Georgia

[Tomahawkin]

Thanks for the upload, This will help a lot IMO especially weekend traffic headed north from Florida. I wonder when is this expected to start??? Im guessing after 2022...

[Tom958]

Here is a video of the proposed truck lanes on I-75 between Macon and the ATL metro.

Thanks! Among other things, another chapter in the saga of, "How does GDOT decide which legacy bridges to replace and which to retain?" Only two of the 1960s bridges will be replaced. The rest will live on, despite numerous replacements of similar structures elsewhere in the state. W/e. It'll be good to still have some respite from AASHTO beams and Jersey barriers.

[Tom958]

Thanks for the upload, This will help a lot IMO especially weekend traffic headed north from Florida. I wonder when is this expected to start??? Im guessing after 2022...

it won't help southbound traffic at all. I don't understand how they decided to do a separate truck roadway in one direction and nothing in the other. And when I ask GDOT that question, they explain why the separate truck roadway is northbound rather than southbound. 

[Tomahawkin]

GDOT doesnt have the funding yet to do the truck lanes in the southbound direction, IMO, Most likely half of the funding on future projects will go to the 400 express lanes as well as the 285 top end perimeter express lanes project (that one might be the costliest project and might double or triple the cost of the 285/400 interchange because there is going to be a lot of blasting of rock involved as well as bridges over the Chattahoochie river)

[Tomahawkin]

Has anyone noticed how much of a Cluster#### state route 20 is near the mall of GA. IH 85 even gets backed up at the S.R. 20 interchange. I got reminded as to why I haven't been to the mall of Georgia in 10 years! GDOT Needs to address S.R. 20 ASAP Because I'm seeing more apartments and a Andrettis indoor gaming venue being built... Another Rant Over...

[Ga293]

One thing I've been noticing recently with these hanging signs are that either the wires have sagged, or the fasteners on the signs have loosened, causing the signs to slide out of position.

[Tomahawkin]

Oftentimes you cant even see the numbers or letters on them. They are a eyesore. They should use Sign gantries  on the right hand side before major intersections/ interchanges especially since no one is from the Atlanta area who lives ITP

[Finrod]

Has anyone noticed how much of a Cluster#### state route 20 is near the mall of GA. IH 85 even gets backed up at the S.R. 20 interchange. I got reminded as to why I haven't been to the mall of Georgia in 10 years! GDOT Needs to address S.R. 20 ASAP Because I'm seeing more apartments and a Andrettis indoor gaming venue being built... Another Rant Over...

Phase 2 and 3 of the Sugarloaf Parkway Extension should address that, if they ever get around to building it.

https://www.gwinnettforum.com/2019/08/brack-route-of-phase-3-of-sugarloaf-parkway-extension-may-surprise-some/

[Tomahawkin]

Oh, nice, I only heard about the phase 1 extension which was planned 5 years ago, IMO Sugarloaf should be 3 lanes in both directions due to the amount of suburban sprawl. Even the roads in Dacula and Braselton have become congested during peak traffic times...

[Finrod]

Unfortunately the last update I saw on phase 2 was Gwinnett spending $1.5M last year to buy out a couple of houses in its path.  Its future path north to I-85 at least is pretty obvious on google satellite.

[architect77]

Unfortunately the last update I saw on phase 2 was Gwinnett spending $1.5M last year to buy out a couple of houses in its path.  Its future path north to I-85 at least is pretty obvious on google satellite.

A rebuild of 8 miles of I-26 in Asheville is taking out 133 homes.

[Tom958]

Designs for the freeway conversion of GA 316 from GA 20 to east of GA 8:

https://transformingsr316-gdot.hub.arcgis.com/

There are to be interchanges at Hi Hope Road, Hurricane Trail, and SR 8. Cedars Road will be removed south of the railroad and therefore on the south of 316, and, surprisingly, the north side is to become a high-speed RIRO. Seriously? And Fence Road will be relocated via a new bridge over the railroad to meet GA 8 at the new westbound ramps of the folded diamond GA 8 interchange.

The big thing that jumps out at me is the median of 150 feet or so between Hurricane Trail and GA 8. OK, it's fairly obvious that the idea is for the mainline here is to eventually become CDs for a much wider 316. Even so, 150 feet seems to be excessive. They must be sensitive about it: the link includes sections, apparently drawn to scale, but the median widths aren't dimensioned.

[Tomahawkin]

This was long overdue. I just moved to Lawrenceville and 316 is hell even on weekends! IMO Blow it up and make it 8 lanes total all the way to Athens. Those old 2 lane 1960s bridges arent going to cut it and add interstate overhead lighting. Deer are rampant in the area. Ronald Reagan Pkwy needs lighting as well because of Deer

[architect77]

One thing I've been noticing recently with these hanging signs are that either the wires have sagged, or the fasteners on the signs have loosened, causing the signs to slide out of position.

Yes, I've had many of these fixed through multiple requests to GDOT and Atlanta Public Works.----But here's the thing. The crew workers go out and replace, erect another sign with little thought regarding the quality of the installation, They just finish the work order, and of course the shoulder will be falling over in a few weeks. No one in this state ever thinks and says, "Perhaps there's a sturdier post we should be using", or "Let's  mount some of these signs a little higher and out of reach of taggers or easily destroyed by teens. As a result, better fasteners or better posts aren't ever adopted. Altanta's street signs use the worst assembly ever. One is fastened to the one underneath making a wobbly installation easily bent by wind. But decade after decade they don't move on to better assemblies like every other city. And our ONE WAY signs suck, the black arrow is so much easier to see and understand, used globally. I did get Atlanta Public Works to go out and adjust some of the new mast arm signals because they were crooked and it ruined the whole upgrade aspect. They straightened up at ptree/North ave ansd John Lewis Freedom/North Ave.

[Tom958]

One thing I've been noticing recently with these hanging signs are that either the wires have sagged, or the fasteners on the signs have loosened, causing the signs to slide out of position.

New Streetview of the reigning champ. This is on a US highway, GDOT.
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7998693,-84.2810039,3a,24.8y,218.24h,96.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYwY3lepn7ENL03-VvTP8tQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[Rothman]

One thing I've been noticing recently with these hanging signs are that either the wires have sagged, or the fasteners on the signs have loosened, causing the signs to slide out of position.

New Streetview of the reigning champ. This is on a US highway, GDOT.
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7998693,-84.2810039,3a,24.8y,218.24h,96.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYwY3lepn7ENL03-VvTP8tQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Um...wow.  That is really bad.

[architect77]

One thing I've been noticing recently with these hanging signs are that either the wires have sagged, or the fasteners on the signs have loosened, causing the signs to slide out of position.

New Streetview of the reigning champ. This is on a US highway, GDOT.
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7998693,-84.2810039,3a,24.8y,218.24h,96.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYwY3lepn7ENL03-VvTP8tQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

The crews who installed these lane signs weren't clearly explained that they are to be directlyoverhead of the lane they]re describing otherwise they're useless. But all over town you can see where they just clustered several together over the wrong lanes. Ponce Eastbound  at Monroe Dr. is one spot.

A few years ago i sent color photos of a cluster on Sidney Marcus at the GA400  entrance. They were literally on top of one another and none were over the exit only lane to 400.

Those photos were part of a long list of fixes I had amassed. And they did go out and move them over the correct lanes. You can still see the scrape marks from when they were on top of each other.

I guess it's too much to ask for to enjoy Atlanta's glittering high rises amongst beautiful green trees and have street infrastructure that commanded respect for the state like NY does so well.

[Tom958]

Some pure roadgeekery this cold Saturday morning: My common sense tells me that the first sections of I-16 to be built ought to have been the ones headed into the countryside from Macon and Savannah. However, what actually got built first was an isolated 25-mile section from west of Dublin to west of Soperton. This map snippet is from 1966; the part from GA 26 to US 319-441, shown as under construction here, was shown as open on the 1967 map. The section from Macon to Huber, also under construction here, wasn't shown as open until 1969.  Off the map, there was another section extending westward from Savannah to US 280; it was open by 1968. The remaining sections of I-16 west of Dublin weren't opened until the 1973 map, and the rest, from Soperton the rest of the way to Savannah, was opened in 1978 as the last section of original Interstate in Georgia. That's quite a bit of lag time, as befits that notoriously lightly-traveled corridor.



I found out about this isolated section of I-16 as a boy; we'd cross it via GA 19 on the way to and from my grandmother's house in Waycross. Of course, it was all but deserted, so I asked my dad why they built it, and he said that it was probably because the commissioner of the highway department lived in Soperton. OK, fine. But wouldn't building the sections headed out of Macon first be just as helpful for the trip to Soperton, and more helpful to the state in general? For whatever reason, I decided to investigate using 21st-century technology.

As you all know, US 80 is the highway from Macon to Savannah. However, if you ask Google for a route from Macon to Savannah avoiding "highways," it avoids US 80 until its junction with GA 119, only 27 miles from Savannah. The preferred route is GA 57 from Macon via Swainsboro to the hamlet of Stillmore, a slight corner cut via a county road to Metter, then GA 46, GA 119, and US 80 into Savannah. Today that route benefits considerably from the US 1 bypass of Swainsboro, but using the old roads through Swainsboro and eliminating the Stillmore corner cut still yields a 174 mile route taking 3:33. This compares favorably to US 80 at 178 miles and 3:49, though US 80 was probably a bit quicker in the '60s and '70s. Google also recommends a route using GA 57, US 441 through Dublin, then GA 29, 86, 46, and 119 to US 80, which is 175 miles and 3:32, essentially equal to the other. Full disclosure: dragging the route away from the Swainsboro bypass causes it to jump to a county road that rejoins GA 46 on the other side of Metter for a 171 mile, 3:30 trip that a few adventurous travelers must've used back in the day.

The salient factoid here is that US 80 wasn't the only or even the best route between Macon and Savannah when I-16 came onto the scene. There probably would've been some political resistance to diverting through traffic off of the recognized long-distance route, but IMO it's likely that savvy travelers avoided US 80 even before I-16 was a factor.

Anyway: routing Macon-Savannah traffic via the GA 26-GA 29 segment of I-16 gets us to 174 miles and 3:27, a slight improvement in time. Substituting a 21-mile extension of the Macon-end segment of I-16 from its initial end at Sgoda Road/Huber to GA 112 gives us 172 miles and 3:28, essentially equal, but... it took a long time to build I-16 across the wetlands along the Okmulgee River, and a Huber-GA 112 segment would've been unattractive to Macon-Savannah traffic until the part west of Huber was opened.

So, I guess building that isolated segment of I-16 wasn't so crazy after all. 

[architect77]

Some pure roadgeekery this cold Saturday morning: My common sense tells me that the first sections of I-16 to be built ought to have been the ones headed into the countryside from Macon and Savannah. However, what actually got built first was an isolated 25-mile section from west of Dublin to west of Soperton. This map snippet is from 1966; the part from GA 26 to US 319-441, shown as under construction here, was shown as open on the 1967 map. The section from Macon to Huber, also under construction here, wasn't shown as open until 1969.  Off the map, there was another section extending westward from Savannah to US 280; it was open by 1968. The remaining sections of I-16 west of Dublin weren't opened until the 1973 map, and the rest, from Soperton the rest of the way to Savannah, was opened in 1978 as the last section of original Interstate in Georgia. That's quite a bit of lag time, as befits that notoriously lightly-traveled corridor.



I found out about this isolated section of I-16 as a boy; we'd cross it via GA 19 on the way to and from my grandmother's house in Waycross. Of course, it was all but deserted, so I asked my dad why they built it, and he said that it was probably because the commissioner of the highway department lived in Soperton. OK, fine. But wouldn't building the sections headed out of Macon first be just as helpful for the trip to Soperton, and more helpful to the state in general? For whatever reason, I decided to investigate using 21st-century technology.

As you all know, US 80 is the highway from Macon to Savannah. However, if you ask Google for a route from Macon to Savannah avoiding "highways," it avoids US 80 until its junction with GA 119, only 27 miles from Savannah. The preferred route is GA 57 from Macon via Swainsboro to the hamlet of Stillmore, a slight corner cut via a county road to Metter, then GA 46, GA 119, and US 80 into Savannah. Today that route benefits considerably from the US 1 bypass of Swainsboro, but using the old roads through Swainsboro and eliminating the Stillmore corner cut still yields a 174 mile route taking 3:33. This compares favorably to US 80 at 178 miles and 3:49, though US 80 was probably a bit quicker in the '60s and '70s. Google also recommends a route using GA 57, US 441 through Dublin, then GA 29, 86, 46, and 119 to US 80, which is 175 miles and 3:32, essentially equal to the other. Full disclosure: dragging the route away from the Swainsboro bypass causes it to jump to a county road that rejoins GA 46 on the other side of Metter for a 171 mile, 3:30 trip that a few adventurous travelers must've used back in the day.

The salient factoid here is that US 80 wasn't the only or even the best route between Macon and Savannah when I-16 came onto the scene. There probably would've been some political resistance to diverting through traffic off of the recognized long-distance route, but IMO it's likely that savvy travelers avoided US 80 even before I-16 was a factor.

Anyway: routing Macon-Savannah traffic via the GA 26-GA 29 segment of I-16 gets us to 174 miles and 3:27, a slight improvement in time. Substituting a 21-mile extension of the Macon-end segment of I-16 from its initial end at Sgoda Road/Huber to GA 112 gives us 172 miles and 3:28, essentially equal, but... it took a long time to build I-16 across the wetlands along the Okmulgee River, and a Huber-GA 112 segment would've been unattractive to Macon-Savannah traffic until the part west of Huber was opened.

So, I guess building that isolated segment of I-16 wasn't so crazy after all. 

All interstates are built in small sections. I don't know how much time passed between this lone section and the rest of the I-16 being built, but even pondering "political resistance" in the largest state East of the Mississippi is so effed up about this state, the only state I know of so loathe to build new highways that move goods and support businesses and increase the state's GDP.

If either of NC's 2 deep water ports were half as busy as Savannah's, now the nation's 3rd busiest I think, there would be multiple additions of infrastructure and highways to serve the port. It would be a very high priority.

Except for I-16, Georgia's interstates haven't been substantially expanded since they were first built in the 1960's. What other state has done so little in 50 years time? Thank goodness Atlanta has a simple loop and spoke in each direction.

Which I was thinking yesterday driving through the 400/285 rebuild. It's so convoluted with flyovers in all directions that Visitors will continue to think Georgia and Atlanta have a buttload of big highways. They think that 6 lane freeways are deluxe, not knowing that's all we have to move millions of people in each cardinal direction.

And the complex interchange at 400 will continue this illusion. It's impressive in size, but the flyovers aren't elegant, and the one from 400 South to 285 East has 5 different support sections, using as little curved steel girders as possible, back and forth with the straight precast ones.

This interchange had the potential to surpass spaghetti junction in awe factor, but alas it won't come to be.

[RoadPelican]

I agree that Georgia does not like building new interstates.  However, they have done a good job with their GRIP program in upgrading 2 lane roads to 4 lane highways.  Most of these corridors are in rural areas with a low amount of at-grade intersections and mostly 65 MPH Speed Limits.  More interstates would be better, but I would take Georgia's roadway network over all of it's neighboring states even FL! 

Plus, when driving south on I-95 entering Georgia is a breathe of fresh air with it's smooth pavement and extra lane of travel.

[architect77]

I agree that Georgia does not like building new interstates.  However, they have done a good job with their GRIP program in upgrading 2 lane roads to 4 lane highways.  Most of these corridors are in rural areas with a low amount of at-grade intersections and mostly 65 MPH Speed Limits.  More interstates would be better, but I would take Georgia's roadway network over all of it's neighboring states even FL! 

Plus, when driving south on I-95 entering Georgia is a breathe of fresh air with it's smooth pavement and extra lane of travel.

Yes Georgia expanded it's smallish section of I-95, and a lot of people think it has gone above and beyond. The signage isn't in good condition and pavement quality is questionable in many areas like between Macon and Atlanta where you see a think tar layer patch holding aggregate not part of the main surface, and many shoulders are noticeably narrow with damaged guardrail everywhere. I researched and found the addresses and names at GDOT district offices down there because I wanted to request that the brown signs for park-type attractions be replaced because driving North out of Florida it's a noticeable dive in quality and conditions of roadside infrastructure and makes Georgia look primitive and poor due to neglect of maintenance. Georgia has no excuse to not keep its small I-95 section  looking good on America's East Coast main corridor. Comparison to other states in unavoidable.  Well it's good that they did improve the GRIP corridors though it's nothing that other states don't already do with continuous new roads being built like NC.

Florida's roads, culverts, and drainage is top notch though it's roads are not built with components as "tall" as Georgia's which is appropriate since we're the center of the Southeast that's home to the regional nucleus, Atlanta.

Florida's high standards and budget of $13 billion plus on its roads is very evident and appreciated. I think FL, NY, and NC have the best highway standards of the East Coast and are among the best in the nation too.

Georgia's humble beginnings before Atlanta became a powerhouse are the reason it never had high ambitions to keep up with the states to the North. Florida is basically an outpost of NE natives so it has that connection.

NC"s section of I-95 is bad because the state wanted to focus on I-85 and those used by North Carolineans who pay gas taxes. I-95 benefits out of staters more and thus was the lowest priority. Finally it will be rebuilt to 8 lanes through the state though that will take the next 30 years or more to complete.

Here is a history of i-40 from the NC thread that relates to I-16 in a way;

https://www.gribblenation.org/2016/08/to-shore-north-carolinas-struggle-to.html

[Tomahawkin]

Valid points! Also where in the hell is the emissions testing revenue allocated to??? Someone in office is making a killing of the emissions testing BS

[architect77]

Valid points! Also where in the hell is the emissions testing revenue allocated to??? Someone in office is making a killing of the emissions testing BS

I saw on the local news a report where a state legislator proposed ending the emissions program because 97% of vehicles pass and it's nothing but a racket for the testing centers.

[Tomahawkin]

Good! I just paid my BS emissions test yesterday in Dunwoody for 11.99. Total waste of time and money. I failed last year and had to pay 450.00 for a CO2 emission censor! 🤬🤬🤬

[Tom958]

Good! I just paid my BS emissions test yesterday in Dunwoody for 11.99. Total waste of time and money. I failed last year and had to pay 450.00 for a CO2 emission censor! 🤬🤬🤬

That's not bullshit. It's the law doing what it's supposed to do. Without mandatory inspections, many people would simply let their vehicles pollute, and we'd be Mexico City before long.