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Author Topic: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma  (Read 25453 times)

In_Correct

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma
« Reply #350 on: September 05, 2020, 01:25:54 PM »

Quote
... Probably need to make the Indian Nation Turnpike free ...

No. Keep It.

I really don't understand the oddly ancap attitude this place has sometimes.  Find a revenue stream that doesn't hurt the middle class and poor.

 ... yet it does not hurt me at all to pay and drive the beautiful Toll Roads.

There is Nation Wide Crisis. ... And in Oklahoma they have the Education spending the Infrastructure Money. There must be many more Toll Roads now more than ever.
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma
« Reply #351 on: September 05, 2020, 01:49:44 PM »

Quote
... Probably need to make the Indian Nation Turnpike free ...

No. Keep It.

I really don't understand the oddly ancap attitude this place has sometimes.  Find a revenue stream that doesn't hurt the middle class and poor.

 ... yet it does not hurt me at all to pay and drive the beautiful Toll Roads.

There is Nation Wide Crisis. ... And in Oklahoma they have the Education spending the Infrastructure Money. There must be many more Toll Roads now more than ever.

Take it out of the business tax instead.  Yes, raise that.
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Scott5114

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma
« Reply #352 on: September 05, 2020, 01:58:38 PM »

Quote
... Probably need to make the Indian Nation Turnpike free ...

No. Keep It.

I really don't understand the oddly ancap attitude this place has sometimes.  Find a revenue stream that doesn't hurt the middle class and poor.

 ... yet it does not hurt me at all to pay and drive the beautiful Toll Roads.

What about the ugly ones?
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sparker

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma
« Reply #353 on: September 05, 2020, 03:04:57 PM »

Quote
... Probably need to make the Indian Nation Turnpike free ...

No. Keep It.

I really don't understand the oddly ancap attitude this place has sometimes.  Find a revenue stream that doesn't hurt the middle class and poor.

 ... yet it does not hurt me at all to pay and drive the beautiful Toll Roads.

What about the ugly ones?

Ugly is in the eye of the beholder.  IMO -- even though it could potentially pose a hazard -- the relatively narrow and planted medians on the pikes (particularly the INT) are rather attractive.  If one can maintain control of their vehicle (and the remaining drivers perform likewise) everything's copacetic!

And to the point raised above:  OK's the archetypal "red state"; soak-the-rich/business class concepts generally don't fly there -- at least currently.  But in the aftermath of COVID and other disasters (especially if wildfires plague western OK during heat waves), I'd expect that most anything would be on the table as revenue sources -- including those deemed politically problematic in "normal" times. 
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma
« Reply #354 on: September 05, 2020, 04:16:07 PM »

And to the point raised above:  OK's the archetypal "red state"; soak-the-rich/business class concepts generally don't fly there -- at least currently.  But in the aftermath of COVID and other disasters (especially if wildfires plague western OK during heat waves), I'd expect that most anything would be on the table as revenue sources -- including those deemed politically problematic in "normal" times.

Here's hoping.  Nobody's going to miss corporate welfare when it's gone after COVID kills it.
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Scott5114

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma
« Reply #355 on: September 05, 2020, 05:29:48 PM »

And to the point raised above:  OK's the archetypal "red state"; soak-the-rich/business class concepts generally don't fly there -- at least currently.  But in the aftermath of COVID and other disasters (especially if wildfires plague western OK during heat waves), I'd expect that most anything would be on the table as revenue sources -- including those deemed politically problematic in "normal" times. 

Oklahoma's always had money problems, even in good economic times. After the state passed medical marijuana by referendum, there was some effort to water it down in the Legislature...until they saw just how much money it was bringing in, and then those bills quietly died.
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bugo

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma
« Reply #356 on: September 08, 2020, 11:33:54 PM »

Yeah, well, fuck them, they don't have to live with it.

The road goes both ways. Fuck the citizens of Muskogee, they don't have to sit at traffic lights unnecessarily in a town they have no reason or desire to be in. I can play the same game.

Quote
Again, the through traffic doesn't live there, they're absolutely not a stakeholder, at all.

That is false. Anybody who drives on that road is a stakeholder. The residents don't get to make unilateral decisions. If you were in control, it would take 2 weeks to drive from LA to NYC, and there would be far more accidents and deaths because of your shortsightedness.

I don't know if you are trolling, if you are a stubborn contrarian or if you are completely delusional. Your hatred of the automobile has made you batshit crazy.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 11:36:49 PM by bugo »
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bugo

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma
« Reply #357 on: September 09, 2020, 12:44:03 AM »

One of the biggest problems in Oklahoma is the fact that many of its residents are cheapskates and don't want to pay their taxes. I have often said that Republicans are the reason we can't have nice things, and Oklahoma is a prime example.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma
« Reply #358 on: September 09, 2020, 01:28:32 AM »

One of the biggest problems in Oklahoma is the fact that many of its residents are cheapskates and don't want to pay their taxes. I have often said that Republicans are the reason we can't have nice things, and Oklahoma is a prime example.
+1000000
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In_Correct

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma
« Reply #359 on: September 09, 2020, 02:06:05 AM »

In Oregon, they have that U.S. 97 which needs to be widened for connectivity and traffic purposes. I read the article referring to every body as: "Stake Holders" ... Every body that uses a Road is a Stake Holder. While there are many highways that still go through towns (and as at grade roads) ... that does not mean that they are supposed to be some parking lot system for the town. There are other large businesses, industries, theme parks, with their own streets ... but that is not quite the same thing. They are supposed to be isolated from the main highways, not smack dab in the middle of them.

I support The Economy by paying and driving the beautiful Toll Roads   :coffee: in stead of visiting silly Muskogee.
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rte66man

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma
« Reply #360 on: September 09, 2020, 10:07:45 AM »

One of the biggest problems in Oklahoma is the fact that many of its residents are cheapskates and don't want to pay their taxes. I have often said that Republicans are the reason we can't have nice things, and Oklahoma is a prime example.

Not restricted to Oklahoma or Republicans. Everyone wants things (good roads, etc) but no one wants to pay for them as "their taxes are too high. Waste and fraud need to be eliminated before I agree to pay more."  I worked for the OK House in the 90's and I can tell you there isn't enough waste and fraud to pay for all of the things people want.
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US71

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma
« Reply #361 on: September 09, 2020, 12:26:48 PM »

One of the biggest problems in Oklahoma is the fact that many of its residents are cheapskates and don't want to pay their taxes. I have often said that Republicans are the reason we can't have nice things, and Oklahoma is a prime example.

The same could be said for Arkansas. Also, ARDOT wastes money on pet projects, like building half-mile state highways as corporate driveways.
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sparker

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma
« Reply #362 on: September 09, 2020, 07:02:59 PM »

One of the biggest problems in Oklahoma is the fact that many of its residents are cheapskates and don't want to pay their taxes. I have often said that Republicans are the reason we can't have nice things, and Oklahoma is a prime example.

Not restricted to Oklahoma or Republicans. Everyone wants things (good roads, etc) but no one wants to pay for them as "their taxes are too high. Waste and fraud need to be eliminated before I agree to pay more."  I worked for the OK House in the 90's and I can tell you there isn't enough waste and fraud to pay for all of the things people want.

Just another vicious circle.  Low-tax states, particularly in reference to corporate/business taxes, use those rates to attempt to entice employers.  Some businesses do come as a result, but they tend not to employ the level of personnel that significantly moves the state's overall employment level; much large-scale manufacturing (e.g., the Toyota plant in MS and the BMW plant in SC) utilizes extensive automation these days (capital being deductible while labor isn't).  So the corporations pay taxes at reduced rates compared with other states -- but the level of employment increase is marginal, so revenues from personal income taxes remain largely stagnant.  Of course, as a result services tend to be somewhat limited (offsetting, at least for most) the state's attractiveness) -- but those that are there cost money anyway.  But without the addition of "gainfully employed", whether from an existing un- or under-employed labor pool or by influx from elsewhere, the low corporate tax rates tend not to cover the states' expenditure level required to accommodate their presence (new access roads, new interchanges, etc.).  But taxes are, to coin the cliche', the "3rd rail" of politics in the states choosing to maintain them at low levels; the appearance of doing so, even to the detriment of addressing state needs, seems to be paramount.  So the politicos continue their practice of repeatedly trying to entice new corporate investment even though the overall revenues are neutral or marginal at best, while trying to placate the "working class" with social policy proclamations.  Not in any way a matter of public-sector waste, just the inability to raise sufficient revenue for the state's needs.   
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Bobby5280

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma
« Reply #363 on: September 12, 2020, 01:45:40 PM »

This ridiculous game of giving big companies tax giveaways is rampant on every level, from federal down to local. Some cities and towns are risking insolvency. They're giving long term tax holidays to new businesses as a means of attracting them to that location. Town and cities are pitted against each other to sweeten the deals. Meanwhile, those same cities and towns grow ever more dependent on individual taxpayers/employees. Those "little people" are getting squeezed harder than ever on basic living costs. I saw one headline a couple days ago that said over 50% of America's young adults (people under 30) were living with parents. This worsening structural imbalance in the tax base is not sustainable.
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US71

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma
« Reply #364 on: September 12, 2020, 04:02:29 PM »

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