Flyswatter Interchanges

[mightyace]

What is now specifically discouraged is the use of partial interchanges to force drivers to go through at least one toll plaza before they can exit. The Garden State Parkway is notorious at this. Many drivers used the police U-turn spots to turn around, because they (again using maps) found that they could not exit where their destination was.

The Illinois Tollway system used to be that bad as well.  When I traveled with my parents to and from Milwaukee, we'd always take the Tri-State Tollway around Chicago.  And, back in the 70s and early 80s, the vast majority of the exits were partial.  A lot of them have since been made full exits with ramp tolls.

[deathtopumpkins]

Now that's just being an ass. Edit/modify? Same fucking thing. And since we have told you (and explained in detail since you seem unable to comprehend it) how you are to combine posts, I thought it was perfectly clear what "use the edit button" means right after you quintuple-post. Oh and if a moderator adds something to one of your posts, do not remove it!
Basically, stop being an ass and listen to the moderators and admins (quickly), or you WILL get banned.

---

As for partial interchanges, every single one I've ever gone through is only partial because the missing movements are not needed, and I have NEVER seen a vehicle drive the wrong way on a ramp. Disallowing them for malicious purposes (example tolls) makes sense, as it is better to just toll the ramps before the toll plaza, like almost every toll road (including at least the stretch of GSP north of the NJTP) does. I just cannot help but think that partial interchanges can be useful and that where ones have been constructed there was only a need for a partial. That's why I would be really interested in seeing the legislation that discourages them so as to read the reasoning behind it.

[US71]

The phrase "Use the edit button" is vague, because:

- I don't SEE an "edit" button. It says "modify".

Yes... and I believe I already brought this to your attention
But I'll repeat myself, at the risk of being crude: please use the MODIFY button.

[agentsteel53]

The phrase "Use the edit button" is vague, because:

- I don't SEE an "edit" button. It says "modify".

are you one of those people that has trouble finding the "any" key? 

[Brandon]

^^ The reason why you see so many partial interchanges on older barrier toll roads is to limit the number of toll plazas.  On the older tollways in Illinois, it is common to have a partial interchange on both sides of the mainline toll plaza.  An example would be the interchanges on I-294 at 22nd Street and Roosevelt Road.  They are intended to work in conjucntion with each other to limit the number of toll plazas required on the tollway.  In this modern age of electronic tolling, such setups aren't required as it is easy to set up an ETC lane in addition to a basket for change.

Looking at states such as Kentucky and Oklahoma, they decided to solve their problem by placing the toll plaza under the overpass and using a loop type interchange instead of partial interchanges.

[US71]

The phrase "Use the edit button" is vague, because:

- I don't SEE an "edit" button. It says "modify".

are you one of those people that has trouble finding the "any" key?  

rimshot

[Brandon]

The phrase "Use the edit button" is vague, because:

- I don't SEE an "edit" button. It says "modify".

are you one of those people that has trouble finding the "any" key? 

rimshot

Times like these when I wish there was a post ratings system here. 
+1

[kj3400]

The phrase "Use the edit button" is vague, because:

- I don't SEE an "edit" button. It says "modify".

are you one of those people that has trouble finding the "any" key?  

He must have a hard time understanding the concept of synonyms.




But let's get back on topic shall we?
Personally the only flyswatter interchange I've been through is exit 57 on I-95 here in Baltimore, and I've lived here so long it doesn't really strike out as one. I guess our state DOT lost confidence after the freeway revolts, and I-70 and I-83 never got fully built.

---

As for partial interchanges, every single one I've ever gone through is only partial because the missing movements are not needed, and I have NEVER seen a vehicle drive the wrong way on a ramp. Disallowing them for malicious purposes (example tolls) makes sense, as it is better to just toll the ramps before the toll plaza, like almost every toll road (including at least the stretch of GSP north of the NJTP) does. I just cannot help but think that partial interchanges can be useful and that where ones have been constructed there was only a need for a partial. That's why I would be really interested in seeing the legislation that discourages them so as to read the reasoning behind it.

It doesn't make sense to NOT have partial interchanges. After all bypasses use them all the time. If you just bypassed a city or towm, surely you wouldn't want to go back in it? That's what you bypassed it for!

^^ The reason why you see so many partial interchanges on older barrier toll roads is to limit the number of toll plazas.  On the older tollways in Illinois, it is common to have a partial interchange on both sides of the mainline toll plaza.  An example would be the interchanges on I-294 at 22nd Street and Roosevelt Road.  They are intended to work in conjucntion with each other to limit the number of toll plazas required on the tollway.  In this modern age of electronic tolling, such setups aren't required as it is easy to set up an ETC lane in addition to a basket for change.

Looking at states such as Kentucky and Oklahoma, they decided to solve their problem by placing the toll plaza under the overpass and using a loop type interchange instead of partial interchanges.

I-895, the Harbor Tunnel Thruway in my state is the same way. Onramps only from certain directions for NB traffic south of the toll plaza and offramps north of the toll plaza. Vice versa for southbound traffic.

[TheStranger]

It doesn't make sense to NOT have partial interchanges. After all bypasses use them all the time. If you just bypassed a city or towm, surely you wouldn't want to go back in it? That's what you bypassed it for!

And sometimes the "missing" connections are availale via a nearby interchange or connector freeway, making adding ramps to the main junction unnecessary!  (i.e. in the San Fernando Valley, from 405 northbound to 5 southbound and vice versa, Route 118 takes care of such movements)

[mightyace]

That's why I would be really interested in seeing the legislation that discourages them so as to read the reasoning behind it.

Here's what I found with a quick search:

Policy Point 4: "The proposed access connects to a public road only and will provide for all traffic movements. Less than "full interchanges'' may be considered on a case-by-case basis for applications requiring special access for managed lanes (e.g., transit, HOVs, HOT lanes) or park and ride lots. The proposed access will be designed to meet or exceed current standards (23 CFR 625.2(a), 625.4(a)(2), and 655.603(d))."

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/modiv/FHWA_Policy_Points_Promptlist.pdf

[Troubleshooter]

Now that's just being an ass. Edit/modify? Same fucking thing. And since we have told you (and explained in detail since you seem unable to comprehend it) how you are to combine posts, I thought it was perfectly clear what "use the edit button" means right after you quintuple-post. Oh and if a moderator adds something to one of your posts, do not remove it!
Basically, stop being an ass and listen to the moderators and admins (quickly), or you WILL get banned.

I am trying to do it right.

I was saying that it is NOT at all obvious to a newcomer what "use the edit button," sitting there by itself, means. It was not obvious to me, because I never before encountered a forum that prohibited multiple posts like this. It's cryptic to those not in the know.

A little clarity would help everyone.

[Scott5114]

No further discussion of the posting rules and how to edit posts. It's been expounded upon enough in this thread and further discussion is unnecessary at this point. If you have any issues direct them to any administrator.

[mapman]

A unique interchange in my hometown of Santa Cruz, CA is the CA 1/CA 17/Ocean Street interchange.  Originally built in stages in the 1940's and 1950's, it's a combination half diamond, half directional "T," and partial trumpet interchange.  A widening project in 2009 added a third lane in each direction along CA 1 east of CA 17, but otherwise it has remained largely unchanged since its original construction.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Santa+Cruz,+CA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=50.910968,113.203125&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Santa+Cruz,+California&ll=36.987523,-122.020082&spn=0.012649,0.027637&t=h&z=16

[jdb1234]

8: The Birmingham AL "Hubris" Interchange: I call it this because someone in the 1960s made a cartoon of it. The ramps were in accurate places, but the road signs had such fanciful destinations as "Hubris", "Finsterwood", and "Dimpleville" for the exits. There were hundreds of useless signs. The article was about the overuse and bad usage of road signs.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Birmingham+AL&sll=39.019234,-77.103767&sspn=0.009319,0.016544&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Birmingham,+Jefferson,+Alabama&ll=33.521344,-86.799374&spn=0.01,0.016544&t=k&z=16

Note 2 things:
1. The interchange with US 11 on the Red Mountain Expressway northbound originally went only to northbound US 11.

2.  When first built, the Red Mountain Expressway ended at 2nd Ave N, this was the ramp into downtown Birmingham (the onramp from 3rd Ave N is where the freeway began southbound).  The interchange with I-20/59 was not built until the 1980s.

8: The Birmingham AL "Hubris" Interchange:

This one may look weird, but consider the loop ramp near the bottom has long been closed to traffic.  So the remaining ramps effectively serve as a half-interchange to/from the south.

But note that the northbound exit loop ramp is bridged over what is effectively the entrance ramp (connects farther north).

I would not say exactly bridged over, access to Carraway Blvd. (which really should be called 26th St. N) is allowed from that ramp.  I have driven through this interchange plenty of times and never had a problem.

[2Co5_14]

Similarly, there are two ramps from SB I-75 to EB I-285 on the north side, though in this case they're both right exits.  Neither one really provides access to anything the other doesn't.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Marietta,+GA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=32.939885,72.949219&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Marietta,+Cobb,+Georgia&ll=33.893431,-84.46332&spn=0.01685,0.03562&t=h&z=15

Actually, both ramps serve a purpose.  The elevated ramp provides 2 lanes of direct access from I-75 SB to I-285 EB.  The loop ramp provides access for traffic coming from the Windy Hill Rd on-ramps to I-285 EB (also, during the morning rush hour, it provides an additional lane of capacity for the incredible amount of traffic that goes from I-75 SB to I-285 EB).

[mightyace]

^^^

Did the loop ramp come first, or have both ramps always existed?

[2Co5_14]

Did the loop ramp come first, or have both ramps always existed?

The loop ramp(s) did come first, whan traffic volumes were much lower.  Actually, when the interchange was first constructed, I-285 through traffic used what are now the collector-distributor roads for the ramps.  At that time, the movements from I-285 EB to I-75 NB and I-285 WB to I-75 SB would have been left-hand ramps.

There were similar modifications made to the I-285 interchanges with I-75 on the south side of Atlanta and I-20 on the east side since they were first built.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Atlanta,+GA&sll=33.632755,-84.401157&sspn=0.008522,0.02105&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Atlanta,+Fulton,+Georgia&ll=33.632666,-84.400663&spn=0.008522,0.02105&t=h&z=16

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Atlanta,+GA&sll=33.632755,-84.401157&sspn=0.008522,0.02105&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Atlanta,+Fulton,+Georgia&ll=33.714952,-84.243271&spn=0.008514,0.02105&t=h&z=16

If you look closely at the 2nd picture, you can see a maintenance building in the middle of the interchange where the left-hand ramp from I-285 NB to I-20 WB used to be located - that movement has been replaced by a right-hand loop ramp.

[mightyace]

Did the loop ramp come first, or have both ramps always existed?

The loop ramp(s) did come first, whan traffic volumes were much lower.  Actually, when the interchange was first constructed, I-285 through traffic used what are now the collector-distributor roads for the ramps.  At that time, the movements from I-285 EB to I-75 NB and I-285 WB to I-75 SB would have been left-hand ramps.

I thought that the collector-distributor roads looked a bit strange what they were when I was on them about a year ago.  To hear that they were once the mainline makes more sense.