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Author Topic: Toll Lanes on US 69 in Overland Park  (Read 274 times)

stridentweasel

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Toll Lanes on US 69 in Overland Park
« on: February 15, 2020, 11:29:16 PM »

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/officials-explore-tolls-to-help-fund-expansion-of-69-highway-in-overland-park

This seems like a more sensible way to do freeway widening.  But I still wish they would talk about putting a ramp meter on the northbound ramp from 119th Street, fixing the southbound left entrance from Blue Valley Parkway and the poorly signed lane drop at 135th Street, and finding a way to address the northbound weaving issues at the remaining inner loops of the cloverleaf at I-435.
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: Toll Lanes on US 69 in Overland Park
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2020, 02:35:10 AM »

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/officials-explore-tolls-to-help-fund-expansion-of-69-highway-in-overland-park

This seems like a more sensible way to do freeway widening.  But I still wish they would talk about putting a ramp meter on the northbound ramp from 119th Street, fixing the southbound left entrance from Blue Valley Parkway and the poorly signed lane drop at 135th Street, and finding a way to address the northbound weaving issues at the remaining inner loops of the cloverleaf at I-435.

Lexus lanes... doesn't do anything to relieve traffic, doesn't really do much for funding, but god does it line whatever private company they're outsourcing the public commons to.
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Scott5114

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Re: Toll Lanes on US 69 in Overland Park
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2020, 05:10:08 AM »

I mean, if you're going to build Lexus lanes, it makes sense to build them in Johnson County. Hell of a lot of Lexuses in Overland Park.
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: Toll Lanes on US 69 in Overland Park
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2020, 12:44:17 PM »

I mean, if you're going to build Lexus lanes, it makes sense to build them in Johnson County. Hell of a lot of Lexuses in Overland Park.

Make 'em HOV lanes and you might actually see an impact on traffic.  Heck, don't even need to widen, then, just reuse an existing lane.
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ozarkman417

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Re: Toll Lanes on US 69 in Overland Park
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2020, 01:25:28 PM »

I mean, if you're going to build Lexus lanes, it makes sense to build them in Johnson County. Hell of a lot of Lexuses in Overland Park.

Make 'em HOV lanes and you might actually see an impact on traffic.  Heck, don't even need to widen, then, just reuse an existing lane.
The section they are wanting to widen is currently only four lanes, two in each direction. One HOV lane and one normal lane would just make things worse.
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: Toll Lanes on US 69 in Overland Park
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2020, 01:33:03 PM »

I mean, if you're going to build Lexus lanes, it makes sense to build them in Johnson County. Hell of a lot of Lexuses in Overland Park.

Make 'em HOV lanes and you might actually see an impact on traffic.  Heck, don't even need to widen, then, just reuse an existing lane.
The section they are wanting to widen is currently only four lanes, two in each direction. One HOV lane and one normal lane would just make things worse.

How do you figure?  Just puts pressure on people to carpool.  There's places where freeways are two on a side and the left lane got turned HOV only.  Building for the change you want to see works.  Want less traffic?  Give people a reason to team up.
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ozarkman417

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Re: Toll Lanes on US 69 in Overland Park
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2020, 05:12:30 PM »

I mean, if you're going to build Lexus lanes, it makes sense to build them in Johnson County. Hell of a lot of Lexuses in Overland Park.

Make 'em HOV lanes and you might actually see an impact on traffic.  Heck, don't even need to widen, then, just reuse an existing lane.
The section they are wanting to widen is currently only four lanes, two in each direction. One HOV lane and one normal lane would just make things worse.

How do you figure?  Just puts pressure on people to carpool.  There's places where freeways are two on a side and the left lane got turned HOV only.  Building for the change you want to see works.  Want less traffic?  Give people a reason to team up.
This takes the ability to pass slower vehicles away from single drivers, which could hold up traffic from time to time. You could say that about super-2s, but in the section of the the planned widening the AADT jumps from 35k near 151st all the way up to 82.5k near I-435, so it can't afford to have that 50/50 split 24/7 (it's not exactly KC's busiest freeway, either). If widening was absolutely out of reach, A 50/50 split could happen, but it would have to be exclusively during the morning and evening commute times, when people would actually be carpooling. During all other times, the would-be HOV lane would be open to everyone.
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Scott5114

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Re: Toll Lanes on US 69 in Overland Park
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2020, 03:49:06 AM »

People in Johnson County carpooling? Yeah, right. Don't you know they're important people with places to be?
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rte66man

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Re: Toll Lanes on US 69 in Overland Park
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2020, 06:04:53 AM »

I mean, if you're going to build Lexus lanes, it makes sense to build them in Johnson County. Hell of a lot of Lexuses in Overland Park.

Make 'em HOV lanes and you might actually see an impact on traffic.  Heck, don't even need to widen, then, just reuse an existing lane.
The section they are wanting to widen is currently only four lanes, two in each direction. One HOV lane and one normal lane would just make things worse.

How do you figure?  Just puts pressure on people to carpool.  There's places where freeways are two on a side and the left lane got turned HOV only.  Building for the change you want to see works.  Want less traffic?  Give people a reason to team up.

A large percentage of people do not work at jobs that have a fixed schedule (i.e. 8 to 5). They don't really have another choice but to drive themselves.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Toll Lanes on US 69 in Overland Park
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2020, 09:17:57 AM »

I would argue that HOV lanes with too many access points can cause more traffic congestion given the constant merging of left to right and vice versa of car pools. It surely slows down traffic on the mainlines. Iíve often thought traffic would flow better in CA if all carpools were removed and freeways restriped in some cases possibly being able to add two new GP lanes in each direction.
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: Toll Lanes on US 69 in Overland Park
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2020, 09:48:53 AM »

I would argue that HOV lanes with too many access points can cause more traffic congestion given the constant merging of left to right and vice versa of car pools. It surely slows down traffic on the mainlines. Iíve often thought traffic would flow better in CA if all carpools were removed and freeways restriped in some cases possibly being able to add two new GP lanes in each direction.

Maybe temporarily, but then people stop carpooling and you're back to square one, but with more cars.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Toll Lanes on US 69 in Overland Park
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2020, 10:06:50 AM »

I would argue that HOV lanes with too many access points can cause more traffic congestion given the constant merging of left to right and vice versa of car pools. It surely slows down traffic on the mainlines. Iíve often thought traffic would flow better in CA if all carpools were removed and freeways restriped in some cases possibly being able to add two new GP lanes in each direction.

Maybe temporarily, but then people stop carpooling and you're back to square one, but with more cars.
Perhaps but if we had better mass transit then this might not be as big of an issue. Some would be carpoolers would use transit instead if it was worth a damn.
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sprjus4

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Re: Toll Lanes on US 69 in Overland Park
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2020, 10:13:47 AM »

HOV or Toll lanes?

Just make it a HO/T lane. Free for HOV, single vehicles pay.

If the roadway is only currently 4 lanes, widen it to 2+1 each way to create a total of 6 lanes. In the future, plan to add a third general purpose lane each way to have an ultimate section of 3+1 each way.
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: Toll Lanes on US 69 in Overland Park
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2020, 10:18:39 AM »

HOV or Toll lanes?

Just make it a HO/T lane. Free for HOV, single vehicles pay.

Not nearly as effective at reducing traffic as HOV lanes, since now you're not just rewarding altruism, you're also rewarding the most selfish behavior.  You'll just get fewer people carpooling.  Need an example?  Try the before and after on 635 in Dallas when it went from having HOV lanes to having HOT lanes.  Nobody carpools, and now nobody gets to move.
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sprjus4

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Re: Toll Lanes on US 69 in Overland Park
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2020, 10:24:53 AM »

HOV or Toll lanes?

Just make it a HO/T lane. Free for HOV, single vehicles pay.

Not nearly as effective at reducing traffic as HOV lanes, since now you're not just rewarding altruism, you're also rewarding the most selfish behavior.  You'll just get fewer people carpooling.  Need an example?  Try the before and after on 635 in Dallas when it went from having HOV lanes to having HOT lanes.  Nobody carpools, and now nobody gets to move.
On the contrary, Northern Virginia and Hampton Roads have had success with HOV to HO/T conversion during peak hours. More people use the HO/T lanes from when it previously HOV restricted, and congestion has eased -some- in the general purpose lanes. I suppose it depends on the region. Iím not too familiar with the commuting trends of Dallas-Fort Worth, so I cannot say much.
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: Toll Lanes on US 69 in Overland Park
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2020, 10:26:19 AM »

HOV or Toll lanes?

Just make it a HO/T lane. Free for HOV, single vehicles pay.

Not nearly as effective at reducing traffic as HOV lanes, since now you're not just rewarding altruism, you're also rewarding the most selfish behavior.  You'll just get fewer people carpooling.  Need an example?  Try the before and after on 635 in Dallas when it went from having HOV lanes to having HOT lanes.  Nobody carpools, and now nobody gets to move.
On the contrary, Northern Virginia and Hampton Roads have had success with HOV to HO/T conversion. I suppose it depends on the region. Iím not too familiar with the commuting trends of Dallas-Fort Worth, so I cannot say much.

I strongly suspect "money talks" less and "bullshit walks" more the further away you get from DC.
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sprjus4

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Re: Toll Lanes on US 69 in Overland Park
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2020, 10:37:05 AM »

HOV or Toll lanes?

Just make it a HO/T lane. Free for HOV, single vehicles pay.

Not nearly as effective at reducing traffic as HOV lanes, since now you're not just rewarding altruism, you're also rewarding the most selfish behavior.  You'll just get fewer people carpooling.  Need an example?  Try the before and after on 635 in Dallas when it went from having HOV lanes to having HOT lanes.  Nobody carpools, and now nobody gets to move.
On the contrary, Northern Virginia and Hampton Roads have had success with HOV to HO/T conversion. I suppose it depends on the region. Iím not too familiar with the commuting trends of Dallas-Fort Worth, so I cannot say much.

I strongly suspect "money talks" less and "bullshit walks" more the further away you get from DC.
Hampton Roads is certainly not like DC when it comes to money and affordability. According to numbers from VDOT, once they converted the HOV lanes to HO/T lanes heading towards Naval Station Norfolk, IIRC around 90% of the usage was SOV not HOV. Congestion was decreased a decent amount and average speeds were increased on the general purpose lanes. The HOV lanes had been previously underutilized, now they are quite full during peak hours. The tolls are also kept at a low, reasonable rate, rarely spiking past $2 or $3 for the 7 mile stretch, compared to Northern Virginia where $30+ is common for a 30 mile stretch of I-95, and similar along the I-395 and I-495 stretches.

Northern Virginia also has a decent HOV ridership with carpools and slug lines, now extending all the way down to Fredericksburg.
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