they'd have to pay. (I tend to assume if those vehicles we see making that maneuver qualified for free passage under the current rules, they'd be more likely just to enter the express lanes legally via the route sprjus4 noted in an earlier reply because they'd have been headed to the express lanes all along.) BTW, Dave Statter also tweeted out video of a Metrobus making that maneuver, though he didn't say whether the bus was carrying passengers at the time. You can see that video in this article: https://www.arlnow.com/2020/06/29/video-people-keep-cutting-across-i-395-to-get-to-the-hov-bridge/

I'm not going to get bent out of shape about the approach to the bridge being tolled for a simple reason: Once upon a time, those lanes were subject to an HOV restriction at all times. The HOV hours gradually got shorter over the years, and in the late 1980s the restriction was removed from the approach to the bridge because of construction underway in the District. The restriction was never reinstated, but surely it could have been reinstated had VDOT deemed it appropriate to do so. Essentially, I view the current toll between the Pentagon and the bridge as being similar to doing that—a somewhat more lenient version of an HOV restriction was imposed, and I say "somewhat more lenient" because the old rules didn't contain any provision for SOVs or HOV-2s, whereas the current one allows those people access if they pay for it.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

AlexandriaVA

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5194 on: June 30, 2020, 02:16:14 PM »

BTW, Dave Statter also tweeted out video of a Metrobus making that maneuver, though he didn't say whether the bus was carrying passengers at the time.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was a deadhead maneuver. I'm thinking back down to the new garage in Springfield off of Cinder Bed Rd...obviously a local run would be out of the question in the middle carriageway.
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1995hoo

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5195 on: June 30, 2020, 03:10:53 PM »

BTW, Dave Statter also tweeted out video of a Metrobus making that maneuver, though he didn't say whether the bus was carrying passengers at the time.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was a deadhead maneuver. I'm thinking back down to the new garage in Springfield off of Cinder Bed Rd...obviously a local run would be out of the question in the middle carriageway.

What would be the point of the maneuver, though? The maneuver seen in those videos gets you into the northbound express lanes, that is, towards DC. If you were deadheading to Springfield, it wouldn't make much sense to go that way.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

AlexandriaVA

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5196 on: June 30, 2020, 04:19:47 PM »

Ok good point. For some reason I was thinking soutbound.

Maybe a 5A going from Rosslyn to L'Enfant?
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plain

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5197 on: June 30, 2020, 10:56:45 PM »

BTW, Dave Statter also tweeted out video of a Metrobus making that maneuver, though he didn't say whether the bus was carrying passengers at the time.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was a deadhead maneuver. I'm thinking back down to the new garage in Springfield off of Cinder Bed Rd...obviously a local run would be out of the question in the middle carriageway.

What would be the point of the maneuver, though? The maneuver seen in those videos gets you into the northbound express lanes, that is, towards DC. If you were deadheading to Springfield, it wouldn't make much sense to go that way.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that bus operator gets fired for that.
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1995hoo

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5198 on: July 01, 2020, 07:45:26 AM »

BTW, Dave Statter also tweeted out video of a Metrobus making that maneuver, though he didn't say whether the bus was carrying passengers at the time.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was a deadhead maneuver. I'm thinking back down to the new garage in Springfield off of Cinder Bed Rd...obviously a local run would be out of the question in the middle carriageway.

What would be the point of the maneuver, though? The maneuver seen in those videos gets you into the northbound express lanes, that is, towards DC. If you were deadheading to Springfield, it wouldn't make much sense to go that way.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that bus operator gets fired for that.

I believe he said WMATA said the driver would be "disciplined." May not result in a firing. WMATA is intimidated by the transit workers' union and they’ve wound up allowing some Metrorail operators to remain on the job after some appallingly bad actions, so I won’t be surprised if the same happened here.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

roadman65

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #5199 on: July 04, 2020, 09:24:00 AM »

I heard now the diamond in Fredericksburg at I-95 and VA 3 is no longer.  It is not  now a DDI is it?
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