Worst control city on an interstate in your state

[Flint1979]

I liked it years ago when they changed the control cities at the M-25/US-10 and I-75 interchange. They used to have Standish as the NB control city and Flint-Detroit as the SB control city, now they have the control cities to match the rest of that area of I-75 with Mackinac Bridge as the NB control city and Saginaw as the SB control city which is what it should be.

[roadman65]

^^^^^^But you have to go south on I-75 one exit to get there.

Considering Canada is used on I-96 to this point, you need it to follow through.

[Flint1979]

^^^^^^But you have to go south on I-75 one exit to get there.

Considering Canada is used on I-96 to this point, you need it to follow through.

So what? I-75 is a through route it goes south into Ohio, it doesn't take you to Canada and neither does I-96. Just because you have an exit for the bridge off I-75 doesn't make Canada a legit control city. Canada is only used once on I-96 and it shouldn't be used at all. EB I-96 ends right into SB I-75 so it should have SB I-75's control city at that point as well.

[roadman65]

However people coming off of I-96 May be going to Canada. Having both covers all bases. You still get your Toledo and you get your I-96 for Canada.

True I-96 ends at I-75, but for practical purposes it's better to let people think it ends at the Ambassador for continuity sake.

[Flint1979]

The control city all the way from Lansing is Detroit then changes to DOWNTOWN Detroit once you enter the city so it should continue to use DOWNTOWN Detroit at that point. Using another country or a state when there is a logical choice to use another control city that is actually a city doesn't make much sense. And actually the control city for NB I-75 should be DOWNTOWN and the control city on the Lodge should be Huntington Place.

It does follow through with DOWNTOWN though, you take the Lodge. They could have a sign before the interchange saying Bridge to Canada Exit 213 and that would be fine or Bridge to Canada follow I-96 East.

[roadman65]

Whatever you say.  You're the expert there.

[Flint1979]

Whatever you say.  You're the expert there.

I'm not trying to argue about it just having a discussion. I can see where you are coming from on your side as well but knowing the area it seems strange to change it to Canada. You are right that if you are headed to Canada from I-94 that would be the exit you would use to get to Windsor. It kind of is misleading though I think a little bit because I-94 ends at the Blue Water Bridge with I-69 and seeing Bridge to Canada twice might confuse some people. It wouldn't me but I can see where some people would be confused. I just think using another country there is a bit misleading is all when you have a US city you can use. MDOT isn't going to change the control city at least not right now so it's going to stay Canada.

Actually the signs before the interchange say Bridge to Canada and when you get to the actually interchange it just says Canada. It probably should be on the sign with I-75 South and I-96 Toledo-Bridge to Canada.

[SkyPesos]

I'll wait for the Gordie Howe Bridge signage before taking a position here. Maybe both could be signed as "Bridge to Canada" as it is in MDOT fashion, but the Gordie Howe Bridge get a "TO ON-401" signage as well, to differentiate them as favor the new bridge for through traffic?

[Flint1979]

I'll wait for the Gordie Howe Bridge signage before taking a position here. Maybe both could be signed as "Bridge to Canada" as it is in MDOT fashion, but the Gordie Howe Bridge get a "TO ON-401" signage as well, to differentiate them as favor the new bridge for through traffic?

Not sure there. I've never seen MDOT use a sign telling you which highway is on the other side of the border. Using Bridge to Canada pretty much tells you all you need to know I think.

[wanderer2575]

I'll wait for the Gordie Howe Bridge signage before taking a position here. Maybe both could be signed as "Bridge to Canada" as it is in MDOT fashion, but the Gordie Howe Bridge get a "TO ON-401" signage as well, to differentiate them as favor the new bridge for through traffic?

Not sure there. I've never seen MDOT use a sign telling you which highway is on the other side of the border. Using Bridge to Canada pretty much tells you all you need to know I think.

Plus, as I said on the Gordie Howe Bridge thread, the Detroit International Bridge Company has engaged MDOT in litigation before and I've no doubt would do so again if they think anything MDOT does could be construed as promoting the Gordie Howe Bridge over the Ambassador Bridge.

[hobsini2]

If Michigan has got to have one then I choose St. Ignace for SB I-75 in the U.P., why not just use Mackinac Bridge like NB I-75 in the lower peninsula? St. Ignace is pretty well known as the north end of the bridge though. But this is for Interstate's and Michigan does a pretty good job of choosing control cities on Interstate's and pretty much overall on the other systems of highways.

What about I-96 Eastbound in Detroit, The choice of Canada as a control city at the junction of I-94?

For the U.P./St. Ignace comment, I could see Mackinac Bridge used, however, the U.P. has its own vibe.  Many residents probably don't care if the bridge, Saginaw, Flint, or Detroit is signed as a control city since they probably do not travel much over the bridge and further south (especially since Saginaw is around 210 miles from the south approach to the bridge).  They would more than likely prefer control cities that are in the U.P. signed on I-75, or on other highways such as US 2, US 41, or M-28.

For the I-96/Canada comment, the reason Canada 🇨🇦 is signed is that I-96 leads to the Ambassador Bridge crossing.  Is Windsor supposed to be signed instead?  Could be but this is one of the main crossings for motorists not just to go to Windsor.  This is also a way to get to Toronto, Ottawa, or Montreal along with the Port Huron-Sarnia crossing or the I-81/Thousand Islands crossing.  These crossings as well as the crossings in Buffalo and Niagara Falls all have Canada 🇨🇦 as a control point as these are gateways to visit Canada or to "cut through" Canada above Lake Erie instead of traveling below in the USA.

After typing this, I read what Flint1979 commented.  I would still sign I-96 for Canada because once I-96 interchanges with I-75, the I-75 controls  are posted and motorists can decide on their options there.  Could "TO I-75" be added to the I-96 sign to give a motorist the USA option?  It more than likely would help, I believe.

I would sign Toronto, similar how to NY signs Montreal on the Adirondack Northway. You could even sign Toronto AND Montreal at that point honestly.

It just seems too far away to sign Toronto (and definitely too far for Montreal). I think Canada or Ontario is more appropriate, even if long distance traffic is headed to Toronto.

Detroit to Toronto is only 230 miles, which is only ~10 miles farther apart than Albany and Montreal. 230 miles seems the right distance to be helpful to long distance traffic.

Why would MDOT use Toronto when Ontario doesn't even use Toronto once you are in Canada until you get to London? London is the control city on 401 going east of Windsor. Also NYSDOT and MDOT are two different agencies in two different states.

Wouldn't be the first time that two DOTs don't align on control cities. I-80 in OH uses NYC as a control city, a practice that doesn't carry into Pennsylvania. Michigan and Ontario's DOTs not aligning would be par for the course.

Of course it doesn't carry into Pennsylvania because Pennsylvania chooses small cities to be control cities along I-80. I agree that the control city there should be New York City and the Youngstown, OH going west. They shouldn't be using any PA cities that is just dumb. Michigan does a good job of choosing control cities so why would we want to change that? Putting Toronto on I-96 is misleading at it's finest. If anything Toledo should be the control city by that point and Ontario is in another country as well. The control city there really is the bridge even though at the interchange it just says Canada.

You could make a case for State College for I-80 but that's it.

[Brandon]

I'll wait for the Gordie Howe Bridge signage before taking a position here. Maybe both could be signed as "Bridge to Canada" as it is in MDOT fashion, but the Gordie Howe Bridge get a "TO ON-401" signage as well, to differentiate them as favor the new bridge for through traffic?

Not sure there. I've never seen MDOT use a sign telling you which highway is on the other side of the border. Using Bridge to Canada pretty much tells you all you need to know I think.

There usually isn't much point as the one current bridge in Detroit will get you across the border, as will the Blue Water Bridge and the International Bridge.  All three are at different points (Detroit, Port Huron, Sault Sainte Marie).  The Gordie Howe Bridge will be different as this, the Ambassador Bridge, and the Tunnel all get you across the border, but to different points in Detroit and Windsor.  Right now, Bridge and Tunnel tell you what you need to know.  With two bridges, MDOT will need to differentiate between the bridges.

[wanderer2575]

I'll wait for the Gordie Howe Bridge signage before taking a position here. Maybe both could be signed as "Bridge to Canada" as it is in MDOT fashion, but the Gordie Howe Bridge get a "TO ON-401" signage as well, to differentiate them as favor the new bridge for through traffic?

Not sure there. I've never seen MDOT use a sign telling you which highway is on the other side of the border. Using Bridge to Canada pretty much tells you all you need to know I think.

There usually isn't much point as the one current bridge in Detroit will get you across the border, as will the Blue Water Bridge and the International Bridge.  All three are at different points (Detroit, Port Huron, Sault Sainte Marie).  The Gordie Howe Bridge will be different as this, the Ambassador Bridge, and the Tunnel all get you across the border, but to different points in Detroit and Windsor.  Right now, Bridge and Tunnel tell you what you need to know.  With two bridges, MDOT will need to differentiate between the bridges.

I expect the only differentiation, if any, will be to include the bridge names on signs.  No Canadian control cities or TO Canadian routes.

[Flint1979]

I'll wait for the Gordie Howe Bridge signage before taking a position here. Maybe both could be signed as "Bridge to Canada" as it is in MDOT fashion, but the Gordie Howe Bridge get a "TO ON-401" signage as well, to differentiate them as favor the new bridge for through traffic?

Not sure there. I've never seen MDOT use a sign telling you which highway is on the other side of the border. Using Bridge to Canada pretty much tells you all you need to know I think.

Plus, as I said on the Gordie Howe Bridge thread, the Detroit International Bridge Company has engaged MDOT in litigation before and I've no doubt would do so again if they think anything MDOT does could be construed as promoting the Gordie Howe Bridge over the Ambassador Bridge.

Honestly unless you want to be on city streets in Windsor when the GHB opens I would suggest using it and not using the Ambassador Bridge or the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel. That was always the problem with the Ambassador Bridge with it dumping you into city streets on the Windsor side.

[Flint1979]

If Michigan has got to have one then I choose St. Ignace for SB I-75 in the U.P., why not just use Mackinac Bridge like NB I-75 in the lower peninsula? St. Ignace is pretty well known as the north end of the bridge though. But this is for Interstate's and Michigan does a pretty good job of choosing control cities on Interstate's and pretty much overall on the other systems of highways.

What about I-96 Eastbound in Detroit, The choice of Canada as a control city at the junction of I-94?

For the U.P./St. Ignace comment, I could see Mackinac Bridge used, however, the U.P. has its own vibe.  Many residents probably don't care if the bridge, Saginaw, Flint, or Detroit is signed as a control city since they probably do not travel much over the bridge and further south (especially since Saginaw is around 210 miles from the south approach to the bridge).  They would more than likely prefer control cities that are in the U.P. signed on I-75, or on other highways such as US 2, US 41, or M-28.

For the I-96/Canada comment, the reason Canada 🇨🇦 is signed is that I-96 leads to the Ambassador Bridge crossing.  Is Windsor supposed to be signed instead?  Could be but this is one of the main crossings for motorists not just to go to Windsor.  This is also a way to get to Toronto, Ottawa, or Montreal along with the Port Huron-Sarnia crossing or the I-81/Thousand Islands crossing.  These crossings as well as the crossings in Buffalo and Niagara Falls all have Canada 🇨🇦 as a control point as these are gateways to visit Canada or to "cut through" Canada above Lake Erie instead of traveling below in the USA.

After typing this, I read what Flint1979 commented.  I would still sign I-96 for Canada because once I-96 interchanges with I-75, the I-75 controls  are posted and motorists can decide on their options there.  Could "TO I-75" be added to the I-96 sign to give a motorist the USA option?  It more than likely would help, I believe.

I would sign Toronto, similar how to NY signs Montreal on the Adirondack Northway. You could even sign Toronto AND Montreal at that point honestly.

It just seems too far away to sign Toronto (and definitely too far for Montreal). I think Canada or Ontario is more appropriate, even if long distance traffic is headed to Toronto.

Detroit to Toronto is only 230 miles, which is only ~10 miles farther apart than Albany and Montreal. 230 miles seems the right distance to be helpful to long distance traffic.

Why would MDOT use Toronto when Ontario doesn't even use Toronto once you are in Canada until you get to London? London is the control city on 401 going east of Windsor. Also NYSDOT and MDOT are two different agencies in two different states.

Wouldn't be the first time that two DOTs don't align on control cities. I-80 in OH uses NYC as a control city, a practice that doesn't carry into Pennsylvania. Michigan and Ontario's DOTs not aligning would be par for the course.

Of course it doesn't carry into Pennsylvania because Pennsylvania chooses small cities to be control cities along I-80. I agree that the control city there should be New York City and the Youngstown, OH going west. They shouldn't be using any PA cities that is just dumb. Michigan does a good job of choosing control cities so why would we want to change that? Putting Toronto on I-96 is misleading at it's finest. If anything Toledo should be the control city by that point and Ontario is in another country as well. The control city there really is the bridge even though at the interchange it just says Canada.

You could make a case for State College for I-80 but that's it.

Yeah that wouldn't be bad.

[Flint1979]

I'll wait for the Gordie Howe Bridge signage before taking a position here. Maybe both could be signed as "Bridge to Canada" as it is in MDOT fashion, but the Gordie Howe Bridge get a "TO ON-401" signage as well, to differentiate them as favor the new bridge for through traffic?

Not sure there. I've never seen MDOT use a sign telling you which highway is on the other side of the border. Using Bridge to Canada pretty much tells you all you need to know I think.

There usually isn't much point as the one current bridge in Detroit will get you across the border, as will the Blue Water Bridge and the International Bridge.  All three are at different points (Detroit, Port Huron, Sault Sainte Marie).  The Gordie Howe Bridge will be different as this, the Ambassador Bridge, and the Tunnel all get you across the border, but to different points in Detroit and Windsor.  Right now, Bridge and Tunnel tell you what you need to know.  With two bridges, MDOT will need to differentiate between the bridges.

Yeah it'll probably tell you the crossing on signs. I've been over every International crossing in Michigan and MDOT does the same thing each time. But Detroit is the only one with multiple crossings.

[kphoger]

That was always the problem with the Ambassador Bridge with it dumping you into city streets on the Windsor side.

But it was useful if you needed to exchange money, because you could just poke around for an ATM on those city streets.

[Flint1979]

That was always the problem with the Ambassador Bridge with it dumping you into city streets on the Windsor side.

But it was useful if you needed to exchange money, because you could just poke around for an ATM on those city streets.

If I remember right (it's been 21 years since I've been across the border) you could exchange your currency at the border.

[Flint1979]

I actually went through the Ford-Jeffries interchange twice today and used it once. I was coming from EB I-94 to EB I-96 to NB I-75 to the Grand River exit to get downtown.

I noticed today too that the signs on the Chrysler approaching the Ford that they still have Ford Fwy on the signs. I don't notice this with any other Detroit freeway.

[wanderer2575]

I actually went through the Ford-Jeffries interchange twice today and used it once. I was coming from EB I-94 to EB I-96 to NB I-75 to the Grand River exit to get downtown.

I noticed today too that the signs on the Chrysler approaching the Ford that they still have Ford Fwy on the signs. I don't notice this with any other Detroit freeway.

At the other extreme, signs for the Davison (M-8) and Southfield (M-39) freeways show only the freeway names and no control cities.

[thenetwork]

Once the Gordie opens up, signs at I-94 to I-96 should just say:

I-96 EAST TO I-75 SOUTH
Bridges To Canada
Toledo

[The Nature Boy]

I'm still confused as to why naming a specific Canadian city is sacrilege. More information is always helpful to a motorist. The two countries are separated by the Detroit River, handwaving Canadian control cities because it's a "different country" is provincial to the point of being unhelpful. This thread is supposed to involve critiquing control cities, not defending your state DOT like they can do no wrong.

I can understand a state being a control city. I don't agree with it but I can understand it, especially if it's a small state or that road is truly the only way into that state from a given point (rarely true but I guess possible). Using one of the largest countries (by land mass) in the entire world as a control point just defeats the purpose of having control points.

Canadian and Mexican cities should be signed as control cities. Who cares if it's a "different country?" People still drive there.

[Flint1979]

Once the Gordie opens up, signs at I-94 to I-96 should just say:

I-96 EAST TO I-75 SOUTH
Bridges To Canada
Toledo

That would work.

[Flint1979]

I actually went through the Ford-Jeffries interchange twice today and used it once. I was coming from EB I-94 to EB I-96 to NB I-75 to the Grand River exit to get downtown.

I noticed today too that the signs on the Chrysler approaching the Ford that they still have Ford Fwy on the signs. I don't notice this with any other Detroit freeway.

At the other extreme, signs for the Davison (M-8) and Southfield (M-39) freeways show only the freeway names and no control cities.

The one on I-75 shows Ford Fwy right next to the I-94 shield and then Port Huron-Chicago under it.

[Flint1979]

I don't think using Canada there is wrong or it should really be something else. There are only two crossings to get into Canada from Detroit, three once the GHB opens. Also there is a sign telling you which exit to get off at to get to the bridge and the tunnel. Once you get on I-96 EB you have I-75 Flint, M-10 DOWNTOWN and I-75 South I-96 Toledo signs. The Bridge to Canada is the last exit on I-96 before you dump into I-75 South.