Are Rest Areas Obsolete?

[HighwayStar]

I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.

I find that argument uncompelling. All of them were built and maintained at one point without issue, somewhere along the line something changed, but if we had always been this hard up for funds they never would have been built in the first place.
NY is notoriously mismanaged, as well as being a rustbelt state so I can't really say its a good benchmark for what they should cost.

One thing I've found is that many of these rest areas are built like palaces and not places to use the restroom. I saw a picture over the weekend of the new Kentucky welcome center on I-75 in Whitley County. That thing looks like a mansion. Functionality seems to be a secondary consideration in the way some of these facilities are built. Put up a plain block building and keep it clean and the plumbing working, and it's just fine.

One NYSDOT Region in particular has trouble with the cost of maintaining cinder block rest areas into their capital program given other needs.

HighwayStar is simply ignorant about how capital programs are put together.

I am not "simply ignorant" it makes no difference how they structure their capital program or whatever other accounting story you want to paint it with. The fact remains that all those rest areas were built at one time without issue, and somewhere along the line this country became to broke/cheap to even maintain them.

[1995hoo]

Does that mean you're complicatedly ignorant?

[HighwayStar]

Does that mean you're complicatedly ignorant?

No, it means that complaining about how their capital fund works is entirely beside my point.

[SEWIGuy]

I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.

I find that argument uncompelling. All of them were built and maintained at one point without issue, somewhere along the line something changed, but if we had always been this hard up for funds they never would have been built in the first place.
NY is notoriously mismanaged, as well as being a rustbelt state so I can't really say its a good benchmark for what they should cost.

One thing I've found is that many of these rest areas are built like palaces and not places to use the restroom. I saw a picture over the weekend of the new Kentucky welcome center on I-75 in Whitley County. That thing looks like a mansion. Functionality seems to be a secondary consideration in the way some of these facilities are built. Put up a plain block building and keep it clean and the plumbing working, and it's just fine.

One NYSDOT Region in particular has trouble with the cost of maintaining cinder block rest areas into their capital program given other needs.

HighwayStar is simply ignorant about how capital programs are put together.

I am not "simply ignorant" it makes no difference how they structure their capital program or whatever other accounting story you want to paint it with. The fact remains that all those rest areas were built at one time without issue, and somewhere along the line this country became to broke/cheap to even maintain them.

Maybe its because they just aren't as high a priority as they used to be.  Just looking at Wisconsin traffic count data, roughly 1-2% of the vehicles on the interstate highways of Wisconsin use the rest areas.  So while that doesn't make them "obsolete," it certainly makes it understandable why DOTs want to direct their resources elsewhere.

[hbelkins]

I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.

I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.

....

A friend of mine who works for the Nevada state government confirms this. They're having a problem with locating an EV charger on one particular portion of I-80 and a gas station owner on one side of the highway refuses to host it. I asked my friend why they can't put it at the rest area on the opposite side of the highway there, recognizing that the rest area is less developed than I'm used to on the East Coast, and he said it had to do with the prohibitive cost because the rest area doesn't have the necessary electricity to allow for a charger.

Edited to add: I had posted about this in another thread and here's the link; one of my posts contains his response explaining why the rest area isn't an option.

Why would the state government be involved in placing an EV charging station? It doesn't place gas pumps, so why should it place an EV charger? Seems to me this is a matter best suited for the private sector.

Or if it's vital to place it near the gas station, use eminent domain to acquire the proper location.

[skluth]

I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.

I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.

There's no law saying rest areas need to be in rural areas. Wisconsin has a rest area/ welcome center just outside Beloit. Colorado has one Burlington, the first town westbound on I-70 entering the state. The Burlington rest area would make a good template on how to incorporate a rest area to promote tourism in small towns. Maybe the problem is the placement of rest areas, not the existence of rest areas.

[1995hoo]

I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.

I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.

....

A friend of mine who works for the Nevada state government confirms this. They're having a problem with locating an EV charger on one particular portion of I-80 and a gas station owner on one side of the highway refuses to host it. I asked my friend why they can't put it at the rest area on the opposite side of the highway there, recognizing that the rest area is less developed than I'm used to on the East Coast, and he said it had to do with the prohibitive cost because the rest area doesn't have the necessary electricity to allow for a charger.

Edited to add: I had posted about this in another thread and here's the link; one of my posts contains his response explaining why the rest area isn't an option.

Why would the state government be involved in placing an EV charging station? It doesn't place gas pumps, so why should it place an EV charger? Seems to me this is a matter best suited for the private sector.

Or if it's vital to place it near the gas station, use eminent domain to acquire the proper location.

If you read my friend's tweets, you'll see it has something to do with ensuring continued access to federal highway funding. I don't know the full background beyond what his tweets say about it.

[jeffandnicole]

I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.

I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.

There's no law saying rest areas need to be in rural areas. Wisconsin has a rest area/ welcome center just outside Beloit. Colorado has one Burlington, the first town westbound on I-70 entering the state. The Burlington rest area would make a good template on how to incorporate a rest area to promote tourism in small towns. Maybe the problem is the placement of rest areas, not the existence of rest areas.

So eliminate rest areas in rural areas where there's no place else around for people to use the bathroom, grab a soda or snack, or rest or a few minutes? I think you're totally missing the point of rest areas.

[Roadgeekteen]

I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.

I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.

There's no law saying rest areas need to be in rural areas. Wisconsin has a rest area/ welcome center just outside Beloit. Colorado has one Burlington, the first town westbound on I-70 entering the state. The Burlington rest area would make a good template on how to incorporate a rest area to promote tourism in small towns. Maybe the problem is the placement of rest areas, not the existence of rest areas.

So eliminate rest areas in rural areas where there's no place else around for people to use the bathroom, grab a soda or snack, or rest or a few minutes? I think you're totally missing the point of rest areas.

Playing devil's advocate here, can't people in rural areas stop at gas stations or convenience stores for these things?

[Road Hog]

Arkansas closed many of theirs in the late 1990s after a motorist was carjacked and killed at a rest stop near Morrilton. Plus it came to light that some of them, particularly in Central Arkansas, had become hangouts for those who observe a alternative lifestyle.

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.

I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.

There's no law saying rest areas need to be in rural areas. Wisconsin has a rest area/ welcome center just outside Beloit. Colorado has one Burlington, the first town westbound on I-70 entering the state. The Burlington rest area would make a good template on how to incorporate a rest area to promote tourism in small towns. Maybe the problem is the placement of rest areas, not the existence of rest areas.

So eliminate rest areas in rural areas where there's no place else around for people to use the bathroom, grab a soda or snack, or rest or a few minutes? I think you're totally missing the point of rest areas.

Playing devil's advocate here, can't people in rural areas stop at gas stations or convenience stores for these things?

Hence why I said what I said about the side of the road above.  Sometimes there isn't a restroom or a friendly business anywhere nearby.

[HighwayStar]

Arkansas closed many of theirs in the late 1990s after a motorist was carjacked and killed at a rest stop near Morrilton. Plus it came to light that some of them, particularly in Central Arkansas, had become hangouts for those who observe a alternative lifestyle.

Which goes with my prior comment, that if you have crime issues with rest areas the solution is not to punish the entire traveling public by shutting them down but to crack down on the criminal element and start handing out tough sentences.

[Roadgeekteen]

Arkansas closed many of theirs in the late 1990s after a motorist was carjacked and killed at a rest stop near Morrilton. Plus it came to light that some of them, particularly in Central Arkansas, had become hangouts for those who observe a alternative lifestyle.

Which goes with my prior comment, that if you have crime issues with rest areas the solution is not to punish the entire traveling public by shutting them down but to crack down on the criminal element and start handing out tough sentences.

HighwayStar for president- he's tough on crime.

[HighwayStar]

Arkansas closed many of theirs in the late 1990s after a motorist was carjacked and killed at a rest stop near Morrilton. Plus it came to light that some of them, particularly in Central Arkansas, had become hangouts for those who observe a alternative lifestyle.

Which goes with my prior comment, that if you have crime issues with rest areas the solution is not to punish the entire traveling public by shutting them down but to crack down on the criminal element and start handing out tough sentences.

HighwayStar for president- he's tough on crime.

Yep
Vote for me, vote for me
I want the nomination for the Presidency
Vote for me, vote for me
If I am elected, this is how it will be.
I'll cut your tax in half
I'll make the Russians laugh
I'll feed the hungry people everywhere.
I'll bring the highways back
New numbers and new rest areas
From Waikiki to old Delaware.

[Max Rockatansky]

We could just consolidate everything into the Alanland or under the iron first of FritzOwl instead?   I would imagine that Fritz has covered with something like a Rest Area every ten miles or so.

[HighwayStar]

We could just consolidate everything into the Alanland or under the iron first of FritzOwl instead?   I would imagine that Fritz has covered with something like a Rest Area every ten miles or so.

Even I would agree that is too much.   

[Roadgeekteen]

Arkansas closed many of theirs in the late 1990s after a motorist was carjacked and killed at a rest stop near Morrilton. Plus it came to light that some of them, particularly in Central Arkansas, had become hangouts for those who observe a alternative lifestyle.

Which goes with my prior comment, that if you have crime issues with rest areas the solution is not to punish the entire traveling public by shutting them down but to crack down on the criminal element and start handing out tough sentences.

HighwayStar for president- he's tough on crime.

Yep
Vote for me, vote for me
I want the nomination for the Presidency
Vote for me, vote for me
If I am elected, this is how it will be.
I'll cut your tax in half
I'll make the Russians laugh
I'll feed the hungry people everywhere.
I'll bring the highways back
New numbers and new rest areas
From Waikiki to old Delaware.

At first I though that this was someone else making fun of you.

[NWI_Irish96]

When the interstates were first constructed, almost none of the rural interchanges had services. Thus the rest areas that weren't doubling as welcome centers at state lines were placed in rural areas as the only source of public restrooms for long stretches. Now, many rural interchanges have at least a gas station if not more, so rest areas are getting less use.

They're still nice to have though. We just finished a family vacation to New England and there were three times during the trip where someone had to make a bathroom stop but we didn't need gas. Rest areas made for quicker stops than having to get off the interstate and pull into a gas station.

[HighwayStar]

Arkansas closed many of theirs in the late 1990s after a motorist was carjacked and killed at a rest stop near Morrilton. Plus it came to light that some of them, particularly in Central Arkansas, had become hangouts for those who observe a alternative lifestyle.

Which goes with my prior comment, that if you have crime issues with rest areas the solution is not to punish the entire traveling public by shutting them down but to crack down on the criminal element and start handing out tough sentences.

HighwayStar for president- he's tough on crime.

Yep
Vote for me, vote for me
I want the nomination for the Presidency
Vote for me, vote for me
If I am elected, this is how it will be.
I'll cut your tax in half
I'll make the Russians laugh
I'll feed the hungry people everywhere.
I'll bring the highways back
New numbers and new rest areas
From Waikiki to old Delaware.

At first I though that this was someone else making fun of you.

No just a slight modification of the old Chicago tune

[CtrlAltDel]

Rest areas made for quicker stops than having to get off the interstate and pull into a gas station.

Then there's places like Colorado where the bulk of the rest areas are located off of cross streets.

[jeffandnicole]

I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.

I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.

There's no law saying rest areas need to be in rural areas. Wisconsin has a rest area/ welcome center just outside Beloit. Colorado has one Burlington, the first town westbound on I-70 entering the state. The Burlington rest area would make a good template on how to incorporate a rest area to promote tourism in small towns. Maybe the problem is the placement of rest areas, not the existence of rest areas.

So eliminate rest areas in rural areas where there's no place else around for people to use the bathroom, grab a soda or snack, or rest or a few minutes? I think you're totally missing the point of rest areas.

Playing devil's advocate here, can't people in rural areas stop at gas stations or convenience stores for these things?

"When there's no place else around ".

I'm not talking rural northeast, where there's still Joe's Convenience store and a gas station with 2 pumps on the corner.  I'm talking Rural...when there's nothing for 50-100 miles.

[Roadgeekteen]

I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.

I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.

There's no law saying rest areas need to be in rural areas. Wisconsin has a rest area/ welcome center just outside Beloit. Colorado has one Burlington, the first town westbound on I-70 entering the state. The Burlington rest area would make a good template on how to incorporate a rest area to promote tourism in small towns. Maybe the problem is the placement of rest areas, not the existence of rest areas.

So eliminate rest areas in rural areas where there's no place else around for people to use the bathroom, grab a soda or snack, or rest or a few minutes? I think you're totally missing the point of rest areas.

Playing devil's advocate here, can't people in rural areas stop at gas stations or convenience stores for these things?

"When there's no place else around ".

I'm not talking rural northeast, where there's still Joe's Convenience store and a gas station with 2 pumps on the corner.  I'm talking Rural...when there's nothing for 50-100 miles.

But do those long gaps normally have rest areas in them?

[roadman65]

There is a rest area (called a travel center by MDSHA signing) in Baltimore, MD on I-95.  It is run by a hotel company (or a hotel management company anyway), a fuel company, and a local retail vendor and allows Greyhound Buses to make a stop there. 

Its near the Fort McHenry Tunnel and can be also accessed from NB I-895 at O Donnell Street exit, but unsigned from it though.

[CtrlAltDel]

There is a rest area (called a travel center by MDSHA signing) in Baltimore, MD on I-95.  It is run by a hotel company (or a hotel management company anyway), a fuel company, and a local retail vendor and allows Greyhound Buses to make a stop there. 

Its near the Fort McHenry Tunnel and can be also accessed from NB I-895 at O Donnell Street exit, but unsigned from it though.

That is a weird travel center. Trucks don't seem to be allowed, and it is readily accessible by surface streets. It's basically just a run of the mill hotel complex.

[hbelkins]

Arkansas closed many of theirs in the late 1990s after a motorist was carjacked and killed at a rest stop near Morrilton. Plus it came to light that some of them, particularly in Central Arkansas, had become hangouts for those who observe a alternative lifestyle.

Which goes with my prior comment, that if you have crime issues with rest areas the solution is not to punish the entire traveling public by shutting them down but to crack down on the criminal element and start handing out tough sentences.

HighwayStar for president- he's tough on crime.

Yep
Vote for me, vote for me
I want the nomination for the Presidency
Vote for me, vote for me
If I am elected, this is how it will be.
I'll cut your tax in half
I'll make the Russians laugh
I'll feed the hungry people everywhere.
I'll bring the highways back
New numbers and new rest areas
From Waikiki to old Delaware.

At first I though that this was someone else making fun of you.

No just a slight modification of the old Chicago tune

It's been more than one year since 1977, and Detroit still hasn't built new cars that run on beer.