Telephone numbers

[zachary_amaryllis]

That may seem like ancient history to you, but my grandfather had a rotary telephone until the day he moved into a nursing home about twenty years ago.

I have a rotary dial telephone, and it still works, including the central office switch understanding the dial.

My aunt that worked for Ma Bell still has a rotary dial as an emergency backup (I have one, but it is attached to a four-prong RCA connector block and I would need to cut it off in order to wire it in).  I'm not sure why the telephone companies are still required to support pulse dial, but it is notable that many of the oldest touch-tone phones had a conversion switch that allows the phone to send pulse-dial signals (in the case of a failure on the touch-tone circuit board).  I had an old touch-tone phone that I had to switch over to pulse-dial because one of the button tones failed.

Back in the day - late 1970s, early 1980s or so - touch tone dialing was an extra cost service.  The phone company (there was Only One) would charge you an extra dollar or something on your bill every month.  Touch tone dialing would only work if you were forking over the loot.  So many older phones had a switch to send pulse dial.

Nevermind that quicker dialing with touch-tone actually saved the phone company money, because the central office switch could read the numbers faster than pulse dial so they didn't need to keep the circuit open as long and didn't need as many circuits...

Since a pulse phone is effectively picking up and hanging up the line, quickly, is it possible to dial a number by jiggling the switch-hook quickly, or make/breaking the line? seems like that could be useful in an emergency.

Trapped somewhere, and there's just a phone jack. Could you blind-dial 911 or something that way?

It's possible but it's very sensitive to timing.  Easier to dial a 1 or a 2 than a 9 or a 10.  Getting good at it was a skill very few people bothered to acquire

Back in the modem days, I used to play with one of the S-registers (S11, iirc) that governed some parameter of tone dialing, and see how low I could set it, and still be able to successfully dial. Around here you could set it quite low, and dial a phone number blazingly fast.

[Dirt Roads]

Since a pulse phone is effectively picking up and hanging up the line, quickly, is it possible to dial a number by jiggling the switch-hook quickly, or make/breaking the line? seems like that could be useful in an emergency.

Trapped somewhere, and there's just a phone jack. Could you blind-dial 911 or something that way?

It's possible but it's very sensitive to timing.  Easier to dial a 1 or a 2 than a 9 or a 10.  Getting good at it was a skill very few people bothered to acquire

Agreed.  In my days on the railroad, I worked alongside the very last remaining section of Western Union telegraph line.  Every railroad office was equipped with a telegraph drop and we could use the line for either direct-drop telephone voice service or telegraph service.  Each station was assigned a two-digit touch-tone address (followed by the pound key), or an old-timey three-pulse telegraph code.  Most of the stations still had hand cranks, and unless it was an emergency, we were expected to hand-crank the codes (even for voice calls).  There was a ring-back tone on the line if the code was accepted at the other end.  My office was historically the second-most important (signal supervisor), so the code was two shorts and one long.  Even these simple crank codes took a little bit of practice to get proficient at.

All of this reminds me why I still wonder about why the landlines still have pulse-dial service.  These hand-crank pulses require a 100VDC current carrier.  Until recently, we've had big issues out here in the sticks with high resistance on the landline circuits.  We can still take an old-timey pulse dial phone to "crank out" the high resistance in the circuit, but if you ever make the mistake of starting out with a long zero you might get hit with a "411 Charge" for a call to the operator.   

[kphoger]

I'm not sure why the telephone companies are still required to support pulse dial

All of this reminds me why I still wonder about why the landlines still have pulse-dial service.

I mean, we've already identified at least two people on this thread alone who own a rotary phone.  AFAIK, there isn't any data out there on how many people are still using them, but it's obviously a non-zero number.

Since a pulse phone is effectively picking up and hanging up the line, quickly, is it possible to dial a number by jiggling the switch-hook quickly, or make/breaking the line? seems like that could be useful in an emergency.

Similarly, I once met a kid whose dad had produced and recorded the DTMF signal for all ten digits of touch-tone dialing onto his computer or whatever.  Reportedly, he could then arrange them into a phone number sequence, play them back into a handheld telephone receiver, and it would place the call–no buttons required.  I'm not sure that would work in the age of cell phones.

[Dirt Roads]

Since a pulse phone is effectively picking up and hanging up the line, quickly, is it possible to dial a number by jiggling the switch-hook quickly, or make/breaking the line? seems like that could be useful in an emergency.

Similarly, I once met a kid whose dad had produced and recorded the DTMF signal for all ten digits of touch-tone dialing onto his computer or whatever.  Reportedly, he could then arrange them into a phone number sequence, play them back into a handheld telephone receiver, and it would place the call–no buttons required.  I'm not sure that would work in the age of cell phones.

Somewhere in my DOS world, I still have a freeware PIM program that did the same exact thing via the old dial-up modem on my computer.  I found that I could manipulate the code sequence to playback my home answering machine without actually walking the five feet across the room to push the buttons manually.  Ah, those were the good ole' lazy days of computers.

[kphoger]

Somewhere in my DOS world, I still have a freeware PIM program that did the same exact thing via the old dial-up modem on my computer.  I found that I could manipulate the code sequence to playback my home answering machine without actually walking the five feet across the room to push the buttons manually.  Ah, those were the good ole' lazy days of computers.

I wonder if running that program on a Pentium computer would cause the tones to play lightning fast instead.

When I was a kid, I grew up playing Blockbuster on 5¼" floppy disk.  Fifteen or twenty years ago, I missed playing it, so I downloaded a bootleg copy for DOS/CmdPrompt and tried playing on a P3 computer.  The game was over within four seconds.  So then I downloaded Mo'Slo and did trial-and-error until I found what percentage of OS speed was needed to make the game playable (only whole numbers allowed).  As I recall, I had to slow it down to 7% or 8%.  I'm sure even 1% would be too fast on today's computers.

[kkt]

Depends how they wrote the timing loops... there are portable and nonportable ways to write them.  For a DOS game, though, I would not have super high expectations.

[Scott5114]

There is obviously no reason to change zip codes.

As to area codes or phone numbers, the goofed up when they started all the overlays and area splits.  They could have just gone to four numbers, adding a zero to all the area codes and then up from there and had an inexhaustible supply.

Zip codes would be nicer with letters.

If they had letters, they'd have to be careful not to assign offensive words to zip codes.

And what's not to say that the words they did assign become offensive sometime in the future? Language is always changing, and what is considered a simple derogatory term today could be a highly offensive slur in the future.

While it's much less likely to happen, numbers can and do become offensive sometimes too (it's just more awkward because we can't really stop using a number).

As an example of that, Jeopardy doesn't allow players to use certain numbers as wagers on Daily Doubles or in Final Jeopardy. The prohibited amounts are $69 (banned in 2018), $666, $14, $88, and $1488. [...] Interestingly, $420 is allowed.

Yep, those are the numbers I was thinking of when I made that post.

And, hey, you may not be able to wager $666, but you can wager $491. Unless Ken is wise to that from his time spent on the forum.

[1995hoo]

From what I understand, he didn't make the rule, the producers did. Supposedly he bet $69 at least once, though I don't have the patience to click through J-Archive trying to find when it was.

[Scott5114]

Somewhere in my DOS world, I still have a freeware PIM program that did the same exact thing via the old dial-up modem on my computer.  I found that I could manipulate the code sequence to playback my home answering machine without actually walking the five feet across the room to push the buttons manually.  Ah, those were the good ole' lazy days of computers.

I wonder if running that program on a Pentium computer would cause the tones to play lightning fast instead.

When I was a kid, I grew up playing Blockbuster on 5¼" floppy disk.  Fifteen or twenty years ago, I missed playing it, so I downloaded a bootleg copy for DOS/CmdPrompt and tried playing on a P3 computer.  The game was over within four seconds.  So then I downloaded Mo'Slo and did trial-and-error until I found what percentage of OS speed was needed to make the game playable (only whole numbers allowed).  As I recall, I had to slow it down to 7% or 8%.  I'm sure even 1% would be too fast on today's computers.

There is a program called DOSBox that emulates an entire DOS system, including the typical processor speed (which you can adjust up and down if need be), specifically for running old games, although you can run stuff like ancient office software too.

[michravera]

There is obviously no reason to change zip codes.

As to area codes or phone numbers, the goofed up when they started all the overlays and area splits.  They could have just gone to four numbers, adding a zero to all the area codes and then up from there and had an inexhaustible supply.

Zip codes would be nicer with letters.

Why? You keep saying it would be better or nicer but give no reasons. Unless you have a reason, you're just trolling. Again.

I like letters as identifiers very greatly.

Move to Canada! I believe that basically all of their postal codes contain letters.

[Dirt Roads]

Somewhere in my DOS world, I still have a freeware PIM program that did the same exact thing via the old dial-up modem on my computer.  I found that I could manipulate the code sequence to playback my home answering machine without actually walking the five feet across the room to push the buttons manually.  Ah, those were the good ole' lazy days of computers.

I wonder if running that program on a Pentium computer would cause the tones to play lightning fast instead.

Many of those programs ran way too fast on my old Turbo 8086 machine, and they were lightning fast on my first 386.  I don't recall trying to use any commercial software packages that weren't certified for computers that could run Windows, so I don't know if the tones (plus voice and other sounds) would have been too fast.

[6a]

The zip code system actually has eleven digits: the base five digits that everyone is familiar with, then the plus-four code that you can include if you want, and then there's a two-digit "delivery point" code that is basically only ever used by USPS. Put it all together and you have an eleven-digit code that uniquely identifies every mailbox in the United States.

What possible change could even be needed, especially when there are loads of five-digit ZIPs that have yet to be allocated, and the eleven-digit codes allow for a million addresses in each ZIP?

Tested this theory when I was a kid, living in Rescue, VA. I had my father here in Colorado send a letter addressed to nothing more than 'Rescue VA 23424-0014", from [his zip+4]. It got to me. To be fair, Rescue is a small, non-delivery post office, but yeah, it does seem to work.

The only thing I wonder about, is that here, addresses on one side of the street have one +4, and the other side has a different one. Every house (from what I've seen) on the same side, has the same +4.

The post office is surprisingly good at finding where mail is supposed to go. While I was living in Norman, OK, the state of Maryland, in its infinite wisdom, once sent me a letter addressed to {my name}, {correct street number, misspelled street}, Norman's Island, MD {incorrect zip code that corresponds to a random small town in Texas}. The letter actually managed to arrive.

When I lived in Virginia, my address was Rt 1, Box 564C (don't worry, it's since gotten a proper address). I had several pieces of mail simply addressed as [name] Rt 1, Appomattox, and they got to me.

[Scott5114]

Rural route addresses were fun. When I was growing up, ours was Route 1 Box 31B1. We lived at the beginning of the street, so our across-the-street neighbors were box 31B1A, next door was 31B1B, diagonally across was 31B1C, and so on down the street to 31B1W.

[kphoger]

When I lived in Virginia, my address was Rt 1, Box 564C (don't worry, it's since gotten a proper address). I had several pieces of mail simply addressed as [name] Rt 1, Appomattox, and they got to me.

My mom once received a thank-you letter addressed to "Nurse Sue / Atwood, KS".  And it got to her just fine.

[dlsterner]

Rural route addresses were fun. When I was growing up, ours was Route 1 Box 31B1. We lived at the beginning of the street, so our across-the-street neighbors were box 31B1A, next door was 31B1B, diagonally across was 31B1C, and so on down the street to 31B1W.

Growing up in Lancaster County PA in the 1960's, may family's address was something like:

John Q. Public
R.D. #1
Quarryville PA 17566

and mail got to us just fine, just based on the address name.  The "R.D." stood for "Rural Delivery".  At the time our road did not have a name, nor the house a number.  (It has both now).  Likewise our phone number was of the form:  KI(mball) 8-1234 (fake last 4 digits).  And it was a party line.

[michravera]

Rural route addresses were fun. When I was growing up, ours was Route 1 Box 31B1. We lived at the beginning of the street, so our across-the-street neighbors were box 31B1A, next door was 31B1B, diagonally across was 31B1C, and so on down the street to 31B1W.

Growing up in Lancaster County PA in the 1960's, may family's address was something like:

John Q. Public
R.D. #1
Quarryville PA 17566

and mail got to us just fine, just based on the address name.  The "R.D." stood for "Rural Delivery".  At the time our road did not have a name, nor the house a number.  (It has both now).  Likewise our phone number was of the form:  KI(mball) 8-1234 (fake last 4 digits).  And it was a party line.

I expect someone who has had an apartment in suburban Salt Lake City to beat this pretty easily, but when I lived in Austin, TX, I had 10 digits in my address without the postal code. It was something like "18350 IH-35 Rm 525".

[bing101]

https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/industries-and-topics/internet-and-phone/area-codes-and-numbering/707-area-code
https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/209areacode
Here are updates to California's area codes.
707 which covers an area as far south as Benicia  to the Redwood Coast and the Oregon border will get an overlay area code as 369 in 2023. This is one of 14 areas of California where the area code is in an overlay.

[Big John]

Rural route addresses were fun. When I was growing up, ours was Route 1 Box 31B1. We lived at the beginning of the street, so our across-the-street neighbors were box 31B1A, next door was 31B1B, diagonally across was 31B1C, and so on down the street to 31B1W.

Growing up in Lancaster County PA in the 1960's, may family's address was something like:

John Q. Public
R.D. #1
Quarryville PA 17566

and mail got to us just fine, just based on the address name.  The "R.D." stood for "Rural Delivery".  At the time our road did not have a name, nor the house a number.  (It has both now).  Likewise our phone number was of the form:  KI(mball) 8-1234 (fake last 4 digits).  And it was a party line.

I expect someone who has had an apartment in suburban Salt Lake City to beat this pretty easily, but when I lived in Austin, TX, I had 10 digits in my address without the postal code. It was something like "18350 IH-35 Rm 525".

Certain suburbs of Milwaukee use a grid system for the numerical portion, such as W150N10000 Street Name.  The first part being athe block number crossing the street and the second being the actual address.

[mgk920]

Rural route addresses were fun. When I was growing up, ours was Route 1 Box 31B1. We lived at the beginning of the street, so our across-the-street neighbors were box 31B1A, next door was 31B1B, diagonally across was 31B1C, and so on down the street to 31B1W.

Growing up in Lancaster County PA in the 1960's, may family's address was something like:

John Q. Public
R.D. #1
Quarryville PA 17566

and mail got to us just fine, just based on the address name.  The "R.D." stood for "Rural Delivery".  At the time our road did not have a name, nor the house a number.  (It has both now).  Likewise our phone number was of the form:  KI(mball) 8-1234 (fake last 4 digits).  And it was a party line.

I expect someone who has had an apartment in suburban Salt Lake City to beat this pretty easily, but when I lived in Austin, TX, I had 10 digits in my address without the postal code. It was something like "18350 IH-35 Rm 525".

Certain suburbs of Milwaukee use a grid system for the numerical portion, such as W150N10000 Street Name.  The first part being athe block number crossing the street and the second being the actual address.

Ans yet most of those suburbs base those grids on the Milwaukee city street address grid.  I have always found those addresses to be needlessly confusing (violating the 'KISS' principal).

MIKE

[hobsini2]

US and Canadian telephone numbering system should have clusters in area codes. Such as 2 in east, 9 in west. And area codes should be both 3 and 4-digit.

Perhaps you need to learn some area code history. There was a rhyme and reason to the area codes when they were introduced in 1947.
States that had a 0 in the middle were states that only had 1 area code assigned at that time. States with a 1 in the middle had multiple.
Once the 1s and 0s were gone, that's when they started assigning numbers with a middle number of 3-9.

[hobsini2]

Rural route addresses were fun. When I was growing up, ours was Route 1 Box 31B1. We lived at the beginning of the street, so our across-the-street neighbors were box 31B1A, next door was 31B1B, diagonally across was 31B1C, and so on down the street to 31B1W.

Growing up in Lancaster County PA in the 1960's, may family's address was something like:

John Q. Public
R.D. #1
Quarryville PA 17566

and mail got to us just fine, just based on the address name.  The "R.D." stood for "Rural Delivery".  At the time our road did not have a name, nor the house a number.  (It has both now).  Likewise our phone number was of the form:  KI(mball) 8-1234 (fake last 4 digits).  And it was a party line.

I expect someone who has had an apartment in suburban Salt Lake City to beat this pretty easily, but when I lived in Austin, TX, I had 10 digits in my address without the postal code. It was something like "18350 IH-35 Rm 525".

Certain suburbs of Milwaukee use a grid system for the numerical portion, such as W150N10000 Street Name.  The first part being athe block number crossing the street and the second being the actual address.

Ans yet most of those suburbs base those grids on the Milwaukee city street address grid.  I have always found those addresses to be needlessly confusing (violating the 'KISS' principal).

MIKE

The rural system in Northern Illinois is based on the location the address is in relation to the corner of State St & Madison St in Chicago. For example, an address of 42W855 Hwy 64 means you are 42 miles west of State St within the 800 block. I know this is widely used in Cook, DuPage, Kane, Kendall, Lake, McHenry & Will Counties but I don't know how far south or west it is used.

[kphoger]

US and Canadian telephone numbering system should have clusters in area codes. Such as 2 in east, 9 in west. And area codes should be both 3 and 4-digit.

Actually no.  If you look at the original map, understand the population at the time (1947, before the great migration to the South) and understand how dial telephones work(ed) you understand the system. 

The middle digit had to be a 0 or a 1.  0s were assigned to jurisdictions that had only one area code, 1s to places with multiple ones.  Look at the dial.  The smallest number of clicks thus went to New York City, 212 followed by LA 213, Chicage 312, etc.  The smallest single jurisdiction area code went to New Jersey 201, followed by DC 202.  the longest combinations went to places like west Texas, the Canadian Maritimes, Vermont and all those farm states in the Midwest. 

Note that no southern state, unless you count Texas, had more than one area code.  That is how few people lived in Florida, for example, before air conditioning and the wise use of fossil energy to power it. 

US and Canadian telephone numbering system should have clusters in area codes. Such as 2 in east, 9 in west. And area codes should be both 3 and 4-digit.

Perhaps you need to learn some area code history. There was a rhyme and reason to the area codes when they were introduced in 1947.
States that had a 0 in the middle were states that only had 1 area code assigned at that time. States with a 1 in the middle had multiple.
Once the 1s and 0s were gone, that's when they started assigning numbers with a middle number of 3-9.

Think we're getting through to him?   



I'll throw Mexico's system in for kicks.  Phone numbers are ten digits, just as in the USA.  Most phone numbers have a 3-digit area code and a 7-digit local number, just as in the USA.  However, the three most populous urban areas (Mexico City, Guadalajara, Monterrey) have a 2-digit area code and an 8-digit local number.  In the past, this actually mattered.  To dial a local number within Monterrey, for example, one used to dial ####-####.  To dial Monterrey from outside the area, one would dial 01-81-####-####.  However, since 2019, 10-digit dialing has been implemented nationwide and all prefixes done away with (except for 00 for international calls).  Therefore, to call a number in Monterrey, no matter where in Mexico you're calling from, it's just 81-####-#### now.

The result of this is that Mexico City, Guadalajara, and Monterrey functionally now have clustered area codes:

Mexico City
Area code, technically = 55 and 56
Area code cluster, functionally = 550 through 569

Guadalajara
Area code, technically = 33
Area code cluster, functionally = 330 through 339

Monterrey
Area code, technically = 81
Area code cluster, functionally = 810 through 819

Having said that, I should also point out that area codes are grouped geographically by first digit:
2##-###-#### – Eastern Mexico
3##-###-#### – Western Mexico
33-####-#### – Guadalajara, which is in western Mexico
4##-###-#### – North-central Mexico
5##-###-#### – Near Mexico City
55-####-#### – Mexico City metro area
56-####-#### – Mexico City metro area
6##-###-#### – Northwestern Mexico
7##-###-#### – Southern Mexico
8##-###-#### – Northeastern Mexico
81-####-#### – Monterrey, which is in northeastern Mexico
9##-###-#### – Southeastern Mexico

[hobsini2]

https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/industries-and-topics/internet-and-phone/area-codes-and-numbering/707-area-code
https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/209areacode
Here are updates to California's area codes.
707 which covers an area as far south as Benicia  to the Redwood Coast and the Oregon border will get an overlay area code as 369 in 2023. This is one of 14 areas of California where the area code is in an overlay.

And to think California once only had 3 area codes. 213 for LA-Bakersfield-San Diego, 415 for the Bay-Sacramento-Fresno and 916 for Northern Cali.

[Poiponen13]

US and Canadian telephone numbering system should have clusters in area codes. Such as 2 in east, 9 in west. And area codes should be both 3 and 4-digit.

Actually no.  If you look at the original map, understand the population at the time (1947, before the great migration to the South) and understand how dial telephones work(ed) you understand the system. 

The middle digit had to be a 0 or a 1.  0s were assigned to jurisdictions that had only one area code, 1s to places with multiple ones.  Look at the dial.  The smallest number of clicks thus went to New York City, 212 followed by LA 213, Chicage 312, etc.  The smallest single jurisdiction area code went to New Jersey 201, followed by DC 202.  the longest combinations went to places like west Texas, the Canadian Maritimes, Vermont and all those farm states in the Midwest. 

Note that no southern state, unless you count Texas, had more than one area code.  That is how few people lived in Florida, for example, before air conditioning and the wise use of fossil energy to power it. 

US and Canadian telephone numbering system should have clusters in area codes. Such as 2 in east, 9 in west. And area codes should be both 3 and 4-digit.

Perhaps you need to learn some area code history. There was a rhyme and reason to the area codes when they were introduced in 1947.
States that had a 0 in the middle were states that only had 1 area code assigned at that time. States with a 1 in the middle had multiple.
Once the 1s and 0s were gone, that's when they started assigning numbers with a middle number of 3-9.

Think we're getting through to him?   



I'll throw Mexico's system in for kicks.  Phone numbers are ten digits, just as in the USA.  Most phone numbers have a 3-digit area code and a 7-digit local number, just as in the USA.  However, the three most populous urban areas (Mexico City, Guadalajara, Monterrey) have a 2-digit area code and an 8-digit local number.  In the past, this actually mattered.  To dial a local number within Monterrey, for example, one used to dial ####-####.  To dial Monterrey from outside the area, one would dial 01-81-####-####.  However, since 2019, 10-digit dialing has been implemented nationwide and all prefixes done away with (except for 00 for international calls).  Therefore, to call a number in Monterrey, no matter where in Mexico you're calling from, it's just 81-####-#### now.

The result of this is that Mexico City, Guadalajara, and Monterrey functionally now have clustered area codes:

Mexico City
Area code, technically = 55 and 56
Area code cluster, functionally = 550 through 569

Guadalajara
Area code, technically = 33
Area code cluster, functionally = 330 through 339

Monterrey
Area code, technically = 81
Area code cluster, functionally = 810 through 819

Having said that, I should also point out that area codes are grouped geographically by first digit:
2##-###-#### – Eastern Mexico
3##-###-#### – Western Mexico
33-####-#### – Guadalajara, which is in western Mexico
4##-###-#### – North-central Mexico
5##-###-#### – Near Mexico City
55-####-#### – Mexico City metro area
56-####-#### – Mexico City metro area
6##-###-#### – Northwestern Mexico
7##-###-#### – Southern Mexico
8##-###-#### – Northeastern Mexico
81-####-#### – Monterrey, which is in northeastern Mexico
9##-###-#### – Southeastern Mexico

US system should have following rules:
2##-###-#### – NY, CT, RI, MA, VT, NH, ME; QC, NB, PE, NS, NL
3##-###-#### – PA, MD, DC, VA, WV, NC, SC, GA, FL
4##-###-#### – OH, MI, IN, KY, TN, MS, AL; ON
5##-###-#### – IL, WI, MN, IA, MO, AR, LA
6##-###-#### – ND, SD, NE, KS, OK, TX; SK, MB
7##-###-#### – MT, ID, WY, CO, UT, NM, AZ; AB
8##-###-#### – OR, WA; BC, YT, NT, NU
9##-###-#### – CA; Caribbean

[hotdogPi]

US system should have following rules:
2##-###-#### – NY, CT, RI, MA, VT, NH, ME; QC, NB, PE, NS, NL
3##-###-#### – PA, MD, DC, VA, WV, NC, SC, GA, FL
4##-###-#### – OH, MI, IN, KY, TN, MS, AL; ON
5##-###-#### – IL, WI, MN, IA, MO, AR, LA
6##-###-#### – ND, SD, NE, KS, OK, TX; SK, MB
7##-###-#### – MT, ID, WY, CO, UT, NM, AZ; AB
8##-###-#### – OR, WA; BC, YT, NT, NU
9##-###-#### – CA; Caribbean

If that was implemented in 1947 (when the plan first took effect), the western states would have complained about their numbers taking longer to dial.