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Virginia

Started by Alex, February 04, 2009, 12:22:16 AM

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WillWeaverRVA

Quote from: 1995hoo on September 29, 2026, 10:00:40 PMUnrelated to the above, but a topic that greatly interests me because of where I live, is that VDOT published its report with the results of the study for improvements to Van Dorn Street from Kingstowne Boulevard to the Beltway. Note it's a 139-page .PDF. I have no comments to offer yet because I haven't had time to read it so far.

Hopefully that project can include extending the VA 401 designation to the Beltway (the study area actually includes part of Van Dorn Street in Alexandria between the city limits and Pickett Street) so the designation doesn't just end abruptly.
Will Weaver
WillWeaverRVA Photography | Twitter

"But how will the oxen know where to drown if we renumber the Oregon Trail?" - NE2


1995hoo

#7976
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on Today at 08:26:27 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 29, 2026, 10:00:40 PMUnrelated to the above, but a topic that greatly interests me because of where I live, is that VDOT published its report with the results of the study for improvements to Van Dorn Street from Kingstowne Boulevard to the Beltway. Note it's a 139-page .PDF. I have no comments to offer yet because I haven't had time to read it so far.

Hopefully that project can include extending the VA 401 designation to the Beltway (the study area actually includes part of Van Dorn Street in Alexandria between the city limits and Pickett Street) so the designation doesn't just end abruptly.

The main reason I didn't mention the Alexandria section is that when they asked for public comments, they didn't ask for anything regarding that area. They asked about things up to the interchange with the Beltway, but they didn't ask about anything north of there. So I didn't mention it. The study also included the intersection of Beulah Street and Franconia Road (and, relatedly, Larkspur Drive just east of there).

I would like to see a couple of improvements in Alexandria, but I'm not holding my breath:
  • Longer right-turn lane northbound at Pickett Street. That particular light is the main northbound bottleneck in my experience (most recently last night)—once you get past there, traffic moves much better. I recognize there's not much, if any, room for an extended turn lane there. (That's an older Street View because the latest one has a dump truck in the way.)
  • Synchronize the lights at the paving company (Courtney Avenue) and Pickett Street. The former regularly turns green while the latter is still red, so nobody can go anywhere.
  • Eliminate left turns from southbound Van Dorn to Eisenhower Avenue because the loop-around route via Metro Road accomplishes the same movement. Doing this would allow more northbound green time. But, of course, unless and until they can solve the backup at the Pickett light, more northbound green time would just speed the trip into the backup.
  • I suppose it would also be possible to ban left turns from westbound Eisenhower to southbound Van Dorn for the same reason, although the merge area on Van Dorn is tight (combined with a right-turn-only lane into the industrial area) and could not handle the resulting volume of traffic. For that reason I don't think I'd ban the left turn. The left turn also has two lanes, whereas Metro Road has only one.

Last night I looked at the .PDF I linked in my earlier post. The thing I don't especially like is the elimination of the median cut at Villa Street on Franconia Road just west of Van Dorn. That access point takes pressure off Van Dorn as an exit point for people in the Northampton neighborhood (west of Van Dorn and north of Lake Village Drive) and, to a lesser extent, the neighborhoods along Lake Village Drive. Once the median cut is closed, to go west on Franconia they'll have to exit via Lake Village, go left on Van Dorn, and go left again at the next light. I understand the desire to extend the left-turn lanes on eastbound Franconia, however. The document linked above says the lineup for the light can reach half a mile during rush hour, and from my observations over the years that's probably accurate. It results in all three lanes backing up because line-cutters use the other two lanes and then stop, blocking traffic, in an attempt to shove left at the front of the queue.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

sprjus4

Quote from: Beltway on Today at 02:01:07 AMI am always there
QuoteI will gladly pay and benefit from
QuoteI expect to be always there so new lanes are being taken away
QuoteMy use of
QuoteI will use
I see...

WillWeaverRVA

Quote from: sprjus4 on Today at 10:20:11 AM
Quote from: Beltway on Today at 02:01:07 AMI am always there
QuoteI will gladly pay and benefit from
QuoteI expect to be always there so new lanes are being taken away
QuoteMy use of
QuoteI will use
I see...

The clipped "I am always there" really creeped me out.
Will Weaver
WillWeaverRVA Photography | Twitter

"But how will the oxen know where to drown if we renumber the Oregon Trail?" - NE2

vdeane

Quote from: Beltway on September 29, 2026, 10:40:40 PMNot quite the same situation.

On I-64 in Hampton Roads, most of the conversion involves turning underused HOV lanes into dynamically priced Express Lanes while keeping three free general-purpose lanes. In a few short segments they do take a GP lane, but the overall network is designed around pricing that keeps the managed lane flowing and gives drivers a choice.

Simply restriping a busy general-purpose lane into a separated "express" lane with no (or weak) demand management is what tends to make the remaining GP lanes worse. Virginia's priced Express Lanes systems (both Northern Virginia and the expanding Hampton Roads network) use variable tolls specifically to avoid that outcome. The two approaches are not interchangeable.
When I was on that portion of I-94, the two general purpose lanes were packed, while the express lane (the former third general purpose lane, which was segregated off with bollards for testing self-driving cars, although traffic is allowed to use it as an express lane) was empty.  I'm not sure how a variable toll to gaurantee free-flow would have helped, given that utilization was already very low.  People just want the ability to pass those who are going slower than they'd like (even if those people are already going the speed limit or faster; not that you could get to 70 on I-94 with how much traffic there was).

That said, when this was described as removing a general purpose lane on I-64, I was imagining an actual general purpose lane... not an HOV lane that is rarely restricted to HOV traffic.  At least going from four to three would hopefully be less impact than going from three to two.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Beltway

Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on Today at 10:55:02 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on Today at 10:20:11 AM
Quote from: Beltway on Today at 02:01:07 AMI am always there
QuoteI will gladly pay and benefit from
QuoteI expect to be always there so new lanes are being taken away
QuoteMy use of
QuoteI will use
I see...
The clipped "I am always there" really creeped me out.
Oh sure -- I am there 24/7/365! Endless loops on the Hampton Roads Beltway! :-)

OK I get it -- some people don't like the HOT lanes -- and I do -- I see plenty of others there as well.

Let's leave it at that.
Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Beltway

Quote from: vdeane on Today at 12:21:22 PMWhen I was on that portion of I-94, the two general purpose lanes were packed, while the express lane (the former third general purpose lane, which was segregated off with bollards for testing self-driving cars, although traffic is allowed to use it as an express lane) was empty.  I'm not sure how a variable toll to gaurantee free-flow would have helped, given that utilization was already very low.  People just want the ability to pass those who are going slower than they'd like (even if those people are already going the speed limit or faster; not that you could get to 70 on I-94 with how much traffic there was).
Looks like a rather different setup.

What happened on Michigan's I-94 with the Connected and Automated Vehicle (CAV) pilot is a textbook example of why drivers get furious. The state took an existing, functioning general-purpose lane, walled it off with plastic pylon markers to create a 3-mile "smart express lane" for technology testing, and effectively reduced a public freeway from three general lanes down to two. Local commuters noted it instantly made general congestion worse, acting as a bottleneck just to isolate a lane for future tech.

While it remains open to the public during normal driving hours, it is legally shut down to the regular public during off-peak testing windows (9 a.m. to 3 p.m. on weekdays) so automated test cars can use it exclusively.

https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/about/faqs/road-projects/i-94-connected-and-automated-vehicle-pilot
Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)