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What is Your States Most Famous Route?

Started by silverback1065, October 24, 2021, 11:11:18 AM

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Rothman

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 09:56:50 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 09:50:36 AM
Quote from: djsekani on November 11, 2021, 09:21:17 AM

Quote from: Flint1979 on November 11, 2021, 05:11:42 AM
Woodward is more famous than Eight Mile and it's really not even close.

Maybe to locals or road geeks. For everyone else, 8 Mile is exponentially more well-known than Woodward.
Yeah, the movie solidified this.

One of my favorite things that I showed my wife in Detroit circa 2019 was how lame Eight Mile is.  I accomplished this by taking her to where my Dad worked just west of I-275 at Haggerty Road.  She wasn't impressed by the Big Boy Statue, Target and some of the most generic white collar office buildings ever seen as the back drop. 

The Woodward Dream Cruise probably alone makes Woodward Avenue worlds more notable than Eight Mile.
Never heard of the dream cruise. :D
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.


JayhawkCO

Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 10:04:10 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 09:56:50 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 09:50:36 AM
Quote from: djsekani on November 11, 2021, 09:21:17 AM

Quote from: Flint1979 on November 11, 2021, 05:11:42 AM
Woodward is more famous than Eight Mile and it's really not even close.

Maybe to locals or road geeks. For everyone else, 8 Mile is exponentially more well-known than Woodward.
Yeah, the movie solidified this.

One of my favorite things that I showed my wife in Detroit circa 2019 was how lame Eight Mile is.  I accomplished this by taking her to where my Dad worked just west of I-275 at Haggerty Road.  She wasn't impressed by the Big Boy Statue, Target and some of the most generic white collar office buildings ever seen as the back drop. 

The Woodward Dream Cruise probably alone makes Woodward Avenue worlds more notable than Eight Mile.
Never heard of the dream cruise. :D

Nor have I.

Chris

Max Rockatansky

#177
One of the largest car shows in the country:

http://www.woodwarddreamcruise.com/

Basically it ends up being a cruise down Woodward Avenue.  Usually the cruise officially ends at the city limit of Detroit (ironically Eight Mile) but usually often unofficial keeps going into downtown. 

I don't know, it might be because I'm from Detroit but it's hard for me to accept Eight Mile Road as being the most notable due to it being a bad movie reference.  Michigan Avenue (US 12) and Trumbull Street are generally up there also because of the cross roads being where Tiger's Stadium was located.  Telegraph Road gets some note due to the connection to the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa. 

JayhawkCO

"Lose Yourself" from the 8 Mile movie is this generation's Freebird. 

Chris

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: jayhawkco on November 11, 2021, 10:51:41 AM
"Lose Yourself" from the 8 Mile movie is this generation's Freebird. 

Chris

Is it though?  I couldn't even name the cover song of the Eight Mile movie until you mentioned it.  I don't even know what Freebird off the top my head even is.

Rothman

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 10:57:56 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on November 11, 2021, 10:51:41 AM
"Lose Yourself" from the 8 Mile movie is this generation's Freebird. 

Chris

Is it though?  I couldn't even name the cover song of the Eight Mile movie until you mentioned it.  I don't even know what Freebird off the top my head even is.
Yeah.  "Lose Yourself" was and is huge.  Takes effort and having teenagers to break through our generational bubbles.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: jayhawkco on November 11, 2021, 10:51:41 AM
"Lose Yourself" from the 8 Mile movie is this generation's Freebird. 

Chris

Far more famous than Freebird. "Weird Al" didn't parody Freebird.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 11:01:45 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 10:57:56 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on November 11, 2021, 10:51:41 AM
"Lose Yourself" from the 8 Mile movie is this generation's Freebird. 

Chris

Is it though?  I couldn't even name the cover song of the Eight Mile movie until you mentioned it.  I don't even know what Freebird off the top my head even is.
Yeah.  "Lose Yourself" was and is huge.  Takes effort and having teenagers to break through our generational bubbles.

I haven't heard the song in years much less anything else written by Marshall Mathers.  Maybe I was too old for his music to really click with me. 

Rothman

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 12:02:51 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 11:01:45 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 10:57:56 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on November 11, 2021, 10:51:41 AM
"Lose Yourself" from the 8 Mile movie is this generation's Freebird. 

Chris

Is it though?  I couldn't even name the cover song of the Eight Mile movie until you mentioned it.  I don't even know what Freebird off the top my head even is.
Yeah.  "Lose Yourself" was and is huge.  Takes effort and having teenagers to break through our generational bubbles.

I haven't heard the song in years much less anything else written by Marshall Mathers.  Maybe I was too old for his music to really click with me.
Heh.  Hence my reference to "generational bubbles."
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

JayhawkCO

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 12:02:51 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 11:01:45 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 10:57:56 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on November 11, 2021, 10:51:41 AM
"Lose Yourself" from the 8 Mile movie is this generation's Freebird. 

Chris

Is it though?  I couldn't even name the cover song of the Eight Mile movie until you mentioned it.  I don't even know what Freebird off the top my head even is.
Yeah.  "Lose Yourself" was and is huge.  Takes effort and having teenagers to break through our generational bubbles.

I haven't heard the song in years much less anything else written by Marshall Mathers.  Maybe I was too old for his music to really click with me.

I'm your age.  His first album was probably my most listened music my junior year in high school.  For a song released in 1999, I would argue it's the most famous song from the 90's for teens nowadays. (My wife is a high school teacher, so I'm somewhat plugged in to Gen Z.)

Chris

7/8

Quote from: jayhawkco on November 11, 2021, 10:51:41 AM
"Lose Yourself" from the 8 Mile movie is this generation's Freebird. 

Chris



I also vote "Eight Mile" over Woodward, since I doubt anyone I know has even heard of Woodward lol.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 12:04:14 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 12:02:51 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 11:01:45 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 10:57:56 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on November 11, 2021, 10:51:41 AM
"Lose Yourself" from the 8 Mile movie is this generation's Freebird. 

Chris

Is it though?  I couldn't even name the cover song of the Eight Mile movie until you mentioned it.  I don't even know what Freebird off the top my head even is.
Yeah.  "Lose Yourself" was and is huge.  Takes effort and having teenagers to break through our generational bubbles.

I haven't heard the song in years much less anything else written by Marshall Mathers.  Maybe I was too old for his music to really click with me.
Heh.  Hence my reference to "generational bubbles."

But are you guys not within the ball park of my age?  Considering the movie 8 Mile came out in November 2002 I would have been 20 years old when I saw it with my older brother.  I don't think either of us (both Detroit natives) came away thinking much other than it was neat to see our home city in a movie besides Robocop.  I certainly don't remember either of us running out to buy the last Marshall Mathers album (although my brother was big into the first 50 album).

JayhawkCO

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 12:08:50 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 12:04:14 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 12:02:51 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 11:01:45 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 10:57:56 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on November 11, 2021, 10:51:41 AM
"Lose Yourself" from the 8 Mile movie is this generation's Freebird. 

Chris

Is it though?  I couldn't even name the cover song of the Eight Mile movie until you mentioned it.  I don't even know what Freebird off the top my head even is.
Yeah.  "Lose Yourself" was and is huge.  Takes effort and having teenagers to break through our generational bubbles.

I haven't heard the song in years much less anything else written by Marshall Mathers.  Maybe I was too old for his music to really click with me.
Heh.  Hence my reference to "generational bubbles."

But are you guys not within the ball park of my age?  Considering the movie 8 Mile came out in November 2002 I would have been 20 years old when I saw it with my older brother.  I don't think either of us (both Detroit natives) came away thinking much other than it was neat to see our home city in a movie besides Robocop.  I certainly don't remember either of us running out to buy the last Marshall Mathers album (although my brother was big into the first 50 album).

Obviously there's different experiences for everyone, but I certainly owned the first three Eminem albums.  Stan was pretty revolutionary at the time.  I listened to a lot of rap/hip hop at the time, but in the era of TRL, his music branched to pretty much every "group" in my high school.

Chris

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: jayhawkco on November 11, 2021, 12:11:36 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 12:08:50 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 12:04:14 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 12:02:51 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 11:01:45 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 10:57:56 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on November 11, 2021, 10:51:41 AM
"Lose Yourself" from the 8 Mile movie is this generation's Freebird. 

Chris

Is it though?  I couldn't even name the cover song of the Eight Mile movie until you mentioned it.  I don't even know what Freebird off the top my head even is.
Yeah.  "Lose Yourself" was and is huge.  Takes effort and having teenagers to break through our generational bubbles.

I haven't heard the song in years much less anything else written by Marshall Mathers.  Maybe I was too old for his music to really click with me.
Heh.  Hence my reference to "generational bubbles."

But are you guys not within the ball park of my age?  Considering the movie 8 Mile came out in November 2002 I would have been 20 years old when I saw it with my older brother.  I don't think either of us (both Detroit natives) came away thinking much other than it was neat to see our home city in a movie besides Robocop.  I certainly don't remember either of us running out to buy the last Marshall Mathers album (although my brother was big into the first 50 album).

Obviously there's different experiences for everyone, but I certainly owned the first three Eminem albums.  Stan was pretty revolutionary at the time.  I listened to a lot of rap/hip hop at the time, but in the era of TRL, his music branched to pretty much every "group" in my high school.

Chris

Seems it.  Most people who find out I'm from Detroit will ask if I'm into rap/hip hop/Eminem music.  From what I gathered there is a perception of people who grew up in or around Detroit regarding music that doesn't really line up with reality.  I've actually found those music genres (also Eminem) to be far more relevant for people who grew up the west coast (hence the example of my wife). 

JayhawkCO

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 12:25:46 PM
Seems it.  Most people who find out I'm from Detroit will ask if I'm into rap/hip hop/Eminem music.  From what I gathered there is a perception of people who grew up in or around Detroit regarding music that doesn't really line up with reality.  I've actually found those music genres (also Eminem) to be far more relevant for people who grew up the west coast (hence the example of my wife).

Just for a data point, I was in high school in both Denver and Jacksonville, FL, and then went to college in Kansas, so three pretty different demographics and Em was huge in all three for my peer group.

Chris

djsekani

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 12:08:50 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 12:04:14 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 12:02:51 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 11:01:45 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 10:57:56 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on November 11, 2021, 10:51:41 AM
"Lose Yourself" from the 8 Mile movie is this generation's Freebird. 

Chris

Is it though?  I couldn't even name the cover song of the Eight Mile movie until you mentioned it.  I don't even know what Freebird off the top my head even is.
Yeah.  "Lose Yourself" was and is huge.  Takes effort and having teenagers to break through our generational bubbles.

I haven't heard the song in years much less anything else written by Marshall Mathers.  Maybe I was too old for his music to really click with me.
Heh.  Hence my reference to "generational bubbles."

But are you guys not within the ball park of my age?  Considering the movie 8 Mile came out in November 2002 I would have been 20 years old when I saw it with my older brother.  I don't think either of us (both Detroit natives) came away thinking much other than it was neat to see our home city in a movie besides Robocop.  I certainly don't remember either of us running out to buy the last Marshall Mathers album (although my brother was big into the first 50 album).

I'm also a Detroit native (and I think older than you), so I can understand your disconnect. The movie wasn't a big deal to me beyond recognizing a few of the filming locations, but to a certain demographic it really meant something. I don't think anyone know where or what 8 Mile was before Eminem made it famous. Growing up, I knew it as the eight-lane moat between the city and the suburbs, and it was otherwise unremarkable.

At least Detroit is now in good company; most native Angelenos don't get what the big deal is with Hollywood Boulevard either.

Flint1979

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 09:56:50 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 09:50:36 AM
Quote from: djsekani on November 11, 2021, 09:21:17 AM

Quote from: Flint1979 on November 11, 2021, 05:11:42 AM
Woodward is more famous than Eight Mile and it's really not even close.

Maybe to locals or road geeks. For everyone else, 8 Mile is exponentially more well-known than Woodward.
Yeah, the movie solidified this.

One of my favorite things that I showed my wife in Detroit circa 2019 was how lame Eight Mile is.  I accomplished this by taking her to where my Dad worked just west of I-275 at Haggerty Road.  She wasn't impressed by the Big Boy Statue, Target and some of the most generic white collar office buildings ever seen as the back drop. 

The Woodward Dream Cruise probably alone makes Woodward Avenue worlds more notable than Eight Mile.
It's the truth. Eight Mile is vastly overrated and there is nothing impressive about it. It's just a highway that rides the northern city limits of Detroit and separates the city from the suburbs simple as that. As a native Detroiter I don't even have to tell you about either street but that's how I feel about Eight Mile. Woodward is the main drag of SE Michigan, not even Gratiot or Grand River can compete with it.

Flint1979

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 10:34:06 AM
One of the largest car shows in the country:

http://www.woodwarddreamcruise.com/

Basically it ends up being a cruise down Woodward Avenue.  Usually the cruise officially ends at the city limit of Detroit (ironically Eight Mile) but usually often unofficial keeps going into downtown. 

I don't know, it might be because I'm from Detroit but it's hard for me to accept Eight Mile Road as being the most notable due to it being a bad movie reference.  Michigan Avenue (US 12) and Trumbull Street are generally up there also because of the cross roads being where Tiger's Stadium was located.  Telegraph Road gets some note due to the connection to the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa.
I drove in that in August from Pontiac to downtown and it took me about four hours to get downtown but it was worth it.  Not only that but it's also the street that the flagship Hudson's store sat on, a massive 30 story department store.

If I was to rattle off streets in Detroit off the top of my head I'd probably go like this Woodward, Gratiot, Grand River, Jefferson, Michigan, Fort, Van Dyke, Greenfield, Livernois, Evergreen, Schaefer, Schoenherr, Telegraph, I honestly don't know when I'd really think of Eight Mile because I could keep going before I get to Eight Mile.

Flint1979

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 12:08:50 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 12:04:14 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 12:02:51 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 11:01:45 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 10:57:56 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on November 11, 2021, 10:51:41 AM
"Lose Yourself" from the 8 Mile movie is this generation's Freebird. 

Chris

Is it though?  I couldn't even name the cover song of the Eight Mile movie until you mentioned it.  I don't even know what Freebird off the top my head even is.
Yeah.  "Lose Yourself" was and is huge.  Takes effort and having teenagers to break through our generational bubbles.

I haven't heard the song in years much less anything else written by Marshall Mathers.  Maybe I was too old for his music to really click with me.
Heh.  Hence my reference to "generational bubbles."

But are you guys not within the ball park of my age?  Considering the movie 8 Mile came out in November 2002 I would have been 20 years old when I saw it with my older brother.  I don't think either of us (both Detroit natives) came away thinking much other than it was neat to see our home city in a movie besides Robocop.  I certainly don't remember either of us running out to buy the last Marshall Mathers album (although my brother was big into the first 50 album).
I was 23 when it came out. I watched it once, in fact I don't even know if I finished watching it because I thought it was one of the stupidest movies I had ever seen. I watched it thinking it was going to show stuff in Detroit and thought it was cool at the time but after I started watching it the movie really made no sense to me and there is no trailer park in Warren, Michigan off Eight Mile so Marshall may have grown up off Eight Mile but I can't find no evidence of a trailer park ever being on the Warren side of Eight Mile. I mean Eight Mile anywhere between Dequindre and Hayes.

I liked Detroit Rock City better.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Flint1979 on November 11, 2021, 04:58:59 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 12:08:50 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 12:04:14 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 12:02:51 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 11:01:45 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 10:57:56 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on November 11, 2021, 10:51:41 AM
"Lose Yourself" from the 8 Mile movie is this generation's Freebird. 

Chris

Is it though?  I couldn't even name the cover song of the Eight Mile movie until you mentioned it.  I don't even know what Freebird off the top my head even is.
Yeah.  "Lose Yourself" was and is huge.  Takes effort and having teenagers to break through our generational bubbles.

I haven't heard the song in years much less anything else written by Marshall Mathers.  Maybe I was too old for his music to really click with me.
Heh.  Hence my reference to "generational bubbles."

But are you guys not within the ball park of my age?  Considering the movie 8 Mile came out in November 2002 I would have been 20 years old when I saw it with my older brother.  I don't think either of us (both Detroit natives) came away thinking much other than it was neat to see our home city in a movie besides Robocop.  I certainly don't remember either of us running out to buy the last Marshall Mathers album (although my brother was big into the first 50 album).
I was 23 when it came out. I watched it once, in fact I don't even know if I finished watching it because I thought it was one of the stupidest movies I had ever seen. I watched it thinking it was going to show stuff in Detroit and thought it was cool at the time but after I started watching it the movie really made no sense to me and there is no trailer park in Warren, Michigan off Eight Mile so Marshall may have grown up off Eight Mile but I can't find no evidence of a trailer park ever being on the Warren side of Eight Mile. I mean Eight Mile anywhere between Dequindre and Hayes.

I liked Detroit Rock City better.

Both were kind average-to-bad movies if I was going to give a critique.  I guess with 8 Mile the story was supposed to be semi-autobiographical account of Marshall Mathers life?  The portrayal of Eight Mile Road is definitely way off of the actual arterial highway reality.  But when hasn't Hollywood taken artistic license to make things seem more than they actually are?

Flint1979

Just go search Google and put in, "What is the most famous street in Michigan?" Look what comes up.

hotdogPi

Quote from: Flint1979 on November 11, 2021, 05:20:14 PM
Just go search Google and put in, "What is the most famous street in Michigan?" Look what comes up.

While I have no reason to doubt this one, I have seen incorrect answers in the answer box. (They usually occur when the answer is numerical and it picks the wrong number from the text.)
Clinched

Traveled, plus
US 13, 44, 50
MA 22, 35, 40, 107, 109, 126, 141, 159
NH 27, 111A(E); CA 133; NY 366; GA 42, 140; FL A1A, 7; CT 32; VT 2A, 5A; PA 3, 51, 60, QC 162, 165, 263; 🇬🇧A100, A3211, A3213, A3215, A4222; 🇫🇷95 D316

Lowest untraveled: 25

Rothman

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 12:08:50 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 12:04:14 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 12:02:51 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2021, 11:01:45 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2021, 10:57:56 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on November 11, 2021, 10:51:41 AM
"Lose Yourself" from the 8 Mile movie is this generation's Freebird. 

Chris

Is it though?  I couldn't even name the cover song of the Eight Mile movie until you mentioned it.  I don't even know what Freebird off the top my head even is.
Yeah.  "Lose Yourself" was and is huge.  Takes effort and having teenagers to break through our generational bubbles.

I haven't heard the song in years much less anything else written by Marshall Mathers.  Maybe I was too old for his music to really click with me.
Heh.  Hence my reference to "generational bubbles."

But are you guys not within the ball park of my age?  Considering the movie 8 Mile came out in November 2002 I would have been 20 years old when I saw it with my older brother.  I don't think either of us (both Detroit natives) came away thinking much other than it was neat to see our home city in a movie besides Robocop.  I certainly don't remember either of us running out to buy the last Marshall Mathers album (although my brother was big into the first 50 album).
That's why I brought up having teenagers.  I'm older than you.  My kids were teenagers during the height of Mr. Mathers' career.  Without them, I would have shrugged it off, too, but the fact of the matter is that his movie 8 Mile and the attention it got put 8 Mile in the younger generation's psyches.

No matter what the anticlimactic experience is of the road itself, the fact of the matter is 8 Mile's now the most famous road in Detroit by far.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

GaryV


michravera

Quote from: Techknow on November 11, 2021, 12:11:50 AM
Quote from: michravera on November 09, 2021, 10:50:53 PM
Quote from: skluth on November 09, 2021, 07:26:55 PM
Quote from: michravera on October 31, 2021, 01:57:57 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 29, 2021, 01:53:22 PM
Quote from: michravera on October 29, 2021, 01:45:05 PM
Quote from: oscar on October 24, 2021, 12:32:36 PM
Hawaii:

Interstate: H-3
US route: n/a
State route: HI 360 (the most interesting part of the Hana Hwy)

Alaska:

Interstate: Almost nobody knows Alaska even has Interstates.
US route: n/a
State route: AK 11, from "Ice Road Truckers" rather than personal experience; otherwise, AK 3 (Parks Hwy). While the Alaska Highway (part of AK 2) is more famous overall, most of it is in Canada.

California:

State route: CA 1, not even close

I'll add I-5 and US-101.

Here's a question: Which counties in California are neither on I-5 nor have a one-road access to I-5?

Sierra County comes to mind.

I-80 (which intersects I-5 at approximately a right angle) nips Sierra county. You may be right that most of Sierra county can't get to I-5 via a single road, but you certaintly can get to Sierra county by driving on just one road from I-5.
I think Inyo County qualifies.
CASR-14?
I started to think of San Mateo county and realized you have to take multiple freeways to go east but CA-1 and US 101 both go south and terminate to I-5.

What about San Benito county? Only county route J1 goes east... oh US-101

I think Inyo County is the only one that qualifies because CA-14 north terminates a few miles south of the county border

Otherwise I don't think there's any route in California that is near famous as CA-1, there are probably some routes that are as infamous though!

It looked to me on GoogleMaps that CASR-14 and US-395 are concurrently signed inside Inyo County. I haven't been there in a LOOOOOONG time, so I don't know the current situation on the ground.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.