ACCESS Oklahoma

[Bobby5280]

I'm afraid to even visit the Facebook group because I don't feel like getting really pissed off this close to bed time.

Honestly, if the citizens in Norman (and Moore) truly want to block construction of the East to West Connector and the Kickapoo Turnpike then, well, fuck 'em. The OTA should re-direct their capital improvement efforts elsewhere in locations the efforts would be more welcome. Same goes for ODOT. My part of Oklahoma needs a lot of help with its roads. Let the OTA sink a good bit of money into I-44 to the South of Lawton for one thing. Rogers Lane in Lawton needs to be turned into a proper freeway rather than the glorified street with two exits that it is now. We need a South bypass for our industrial trucking traffic. People in my region have asked about a better link between Lawton and Ardmore via Duncan.

[Plutonic Panda]

I don't think it's Moore. It's just Norman. This route is more important to regional travel than it is just for Norman. I said in my post this

This project needs to happen. There is a huge gap between limited access freeways from I-240 even *if* Highway 9 becomes a fully controlled access facility. And that's a big if.

If this project is successfully stopped development will still happen and Indian Hills will become a traffic choked road with future generations wonder why the hell nothing was done just like the current situation Edmond is in today.

It is a blessing to have a route like this that is open for transportation uses unlike edmond that is choked with development.

I fully support this project and will use it if built. I'm not opposed to eminent domaine. I own land along CA-138 and am looking at having to sell to Caltrans for freeway expansion. I fully support it.

[Scott5114]

Heh. You definitely weren't doing yourself any favors mentioning California. There's no place conservative Okies hate worse (other than possibly Texas).

[Great Lakes Roads]

Wow. If that's their reason for removing your post then that tells me they would refuse to listen to anything constructive about any issue.

I guess they banned me from their group because I can't even go to their group now. But if you're not banned you can go there and look at the group rules they claimed I violated by "hindering"  their goal of "abolishing"  the OTA or stopping this project whichever it was.

lol, and they banned me from their group as well because I live outside of Oklahoma, and I got chewed out in the comments on supporting the expansion plan in that area. 

[bugo]

The OTA doesn't fuck around. Remember, some nimbys tried to stop the first segment of the Creek Turnpike, but the OTA just laughed at them.  They even destroyed some state property during their "protests" but the road is there anyway. They won't be able to stop these new turnpikes.

[skluth]

It's not clear that's a united group. There are signs against toll roads, not against freeways in general. It's probably some anti-toll, some environmentalists, some NIMBYs and BANANAs, and some who just reflexively protest against anything. It could be just a lot of squeaky wheels. You can probably work with the mainstream environmentalists to mitigate their concerns which should satisfy most of the moderates. You probably can't work with the extreme environmentalists (who really fall into the BANANA category) or the other groups but the anti-toll group can probably be ignored. The worst thing OTA could do though is to ignore all the complaints which will just solidify the opposition.

My respect to Plutonic Panda for trying to work with them. I consider you one of the more moderate people here and if they can't work with you they probably won't work with anyone.

[Scott5114]

OTA doesn't play by the same rules ODOT does. Since they have their own bonding authority and don't rely on any FHWA money, the Tenth Amendment allows them to straight-up ignore a lot of the regulations we're used to state DOTs having to follow (and that protestors tend to use as tools to force the cancellation of projects), including some of the EIS requirements. Like bugo says, historically OTA has not given the slightest shit about any opposition.

[Bobby5280]

Apparently the OTA was already pretty deep into their corridor studies before they made a public announcement about Access Oklahoma. The turnpike paths shown on the web site map are still preliminary. However, I can't see anything obviouly wrong about where they proposed to build the East-to-West Connector or Kickapoo Turnpike extension.

West Indian Hills Road looks like the absolute best path for the East-to-West Connector. It's the least developed East-West arterial in the Moore-Norman area and is straight East of the I-44/OK-37 interchnage in Newcastle. I think the OTA ought to start buying up ROW right now. The existing 2-lane street can function as the South half of the frontage roads to the West of I-35. East of I-35 the path might have to shift to where the existing street turns into the North half of the frontage roads.

I'm sure Gene Love and the rest of the OTA board of directors takes public opposition seriously. But, again, people who are in favor of this turnpike plan are NOT being heard at all. Love said there is a lot of people in the OKC area and state-wide who want this plan to go forward. With better super highway connectivity along the South and East sides of the OKC metro those new turnpikes could un-cork a boom in new business and residential developments in those parts of OKC metro area.

[I-55]

But, again, people who are in favor of this turnpike plan are NOT being heard at all.

Googling "Access Oklahoma" won't turn up the accessoklahoma.com site (even when I tried pages 2 and 3), but only the news articles critical of the plan were shown.

[rte66man]

The OTA doesn't fuck around. Remember, some nimbys tried to stop the first segment of the Creek Turnpike, but the OTA just laughed at them.  They even destroyed some state property during their "protests" but the road is there anyway. They won't be able to stop these new turnpikes.

The Creek situation was different.  A freeway/turnpike had been planned for the 96th St corridor since the 1950's. It even showed up on plats for various housing additions. Anyone who bought a home in that area and didn't know about this had no grounds to protest.

[Plutonic Panda]

Last minute bill filed to get the OTA to do what they already did but I doubt Stitt signs it as he seems to want this be part of his legacy.

https://okcfox.com/news/local/bill-requiring-ota-to-justify-norman-turnpike-route-passes-senate-03-25-2022

[In_Correct]

The OTA doesn't fuck around. Remember, some nimbys tried to stop the first segment of the Creek Turnpike, but the OTA just laughed at them.  They even destroyed some state property during their "protests" but the road is there anyway. They won't be able to stop these new turnpikes.

OTA doesn't play by the same rules ODOT does. Since they have their own bonding authority and don't rely on any FHWA money, the Tenth Amendment allows them to straight-up ignore a lot of the regulations we're used to state DOTs having to follow (and that protestors tend to use as tools to force the cancellation of projects), including some of the EIS requirements. Like bugo says, historically OTA has not given the slightest shit about any opposition.

The OTA doesn't fuck around. Remember, some nimbys tried to stop the first segment of the Creek Turnpike, but the OTA just laughed at them.  They even destroyed some state property during their "protests" but the road is there anyway. They won't be able to stop these new turnpikes.

The Creek situation was different.  A freeway/turnpike had been planned for the 96th St corridor since the 1950's. It even showed up on plats for various housing additions. Anyone who bought a home in that area and didn't know about this had no grounds to protest.

That is a reason why I Embrace Beautiful Toll Roads.

But, again, people who are in favor of this turnpike plan are NOT being heard at all.

Googling "Access Oklahoma" won't turn up the accessoklahoma.com site (even when I tried pages 2 and 3), but only the news articles critical of the plan were shown.

That is a reason why I Oppose Google.

[Elm]

But, again, people who are in favor of this turnpike plan are NOT being heard at all.

Googling "Access Oklahoma" won't turn up the accessoklahoma.com site (even when I tried pages 2 and 3), but only the news articles critical of the plan were shown.

That is a reason why I Oppose Google.

It looks like the Access Oklahoma site's pages have a 'noindex' tag, which Google interprets as a request to exclude it from search results.

Someone may have forgot it was there, or to remove it after the public announcement.

[Bobby5280]

The site is easy enough to reach via the OTA's main PikePass web site.

[Scott5114]

It looks like the Access Oklahoma site's pages have a 'noindex' tag, which Google interprets as a request to exclude it from search results.

That's Oklahoma government all right. 

[SoonerCowboy]

I'm afraid to even visit the Facebook group because I don't feel like getting really pissed off this close to bed time.

Honestly, if the citizens in Norman (and Moore) truly want to block construction of the East to West Connector and the Kickapoo Turnpike then, well, fuck 'em. The OTA should re-direct their capital improvement efforts elsewhere in locations the efforts would be more welcome. Same goes for ODOT. My part of Oklahoma needs a lot of help with its roads. Let the OTA sink a good bit of money into I-44 to the South of Lawton for one thing. Rogers Lane in Lawton needs to be turned into a proper freeway rather than the glorified street with two exits that it is now. We need a South bypass for our industrial trucking traffic. People in my region have asked about a better link between Lawton and Ardmore via Duncan.

I agree Bobby, it does seem like southwestern Oklahoma gets shunned about progress. I would personally like to see a southern Oklahoma east/west turnpike that connects to I-44 near Randlett and goes east to I-35 and continue east to connect to Durant at US 69/75 (future I-45). Possibly to continue east to the Indian nation turnpike at Hugo.

[Bobby5280]

For an East-West turnpike across much of Southern Oklahoma, I'd prefer a combination of a freeway/turnpike that more directly linked the larger cities and towns in the Southern part of the state, starting at Altus, going to Lawton, dipping below Duncan on the way to Ardmore, then on to Durant, Hugo and Idabel. Chances are nil such a highway would ever happen until population growth in cities like Lawton, Altus, Duncan, Ardmore and Durant shoots up dramatically.

If I could have my way at building a new long distance turnpike in Oklahoma I would build one loosely parallel to the OK-3 corridor from Woodward thru OKC and down thru Ada, Atoka and Antlers before pushing down to Idabel and a connection into Arkansas with I-49 near Ashdown. The bigger picture idea in this is creating a diagonal Interstate from the Denver area down thru OKC to the Texarkana area to hook into I-49 on the way to the Gulf of Mexico. It would be an alternative Ports to Plains Corridor, but also something that would directly connect the Front Range Cities in Colorado with the Deep South. The route would do even more to underscore the importance of Oklahoma City as a major, central hub of the Interstate highway system.

[bugo]

And still no US 69 turnpike...

[Bobby5280]

I think they'll fart around until Arkansas starts seriously building out I-49 between Texarkana and Fort Smith. I think there is a decent chance a finished I-49 could pull a good bit of traffic (and business that goes with it) off of US-69. The anti freeway folks in Atoka and Stringtown could see a lot fewer visitors. And the @$$holes running speed traps there will be getting less ticket revenue. Let those places dry up for all I care.

[skluth]

Found this article where ODOT is already buying properties along the Indian Hills Road corridor. Not all are related to ACCESS Oklahoma but some could be.

[Bobby5280]

Maybe ODOT is quietly getting put in charge of the building (cough) surface streets with a big median down the middle. Then OTA comes in and lays down the new turnpike into that center space.

[Scott5114]

ODOT was planning on doing something to the I-35/Indian Hills interchange long before the Access Oklahoma plan was released. It's a pretty sucky interchange as it exists now. If I remember correctly, they were planning to convert it into a DDI.  Now, of course, they needn't bother and can just sell all that property to OTA.

[swake]

I think they'll fart around until Arkansas starts seriously building out I-49 between Texarkana and Fort Smith. I think there is a decent chance a finished I-49 could pull a good bit of traffic (and business that goes with it) off of US-69. The anti freeway folks in Atoka and Stringtown could see a lot fewer visitors. And the @$$holes running speed traps there will be getting less ticket revenue. Let those places dry up for all I care.

Those two small speed trap towns with less than 3,500 people are blocking improved access for 1.5 million people in eastern Oklahoma?

That is nothing short of insane.

[Bobby5280]

It's insane but the OK State Legislature has been letting it go on and on for decades. I don't fully understand the reasons why because it doesn't make any sense from a business perspective for the entire state. They're putting the interests of a small number of people ahead of the business interests and safety concerns of everyone else.

Time is running against those little speed trap towns. They're not growing at all. If they're like many other rural areas in Oklahoma those towns are slowly bleeding away population via lack of opportunity for young people and older residents dying. Eventually freeway upgrades US-69/75 thru Atoka and Stringtown will be possible. Hell, at some point the remaining people in those towns might beg for it just to keep their towns on the map somehow.

Muskogee is a big enough town that blocking a new US-69 freeway is a tougher problem for ODOT to solve.

[mvak36]

Muskogee is a big enough town that blocking a new US-69 freeway is a tougher problem for ODOT to solve.

Maybe they should threaten to upgrade US75 from I-40 to Tulsa. If that happens then there is a bypass (albeit tolled) of Muskogee all the way down to McAlester.