US-290 between Austin and Houston thread (future freeway-ish upgrades when?)

[armadillo speedbump]

71 is in the process of having all stops removed, it will soon be free flowing from at least Austin Oak Hill to I-10.  Brenham and Chappell Hill improvements are in the pipeline, so just need a Giddings bypass and Elgin-Manor improvements to become free flowing all the way.  Good enough for 99% of the population.

[thisdj78]

71 is in the process of having all stops removed, it will soon be free flowing from at least Austin Oak Hill to I-10.  Brenham and Chappell Hill improvements are in the pipeline, so just need a Giddings bypass and Elgin-Manor improvements to become free flowing all the way.  Good enough for 99% of the population.

Don't forget, on SH71, Ellinger needs a bypass as well. Yes it's technically "free flowing"  through the town but the slower speed limit and gas/general store traffic pulling in and out, can make it unsafe.

[ethanhopkin14]

71 is in the process of having all stops removed, it will soon be free flowing from at least Austin Oak Hill to I-10.  Brenham and Chappell Hill improvements are in the pipeline, so just need a Giddings bypass and Elgin-Manor improvements to become free flowing all the way.  Good enough for 99% of the population.

As I have said a billion times on this forum, I cannot stand the "good enough" approach to anything in my life.  Having an expressway with at-grade intersections on it that is the route between a town with 2.5 million people and a town on 6 million people is far from good enough.  Tell the person that was driving 75 miles per hour and had some old man in a pickup turn in front of them because his driveway connected directly to the highway and it killed both of them that the very unsafe conditions that where created were "good enough."

[sprjus4]

71 is in the process of having all stops removed, it will soon be free flowing from at least Austin Oak Hill to I-10.  Brenham and Chappell Hill improvements are in the pipeline, so just need a Giddings bypass and Elgin-Manor improvements to become free flowing all the way.  Good enough for 99% of the population.

As I have said a billion times on this forum, I cannot stand the "good enough" approach to anything in my life.  Having an expressway with at-grade intersections on it that is the route between a town with 2.5 million people and a town on 6 million people is far from good enough.  Tell the person that was driving 75 miles per hour and had some old man in a pickup turn in front of them because his driveway connected directly to the highway and it killed both of them that the very unsafe conditions that where created were "good enough."

Every road has its issues. It comes down to priorities. How many of these accidents have actually occurred? Do you have statistics? What is the crash frequency on the roadway? Is there a pressing need for safety improvements, such as billions of dollars being invested over spending a billion dollars to finish widening I-10 to 6 lanes, for example?

[TXtoNJ]

71 is in the process of having all stops removed, it will soon be free flowing from at least Austin Oak Hill to I-10.  Brenham and Chappell Hill improvements are in the pipeline, so just need a Giddings bypass and Elgin-Manor improvements to become free flowing all the way.  Good enough for 99% of the population.

As I have said a billion times on this forum, I cannot stand the "good enough" approach to anything in my life.  Having an expressway with at-grade intersections on it that is the route between a town with 2.5 million people and a town on 6 million people is far from good enough.  Tell the person that was driving 75 miles per hour and had some old man in a pickup turn in front of them because his driveway connected directly to the highway and it killed both of them that the very unsafe conditions that where created were "good enough."

Agreed, which is why there needs to be high speed rail. But most people are satisficers, rather than optimizers. Your view isn't a popular one.

[thisdj78]

71 is in the process of having all stops removed, it will soon be free flowing from at least Austin Oak Hill to I-10.  Brenham and Chappell Hill improvements are in the pipeline, so just need a Giddings bypass and Elgin-Manor improvements to become free flowing all the way.  Good enough for 99% of the population.

As I have said a billion times on this forum, I cannot stand the "good enough" approach to anything in my life.  Having an expressway with at-grade intersections on it that is the route between a town with 2.5 million people and a town on 6 million people is far from good enough.  Tell the person that was driving 75 miles per hour and had some old man in a pickup turn in front of them because his driveway connected directly to the highway and it killed both of them that the very unsafe conditions that where created were "good enough."

Every road has its issues. It comes down to priorities. How many of these accidents have actually occurred? Do you have statistics? What is the crash frequency on the roadway? Is there a pressing need for safety improvements, such as billions of dollars being invested over spending a billion dollars to finish widening I-10 to 6 lanes, for example?

Granted, this is only a portion of US290, but it goes to show just how dangerous this road is in its current configuration:

https://www.kvue.com/article/news/local/205-crashes-have-occurred-in-the-stretch-of-us-290-between-elgin-and-mcdade-in-the-last-5-years/269-622941252

[kphoger]

71 is in the process of having all stops removed, it will soon be free flowing from at least Austin Oak Hill to I-10.  Brenham and Chappell Hill improvements are in the pipeline, so just need a Giddings bypass and Elgin-Manor improvements to become free flowing all the way.  Good enough for 99% of the population.

As I have said a billion times on this forum, I cannot stand the "good enough" approach to anything in my life.  Having an expressway with at-grade intersections on it that is the route between a town with 2.5 million people and a town on 6 million people is far from good enough.  Tell the person that was driving 75 miles per hour and had some old man in a pickup turn in front of them because his driveway connected directly to the highway and it killed both of them that the very unsafe conditions that where created were "good enough."

Agreed, which is why there needs to be high speed rail. But most people are satisficers, rather than optimizers. Your view isn't a popular one.

I doubt the traffic reduction resulting from high-speed rail would amount to anything more than a drop in the bucket.

[TXtoNJ]

71 is in the process of having all stops removed, it will soon be free flowing from at least Austin Oak Hill to I-10.  Brenham and Chappell Hill improvements are in the pipeline, so just need a Giddings bypass and Elgin-Manor improvements to become free flowing all the way.  Good enough for 99% of the population.

As I have said a billion times on this forum, I cannot stand the "good enough" approach to anything in my life.  Having an expressway with at-grade intersections on it that is the route between a town with 2.5 million people and a town on 6 million people is far from good enough.  Tell the person that was driving 75 miles per hour and had some old man in a pickup turn in front of them because his driveway connected directly to the highway and it killed both of them that the very unsafe conditions that where created were "good enough."

Agreed, which is why there needs to be high speed rail. But most people are satisficers, rather than optimizers. Your view isn't a popular one.

I doubt the traffic reduction resulting from high-speed rail would amount to anything more than a drop in the bucket.

But it is much, much safer than driving

[Bobby5280]

Trains don't go straight to the driveway of your house.

For the vast majority of Americans passenger rail is not a practical solution AT ALL. And I'm not even talking about the extremely over-priced "high speed" version of it. We can't even get regular speed rail right in this country without a short commuter line costing billions of dollars. Never mind the pie in the sky high speed rail stuff (tens or hundreds of billions there).

Most Americans have to own a motor vehicle even when living in a metro that has light rail, subways and/or elevated commuter train lines. The big downside with using mass transit is it wastes a LOT of time. There's nothing fast at all about commuting via a city bus or subway train. The only advantage one has with using such a mode of transportation is you might be able to avoid high costs of parking an automobile in a major city center. In a city like New York it's more advantageous to take the train because of the parking costs as well as bridge/tunnel tolls. But you still lose a LOT of time commuting by train, bus or ferry there.

Americans like their personal vehicles. They provide independence of movement and a decent amount of privacy.

[sprjus4]

In a city like New York it's more advantageous to take the train because of the parking costs as well as bridge/tunnel tolls. But you still lose a LOT of time commuting by train, bus or ferry there.

I'd argue due to traffic and difficultly finding places to park in somewhere such as Manhattan, the subway would be probably be far more advantageous and faster overall. You lose time stuck in traffic, trying to find a place to park, walking a mile and half from where you parked, etc.

However, I agree that in most places, rail is going to add more time than driving.

[thisdj78]

In a city like New York it's more advantageous to take the train because of the parking costs as well as bridge/tunnel tolls. But you still lose a LOT of time commuting by train, bus or ferry there.

I'd argue due to traffic and difficultly finding places to park in somewhere such as Manhattan, the subway would be probably be far more advantageous and faster overall. You lose time stuck in traffic, trying to find a place to park, walking a mile and half from where you parked, etc.

However, I agree that in most places, rail is going to add more time than driving.

Yep, plus our entire culture and cities are built around driving cars. Contrast that with most European cities that have grown around other modes of transport, like mass transit, walking or bicycles.

[Rothman]

In a city like New York it's more advantageous to take the train because of the parking costs as well as bridge/tunnel tolls. But you still lose a LOT of time commuting by train, bus or ferry there.

I'd argue due to traffic and difficultly finding places to park in somewhere such as Manhattan, the subway would be probably be far more advantageous and faster overall. You lose time stuck in traffic, trying to find a place to park, walking a mile and half from where you parked, etc.

However, I agree that in most places, rail is going to add more time than driving.

Yep, plus our entire culture and cities are built around driving cars. Contrast that with most European cities that have grown around other modes of transport, like mass transit, walking or bicycles.

I know you're talking about living there, but I've found driving right into Manhattan and then using public transit to get around much more economical time and money-wise than using the available rail services to get to the metro area.

[TXtoNJ]

Y'all are missing the point - if we're concerned with min-maxing safety, then high speed rail is the only option. That's not what we're going for here - it's a balance of safety, speed, and serving local traffic. Nobody in the region outside of roadgeeks is pushing for an interstate corridor for either 290 or 71, because the planned upgrades are seen as an acceptable combination of all three above factors.

[Bobby5280]

I know you're talking about living there, but I've found driving right into Manhattan and then using public transit to get around much more economical time and money-wise than using the available rail services to get to the metro area.

That would depend on where you were starting your drive into Manhattan. Four of the bridges connecting Manhattan to Brooklyn and Queens don't have tolls. If you have an EZ-Pass the Queens Midtown Tunnel toll (I think) is under $7. I think it's the same for the Battery Tunnel. Driving into Manhattan from New Jersey or Staten Island is going to cost more due to the higher tolls and/or more toll bridges/tunnels to cross.

Commuting was one of my least favorite things about living in New York City. I lived on Staten Island for 4 of those 5 years. From Staten Island to Manhattan took roughly 90 minutes each way. Standing at a bus stop early in the morning in often freezing, windy weather was no fun. It would take at least 20 minutes to get up to the St George Ferry terminal. Hopefully the bus would be pulling into the station before the next boat was leaving. The ferry ride is about half an hour. If the timing was right I'd catch a bus across the Verrazano Bridge to the Bay Ridge area in Brooklyn and get on the R train. That might cut 20 or so minutes off the commute time. Riding the subway was not a fast process. All the station stops take time. All the various delays in the tunnels use up time too. Whenever I was able to ride in a passenger vehicle into Manhattan it felt like a luxury.

Y'all are missing the point - if we're concerned with min-maxing safety, then high speed rail is the only option.

That safety thing is an illusion. Again, a high speed rail line is not going to drop you off at the door step of your house. You have to use other modes of transportation to get to that high speed rail station, like driving a passenger car.

Interstate quality roads on the US-290 and TX-71 corridors are going to be far less costly and far easier to build than a freaking high speed rail line. Americans are going to drive their cars. It's not as clear they'll be willing to pay a premium to park and ride on a high speed train (and then rent a vehicle or something after reaching their destination).

[TXtoNJ]

Did you read the rest of the post?

[thisdj78]

Y'all are missing the point - if we're concerned with min-maxing safety, then high speed rail is the only option. That's not what we're going for here - it's a balance of safety, speed, and serving local traffic. Nobody in the region outside of roadgeeks is pushing for an interstate corridor for either 290 or 71, because the planned upgrades are seen as an acceptable combination of all three above factors.

When congressmen proposed designating 290 as an Interstate, they cited commerce as the primary motivating factor. Having an Interstate run by Brenham, Giddings and Elgin would do wonders for them attracting large businesses with significant semi-truck traffic. Look at the amount of big warehouses in small towns along Interstates vs those that aren't.

[TXtoNJ]

Y'all are missing the point - if we're concerned with min-maxing safety, then high speed rail is the only option. That's not what we're going for here - it's a balance of safety, speed, and serving local traffic. Nobody in the region outside of roadgeeks is pushing for an interstate corridor for either 290 or 71, because the planned upgrades are seen as an acceptable combination of all three above factors.

When congressmen proposed designating 290 as an Interstate, they cited commerce as the primary motivating factor. Having an Interstate run by Brenham, Giddings and Elgin would do wonders for them attracting large businesses with significant semi-truck traffic. Look at the amount of big warehouses in small towns along Interstates vs those that aren't.

They're promoting I-14 more, because Killeen/B-CS/Huntsville are all bigger cities with the same ambitions.

It gets frustrating when people from the region are mentioning why this isn't happening, only to be met with "well it should!", without any regard for the surrounding political process.

[thisdj78]

Y'all are missing the point - if we're concerned with min-maxing safety, then high speed rail is the only option. That's not what we're going for here - it's a balance of safety, speed, and serving local traffic. Nobody in the region outside of roadgeeks is pushing for an interstate corridor for either 290 or 71, because the planned upgrades are seen as an acceptable combination of all three above factors.

When congressmen proposed designating 290 as an Interstate, they cited commerce as the primary motivating factor. Having an Interstate run by Brenham, Giddings and Elgin would do wonders for them attracting large businesses with significant semi-truck traffic. Look at the amount of big warehouses in small towns along Interstates vs those that aren't.

They're promoting I-14 more, because Killeen/B-CS/Huntsville are all bigger cities with the same ambitions.

It gets frustrating when people from the region are mentioning why this isn't happening, only to be met with "well it should!", without any regard for the surrounding political process.

I understand that, I was just pointing out that the one time 290 was close to being proposed as an Interstate, it wasn't just safety cited as the reasoning. Funny enough, construction to standards and I-XX designation for 290 could be accomplished much faster and have quicker impact on the region than I-14 would, especially when you're talking about towns in between two large metro areas and closer access to ports and major airports.

[MikieTimT]

In a city like New York it's more advantageous to take the train because of the parking costs as well as bridge/tunnel tolls. But you still lose a LOT of time commuting by train, bus or ferry there.

I'd argue due to traffic and difficultly finding places to park in somewhere such as Manhattan, the subway would be probably be far more advantageous and faster overall. You lose time stuck in traffic, trying to find a place to park, walking a mile and half from where you parked, etc.

However, I agree that in most places, rail is going to add more time than driving.

Yep, plus our entire culture and cities are built around driving cars. Contrast that with most European cities that have grown around other modes of transport, like mass transit, walking or bicycles.

The folks living in Texas couldn't be more different than the folks in Europe.  Texas is growing, Europe is aging and shrinking.  Texas' growth started after the advent of automobiles (and more specifically, air conditioning), whereas European cities all developed long before the advent of the automobile and most even before rail.  The folks hoping our culture would change to facilitate rail in Texas clearly haven't spent much time in Texas.  The only way it works in Texas outside of potentially the Texas Triangle is if the rail has railcars to drive your car onto like the Amtrak Auto Train.  Houston will never have a usable mass transit system that doesn't rely on busses that fight most of the same traffic issues as cars.

[jgb191]

Slightly irrelevant to the title of this, but what is the possibility of upgrading the US-290 a four-lane divided highway from Austin westward to connect with I-10 between Ingram and Junction?  Obviously reroutes around Johnson City and Fredricksburg (maybe even Harper?).

[sprjus4]

Slightly irrelevant to the title of this, but what is the possibility of upgrading the US-290 a four-lane divided highway from Austin westward to connect with I-10 between Ingram and Junction?  Obviously reroutes around Johnson City and Fredricksburg (maybe even Harper?).

I think four lane divided highway would be a good option for the long term... in terms of actual plans. I believe a freeway bypass around Fredericksburg was recently canned... so I don't see any major developments happening anytime soon.

[Bobby5280]

Right now the main focus has to be on US-290 between the Austin and Houston metro areas. However, the US-290 corridor going West out of Austin is carrying ever greater loads of traffic. The current construction project in Oak Hill to extend the US-290 freeway to the Circle Drive split is a good start. Due to the residential and commercial growth in the areas West of Austin that freeway will eventually have to be extended past Dripping Springs somehow and probably as far West at the US-281 corridor.

Other corridors in that immediate region will need improvements and expansion. I think the South half of the TX-45 "loop" should be extended West to the US-290 corridor. Over the long term, if Texas keeps adding population like it has been, the US-281 corridor may have to be improved into an Interstate quality relief route for I-35.

I think Austin is a big enough metro (over 2 million in population) to justify an Interstate quality outlet Westward past Fredericksburg to I-10. Currently Austin has a modest-sized distribution and logistics hub. New things like the Tesla Giga plant and further additions in the future could dramatically increase the amount of commercial truck traffic on the roads going out in all directions. Austin doesn't have much in terms of rail infrastructure compared to Houston, DFW or even San Antonio. There is no rail line going West out of Austin. The main North-South line is single track. Distribution centers will have to depend more on the airport and trucks to move goods in/out of Austin. That could improve the odds for more improvements to the US-290 corridor between Austin and I-10 out West.

[sprjus4]

The idea for an interstate quality route along US-290 to I-10 west may seem plausible on paper, however the traffic volumes do not warrant more than a 2 lane road in most areas. I think 4 lanes divided with town bypasses would be a good compromise, with room for expansion if that day ever came.

[kphoger]

The idea for an interstate quality route along US-290 to I-10 west may seem plausible on paper, however the traffic volumes do not warrant more than a 2 lane road in most areas. I think 4 lanes divided with town bypasses would be a good compromise, with room for expansion if that day ever came.

I think a full freeway is warranted out to Dripping Springs, but traffic volumes drop precipitously west of that point.

2021 AADT
36131 – Travis/Hays county line
32841 – Dripping Springs, eastern limit
8848 – Hays/Blanco county line (Henly)
7244 – Jct. US-281
7841 – Johnson City, western limit
5986 – Blanco/Gillespie county line
7267 – Stonewall, RM-1623 overlap
11463 – Fredericksburg, eastern limit
5775 – Fredericksburg, western limit
4836 – Harper, RM-783 overlap
2194 – Gillespie/Kimball county line
1001 – Jct. I-10

[TheBox]

Just another recap of future planned US-290 plans (between Houston and Austin) by me
Still waiting on those Manor-Elgin freeway/tollway, Elgin bypass, and Giddings bypass plans (if any)

Chappell Hill overpass


Brenham re-alignment