Speed Kills Your Pocketbook

[JayhawkCO]

Math lies all the time.  Lies, damn lies and statistics...

Well, if you find a lie in my specific math above, feel free to call it out.

Chris

[Rothman]

Math lies all the time.  Lies, damn lies and statistics...

Well, if you find a lie in my specific math above, feel free to call it out.

Chris

Lies.

[JayhawkCO]

Math lies all the time.  Lies, damn lies and statistics...

Well, if you find a lie in my specific math above, feel free to call it out.

Chris

Lies.

I prefer to utilize the damn lies, thanks.

Chris

[jeffandnicole]

Math lies all the time.  Lies, damn lies and statistics...

Well, if you find a lie in my specific math above, feel free to call it out.

Chris

The math is sound. Your estimates are off, so your math is off.

[kphoger]

Lies.

You know, I'm starting to think you keep a jar of bugs in the cellar–just so, every so often, you can take one out, put it up your ass, and then post on here.

Some people probably think the same thing about me...

[JayhawkCO]

Math lies all the time.  Lies, damn lies and statistics...

Well, if you find a lie in my specific math above, feel free to call it out.

Chris

The math is sound. Your estimates are off, so your math is off.

Which estimates are off?

Chris

[JayhawkCO]

Not surprised in a screwed up state like that. Didn't they give a teen 90 days in jail + sex offender registration because a girl lied about her age? I will never drive in Michigan, Virginia, or North Carolina. Luckily here in NJ, the maximum license points for any amount over the limit is 5. The original concept though was not stupid. Setting speed limits based on the 85th percentile is basically the only rational method. Actually I think I said it backward, it is more like 1 mph every 2 seconds as a slow down rate from drag. Thankfully Waze warns you of cops half a mile away which is more than enough time with my braking power. And if my car could, I would go far faster than 120, that's a promise. Those cops would have to work to catch up to me from a standstill.

Chris

[renegade]

Not surprised in a screwed up state like that. Didn't they give a teen 90 days in jail + sex offender registration because a girl lied about her age? I will never drive in Michigan, Virginia, or North Carolina. Luckily here in NJ, the maximum license points for any amount over the limit is 5. The original concept though was not stupid. Setting speed limits based on the 85th percentile is basically the only rational method. Actually I think I said it backward, it is more like 1 mph every 2 seconds as a slow down rate from drag. Thankfully Waze warns you of cops half a mile away which is more than enough time with my braking power. And if my car could, I would go far faster than 120, that's a promise. Those cops would have to work to catch up to me from a standstill.

The sex offender part of that has jack shit to do with anything discussed in this thread up to this point, so I'll just go ahead and dismiss it without comment.  As for the second part, no one asked you to come to any of the states you chose to outline.  In fact, I'd prefer you don't come to my state, especially if your driving habits are anything like the trash you spout.  Having said that, the rest of the paragraph is "blah blah blah blah,"   and I don't want devote any more time to this thread.

Have a nice day!   

[jmacswimmer]

And if my car could, I would go far faster than 120, that's a promise.

You should talk to ethanman62187 - if he can let people drive 65 on VA 28 I-366, I'm sure you could work out a deal with him to let you drive >120 on the NJTP.

I will never drive in Michigan, Virginia, or North Carolina

So let's say you have to drive to, I don't know, Columbia SC for work...how would that work?  Would you stop in the middle of the Woodrow Wilson Bridge, call a tow truck, have it haul you to South of the Border, and then resume driving?

[sprjus4]

You should talk to ethanman62187 - if he can let people drive 65 on VA 28 I-366, I'm sure you could work out a deal with him to let you drive >120 on the NJTP.

In fairness, VA-28 should be 65 mph. But point understood here 

[Flint1979]

Still would most likely take around 30 seconds at least. From my experience slowing down from those speeds without hitting the brake, friction alone tends to slow you down at about 2 mph per second.

If your vehicle has that much drag, speed isn't the only thing killing your pocketbook.  Gasoline is.  My Charger only slows by 1 mph every second-and-a-half.  In gear.

So there you go.  Same car as my example.  1.5 seconds X 60 mph to slow down = 90 seconds, which is way less than the 167 seconds that it would require to make it "cost effective" to boost up to 120 and then drop back down.

Chris

I thought the whole concept brought forth by the OP to be quite stupid, actually.  It takes way less fuel to cruise along at 60 than it does to jam it up to 120, then coast.  Besides, in my state, 120 mph would get him carted off to jail in a Michigan heartbeat.

I will never drive in Michigan, Virginia, or North Carolina.

The residents of Michigan, Virginia and North Carolina would like to thank you for that.

[sprjus4]

Virginia though LOL, go 79 in a 70 you may not even get a ticket, but dare to hit 86 mph, mandatory reckless ticket, and anything over 90 gets you 1 day in jail per mph over 90! As if these people think that thr effects of getting in a car accident at 70 is so much better than at 90..

Anything over 86 mph and/or 20 mph over is not a mandatory reckless ticket, despite what you think. It's up to the officer's discretion. Will they likely write reckless driving? Maybe. But it's not a guarantee or mandated by law.

Back when the law was only 80 mph (which, IMO, is far more ridiculous than 85 mph is), the city of Hopewell (famous speed trap on I-295) would not reckless driving tickets unless you exceeded 85 mph. Any tickets between 80 - 85 mph were merely speeding tickets. You can view public court records if you don't "believe" me. They publicly stated this and their ticketing history seems to back up this statement.

Meanwhile, cities like Emporia (famous speed trap on I-95) would automatically cite reckless at 81 mph or above. To comply with the new law, obviously, now they're forced to wait until 86 mph.

Again - it's up to the officer's discretion. State law does not mandate anything as far as who must get reckless based off solely speed.

[Flint1979]

Not surprised in a screwed up state like that. Didn't they give a teen 90 days in jail + sex offender registration because a girl lied about her age? I will never drive in Michigan, Virginia, or North Carolina. Luckily here in NJ, the maximum license points for any amount over the limit is 5. The original concept though was not stupid. Setting speed limits based on the 85th percentile is basically the only rational method. Actually I think I said it backward, it is more like 1 mph every 2 seconds as a slow down rate from drag. Thankfully Waze warns you of cops half a mile away which is more than enough time with my braking power. And if my car could, I would go far faster than 120, that's a promise. Those cops would have to work to catch up to me from a standstill.

The sex offender part of that has jack shit to do with anything discussed in this thread up to this point, so I'll just go ahead and dismiss it without comment.  As for the second part, no one asked you to come to any of the states you chose to outline.  In fact, I'd prefer you don't come to my state, especially if your driving habits are anything like the trash you spout.  Having said that, the rest of the paragraph is "blah blah blah blah,"   and I don't want devote any more time to this thread.

Have a nice day!   

Shows Michigan's irrationality. Even Virginia has other messed up laws on top of their extreme traffic penalties, such as lenient child abuse/allowing religious BS as an excuse to neglect kids..etc. North Carolina on the other hand, has very rational laws despite their weird speed limits and penalties. Michigan is not in the way of anything between two states, so unless someone lives in Buffalo, NY, and wanted to drive to Michigan directly on the other side of Canada, or to Chicago (even that you can just do I-90--->I-86-----> I-80..etc instead of going through Canada and Michigan) there is no reason anyone would have to drive through Michigan to get to another state. Why on earth would I get a job where I have to drive 600 miles to South Carolina every day? Maybe getting on that Fury325 rollercoaster is the only useful thing in the Carolinas. Virginia though LOL, go 79 in a 70 you may not even get a ticket, but dare to hit 86 mph, mandatory reckless ticket, and anything over 90 gets you 1 day in jail per mph over 90! As if these people think that thr effects of getting in a car accident at 70 is so much better than at 90..

First of all if someone lived in Buffalo and wanted to go to Chicago there isn't a change of Interstate required, you take I-90 the entire way.
Secondly what does driving 600 miles to South Carolina have to do with Michigan?
Thirdly what the hell is Michigan's irrationality that you speak of?

[sprjus4]

Virginia ain't getting my toll money in the "express lanes", neither is that $112 Pennsylvania Turnpike.

Nobody is forcing you to use the HO/T lanes. I've commuted throughout Northern Virginia numerous times and never paid the toll / used the lanes except when I was HOV-3 and was exempt at times. The HO/T lanes down here in Norfolk, on the other hand, I've used a number of times, given the rate is usually around $0.50 - $2.00 during peak hours, and can often avoid congestion on the mainline. It's also posted at 65 mph vs. 55 mph on the mainline. It's a low toll that's worth it at most times. Not to mention, off peak there's no toll (this may change in the future, however). HOV-2+ is always free.

As for the Pennsylvania Turnpike, the toll rate is $47 with E-ZPass, not $112. It's also 360 miles long (not saying the toll per mile isn't high, but it's not $100+ overall).

[sprjus4]

Even 86 mph is a little low to consider reckless though. The cops may have discretion, but am not sure if judges in traffic courts have to sentence them as if they committed a reckless driving charge, after a certain amount over, despite whether the cops wrote the ticket as such. I don't know, am not a legal expert, but getting jail time is very common in VA even for low level speeding.

They don't. I know someone who got an 80 / 55 mph (on an underposted rural divided highway - no other traffic around), and it was a mere speeding ticket. Paid off as a speeding ticket. No reckless charge. Could the officer have written reckless driving? Easily. That's 25 mph over. But he used his discretion to indicate the offense was not reckless in nature, therefore did not charge reckless.

Do you have a source for the last statement?

[jmacswimmer]

Virginia ain't getting my toll money in the "express lanes", neither is that $112 Pennsylvania Turnpike.

Nobody is forcing you to use the HO/T lanes. I've commuted throughout Northern Virginia numerous times and never paid the toll / used the lanes except when I was HOV-3 and was exempt at times. The HO/T lanes down here in Norfolk, on the other hand, I've used a number of times, given the rate is usually around $0.50 - $2.00 during peak hours, and can often avoid congestion on the mainline. It's also posted at 65 mph vs. 55 mph on the mainline. It's a low toll that's worth it at most times. Not to mention, off peak there's no toll (this may change in the future, however). HOV-2+ is always free.

As for the Pennsylvania Turnpike, the toll rate is $47 with E-ZPass, not $112. It's also 360 miles long (not saying the toll per mile isn't high, but it's not $100+ overall).

Not to mention, the PATP (with E-ZPass) is actually comparable to the NJTP on a per-mile basis (and of course, the NJTP is roughly 1/3 the length of the PATP).  Does the NJTP get any of your toll money?

(FWIW, the toll-by-plate rate for all 360 miles is $95.30 EB/$90.50 WB.  Which I completely agree is ridiculous, but now I'm just objectively curious where the $112 came from.)

[kphoger]

I will never drive in Michigan, Virginia, or North Carolina.

Clue:

If you're at the point of flat-out refusing to drive in multiple states, then the problem does not lie with how those states enforce laws.  The problem lies with you.

[JayhawkCO]

Not surprised in a screwed up state like that. Didn't they give a teen 90 days in jail + sex offender registration because a girl lied about her age? I will never drive in Michigan, Virginia, or North Carolina. Luckily here in NJ, the maximum license points for any amount over the limit is 5. The original concept though was not stupid. Setting speed limits based on the 85th percentile is basically the only rational method. Actually I think I said it backward, it is more like 1 mph every 2 seconds as a slow down rate from drag. Thankfully Waze warns you of cops half a mile away which is more than enough time with my braking power. And if my car could, I would go far faster than 120, that's a promise. Those cops would have to work to catch up to me from a standstill.

The sex offender part of that has jack shit to do with anything discussed in this thread up to this point, so I'll just go ahead and dismiss it without comment.  As for the second part, no one asked you to come to any of the states you chose to outline.  In fact, I'd prefer you don't come to my state, especially if your driving habits are anything like the trash you spout.  Having said that, the rest of the paragraph is "blah blah blah blah,"   and I don't want devote any more time to this thread.

Have a nice day!   

Shows Michigan's irrationality. Even Virginia has other messed up laws on top of their extreme traffic penalties, such as lenient child abuse/allowing religious BS as an excuse to neglect kids..etc. North Carolina on the other hand, has very rational laws despite their weird speed limits and penalties. Michigan is not in the way of anything between two states, so unless someone lives in Buffalo, NY, and wanted to drive to Michigan directly on the other side of Canada, or to Chicago (even that you can just do I-90--->I-86-----> I-80..etc instead of going through Canada and Michigan) there is no reason anyone would have to drive through Michigan to get to another state. Why on earth would I get a job where I have to drive 600 miles to South Carolina every day? Maybe getting on that Fury325 rollercoaster is the only useful thing in the Carolinas. Virginia though LOL, go 79 in a 70 you may not even get a ticket, but dare to hit 86 mph, mandatory reckless ticket, and anything over 90 gets you 1 day in jail per mph over 90! As if these people think that the effects of getting in a car accident at 70 is so much better than at 90..

Chris

[kphoger]

Not surprised in a screwed up state like that. Didn't they give a teen 90 days in jail + sex offender registration because a girl lied about her age? I will never drive in Michigan, Virginia, or North Carolina. Luckily here in NJ, the maximum license points for any amount over the limit is 5. The original concept though was not stupid. Setting speed limits based on the 85th percentile is basically the only rational method. Actually I think I said it backward, it is more like 1 mph every 2 seconds as a slow down rate from drag. Thankfully Waze warns you of cops half a mile away which is more than enough time with my braking power. And if my car could, I would go far faster than 120, that's a promise. Those cops would have to work to catch up to me from a standstill.

The sex offender part of that has jack shit to do with anything discussed in this thread up to this point, so I'll just go ahead and dismiss it without comment.  As for the second part, no one asked you to come to any of the states you chose to outline.  In fact, I'd prefer you don't come to my state, especially if your driving habits are anything like the trash you spout.  Having said that, the rest of the paragraph is "blah blah blah blah,"   and I don't want devote any more time to this thread.

Have a nice day!   

Shows Michigan's irrationality. Even Virginia has other messed up laws on top of their extreme traffic penalties, such as lenient child abuse/allowing religious BS as an excuse to neglect kids..etc. North Carolina on the other hand, has very rational laws despite their weird speed limits and penalties. Michigan is not in the way of anything between two states, so unless someone lives in Buffalo, NY, and wanted to drive to Michigan directly on the other side of Canada, or to Chicago (even that you can just do I-90--->I-86-----> I-80..etc instead of going through Canada and Michigan) there is no reason anyone would have to drive through Michigan to get to another state. Why on earth would I get a job where I have to drive 600 miles to South Carolina every day? Maybe getting on that Fury325 rollercoaster is the only useful thing in the Carolinas. Virginia though LOL, go 79 in a 70 you may not even get a ticket, but dare to hit 86 mph, mandatory reckless ticket, and anything over 90 gets you 1 day in jail per mph over 90! As if these people think that the effects of getting in a car accident at 70 is so much better than at 90..

How was that even a response to what you quoted |renegade| saying?  When did he say anything about driving through Michigan or working in South Carolina?

[kphoger]

I will never drive in Michigan, Virginia, or North Carolina.

Clue:

If you're at the point of flat-out refusing to drive in multiple states, then the problem does not lie with how those states enforce laws.  The problem lies with you.

I also have no reason to, there is no possible route between any two states you would have to take that would require going through Michigan, and unless you want to get covid no reason to head south!

So you've decided that you'll never have any reason to drive through Michigan until you die of old age?

If that's the case, then what point are you even making?

[jmacswimmer]

I typed in the first and last entry and exit points in the toll calculator website, but as I said, maybe it was including I-476.

Looks like Ohio to Clarks Summit is indeed $112.90 with toll-by-plate...again, not disagreeing that that is an absurd amount, but going from Youngstown to Scranton via this route is completely illogical.  I-80 to I-81 is the obvious routing here, but even I-76 to I-81 (which would incur $30.50 E-ZPass/$62.50 toll-by-plate) would make more sense than heading all the way to SE PA then sharply turning due north.

Now with contesting pricing coming to NYC, imagine paying three times to commute from NJ, the Turnpike, the crossings, and then just to enter Manhattan!

There are, of course, several options to get from North Jersey to Manhattan that don't involve driving & paying those tolls (or parking once you do reach Manhattan) - but I get the sense that like some other posters here, you wouldn't like any of them. 

[kphoger]

Funny.  I once lived in the Chicago suburbs and went camping in Rondeau Provincial Park (Ontario).  I'm curious to know how you would have driven there without going through Michigan.

My best friend in college also later asked me to be a groomsman in his wedding.  He got married in Michigan.  What would you do in such a situation?  Refuse to stand in your friend's wedding?

It just makes you sound idiotic when you say things like "I will never drive in..." as if you can predict everywhere you'll live and travel to between now and the end of your life.  And, if you flatly refuse to even drive in a state because of how their abuse laws and traffic enforcement differ from your ideal, then you're hardly a reasonable person starting out.  I have zero idea what the abuse laws are like in the states I visit, nor do I care.  And I have zero idea what the legal ramifications would be for going 120 mph, nor do I care.

Besides, which, answer my other question:  If you've really determined that you'll never have any reason to travel to Michigan, then what point are you trying to prove by saying you'll never go drive there?  I might as well say "I would never drive in Antarctica or on Mars."

[SectorZ]

I will never drive in Michigan, Virginia, or North Carolina.

Clue:

If you're at the point of flat-out refusing to drive in multiple states, then the problem does not lie with how those states enforce laws.  The problem lies with you.

I also have no reason to, there is no possible route between any two states you would have to take that would require going through Michigan, and unless you want to get covid no reason to head south!

So you've decided that you'll never have any reason to drive through Michigan until you die of old age?

If that's the case, then what point are you even making?

Yes, because the geometry of the US makes it completely unnecessary to ever pass through Michgian, the same way you would never pass through Key West Florida to go anywhere other than Key West, common sense. My initial point was that after hearing years ago about how the state victimized a 19 yo with jail+sex registration, who was essentially deceived+ catfished by an underage teen, I was not surprised at all that I would be chartered off to jail after going 120 mph because of the speed alone. Anything fun is forbidden and illegal!

I am going to let you in on some news. In all 50 states, someone 19 years old has banged a minor and gone to jail for it. I bet in all 50 states someone has gone to jail for driving 120 MPH as well.

[kphoger]

Anything fun is forbidden and illegal!

[sprjus4]

Well they shouldn't even be allowed to cite reckless just for 25 over. Traffic flow is often 30 over in NJ, and it wouldn't make sense to charge everyone with reckless driving. Even as the videos in my OP stated, making the already existing traffic speeds legal isn't extra dangerous, as most people will not go much faster than traffic flow. One should at least have to be doing some other dangerous activity in addition to speeding to be cited reckless, such as using a phone, weaving in and out, in wet weather.

I don't disagree with this point, speed alone should not be considered "reckless" , and the speed limits should be higher, but how does this back up the claim that 20 mph or over 85 mph is automatically reckless?