Ford applies for patent on car that can automatically repossess itself

[ethanhopkin14]

I park my car in the garage.  So if there is a glitch (which you know there will be because there always is one) and then they hit the reposes button, the car I am up to date on just ran away from home and I need a new garage door!!!

There is a lot of fine print here. First, closed garage may be off limits for repossession. Second, you assume automatic car wouldn't recognize there is something in the way. Third, you assume anyone actually expects that repo scheme become real within foreseeable future.

No, I more liked the comedic angle of my car driving away from home and destroying my garage door in the process. 

[kalvado]

I park my car in the garage.  So if there is a glitch (which you know there will be because there always is one) and then they hit the reposes button, the car I am up to date on just ran away from home and I need a new garage door!!!

There is a lot of fine print here. First, closed garage may be off limits for repossession. Second, you assume automatic car wouldn't recognize there is something in the way. Third, you assume anyone actually expects that repo scheme become real within foreseeable future.

No, I more liked the comedic angle of my car driving away from home and destroying my garage door in the process.

Think about it in such a way - if a car can destroy garage door, it can destroy a homo sapiens standing behind that door. And  while I definitely heard about human drivers doing something along those lines, robodriver must be much better at such routine tasks - or face a capital punishment of wipeout with no chance to see a judge before that.

[J N Winkler]

On a grand scheme of things, companies want to switch from "sold and done" to monthly payments for everything. Remember the days when software was sold in a box, for one?

Infamous "seat heater is only included with  a monthly subscription" is a bigger thing from my perspective.

I certainly agree those are concerns, especially since subscription charges have a regressive impact (uniform charge for everybody, no scope to rely on first-sale doctrine for cheap access to past versions) and thereby create barriers to wealth accumulation for those on lower incomes.  But, at the same time, I wonder if they don't also flag opportunities for antitrust enforcement in situations where it is not constitutionally barred.  In order to collect rent from its customers through subscription charges, a company would seem to need some assurance that it won't be undercut by a competitor who adheres to traditional terms, and that in turn could imply collusion, cartelization, or some other anti-competitive mechanism.

[Scott5114]

What happens when you simply refuse to work? 

Then that makes you smarter than all of these dipshits busting their ass and getting nothing out of it, doesn't it?

[kalvado]

What happens when you simply refuse to work? 

Then that makes you smarter than all of these dipshits busting their ass and getting nothing out of it, doesn't it?

[thspfc]

How about a car that drives itself straight back to the dealership when you miss a payment.

[Roadgeekteen]

How about a car that drives itself straight back to the dealership when you miss a payment.

That's literally what the patent proposes kind of

[thspfc]

That wouldn't work because then smart people just wouldn't have that kind of robot. Are you doing your MMM impression?

The bank will send a robot into your house and drag you out.

That's the part where you dump water on it.

[thspfc]

How about a car that drives itself straight back to the dealership when you miss a payment.

That's literally what the patent proposes kind of

I am in full support of this because it would be hilarious.

Don't want robots to steal your car? Pay for it on time.

[thspfc]

[We need to come up with a better method as a society to make sure that this stuff never happens.

We have one

- Get every second of education in a serious marketable field as you possibly can.
- Work hard.
- Pay your bills.
- Pay your debts.
- Don't buy things on credit you cannot afford.
- Lay by a nest egg for a rainy day.

Its called being an adult.

As to the original question, I'm totally down with the idea.  Among the costs of credit are the costs of the deadbeats that has to be spread among all the decent people.  Any system that would lock up a car (self driving cars are science fiction, and there is no need for that, just lock it down and send a signal to HQ to come get it) for non-payment, no insurance, no plates, unpaid tolls, unpaid tickets, and such is great, pushing down the costs that decent people have to pay to cover for other people's irresponsible behaviors.

blah blah bootstraps blah blah blah

The sarcastic response here is definitely telling . . .

[Hobart]

Honestly, this has me curious if you can somehow modify the car to destroy itself while driving back to the dealership; all you'd have to do is swap a few wires on the motor H-bridge, and suddenly, the car is their problem! "If I can't have this car, nobody else can!" Obviously, you should remove the plates first.

[Roadgeekteen]

[We need to come up with a better method as a society to make sure that this stuff never happens.

We have one

- Get every second of education in a serious marketable field as you possibly can.
- Work hard.
- Pay your bills.
- Pay your debts.
- Don't buy things on credit you cannot afford.
- Lay by a nest egg for a rainy day.

Its called being an adult.

As to the original question, I'm totally down with the idea.  Among the costs of credit are the costs of the deadbeats that has to be spread among all the decent people.  Any system that would lock up a car (self driving cars are science fiction, and there is no need for that, just lock it down and send a signal to HQ to come get it) for non-payment, no insurance, no plates, unpaid tolls, unpaid tickets, and such is great, pushing down the costs that decent people have to pay to cover for other people's irresponsible behaviors.

blah blah bootstraps blah blah blah

The sarcastic response here is definitely telling . . .

SP Cook's response was textbook for "boomer tells young people why they are lazy failures who spend all of their time playing fortnite and making tiktoks". Like all of the classics. Like telling people living paycheck to paycheck to save money.

[kalvado]

Honestly, this has me curious if you can somehow modify the car to destroy itself while driving back to the dealership; all you'd have to do is swap a few wires on the motor H-bridge, and suddenly, the car is their problem! "If I can't have this car, nobody else can!" Obviously, you should remove the plates first.

That would quickly escalate to a criminal domain.
Would you also cut brakes lines before regular human repo? Same general idea ...

[GaryV]

What happens when you simply refuse to work? 

Then that makes you smarter than all of these dipshits busting their ass and getting nothing out of it, doesn't it?

Careful, I think you just said MMM is smarter than all those who are working.

[ethanhopkin14]

The car drives away from your house:

Me: "I am not late on any of my payments.  Don't drive off!!"

Car: "I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave."

[kalvado]

What happens when you simply refuse to work? 

Then that makes you smarter than all of these dipshits busting their ass and getting nothing out of it, doesn't it?

Careful, I think you just said MMM is smarter than all those who are working.

Little Johnny was an idiot. For example,  when someone let him grab one coin out of two, say 5c and 10c, he always took a bigger one - 5c.
Once upon a time teacher asked - Johnny, don't you understand that 10 cents is more than 5?  - Sure I do.  - But why do you always take 5 cents?  - Well, because if I take a 10, nobody will try that again. And this way I already made $7 out of it... 

[kphoger]

1.  I'm generally in favor of actual humans making decisions like this.  Just as I generally don't support photo-enforced traffic laws, I don't generally support automatic car repossession.  I'm open to the possibility of situations in which it's acceptable, but my basic position is that humans are better able than machines at being understanding and tolerant, appreciating the bigger picture, and prioritizing.

2.  With that in mind, I might support such a thing if the owner had already been contacted a couple of times but was still in default.  It shouldn't be implemented without any prior contact having been made to try and resolve the default by other means.  It shouldn't be implemented as Plan A.

3.  Having driven into Mexico several times in a vehicle with a lienholder–providing the registration receipt as proof of ownership at the border instead of the title, which was still in the bank's possession–I'm trying to imagine some international scenarios that could end up bad.  For example, if an American drives into Mexico in a vehicle with a lienholder, then sells it illegally for cash down in Mexico, then the new owner in Mexico drives close enough to the US border to ping its location as being in the United States.  An interesting thought experiment.

4.  A better thing might be to engage a speed limiter or transaxle safe mode in the case of default.  Didn't make your last two car loan payments?  Now you can't go faster than second gear.

[kalvado]

1.  I'm generally in favor of actual humans making decisions like this.  Just as I generally don't support photo-enforced traffic laws, I don't generally support automatic car repossession.  I'm open to the possibility of situations in which it's acceptable, but my basic position is that humans are better able than machines at being understanding and tolerant, appreciating the bigger picture, and prioritizing.

2.  With that in mind, I might support such a thing if the owner had already been contacted a couple of times but was still in default.  It shouldn't be implemented without any prior contact having been made to try and resolve the default by other means.  It shouldn't be implemented as Plan A.

3.  Having driven into Mexico several times in a vehicle with a lienholder–providing the registration receipt as proof of ownership at the border instead of the title, which was still in the bank's possession–I'm trying to imagine some international scenarios that could end up bad.  For example, if an American drives into Mexico in a vehicle with a lienholder, then sells it illegally for cash down in Mexico, then the new owner in Mexico drives close enough to the US border to ping its location as being in the United States.  An interesting thought experiment.

4.  A better thing might be to engage a speed limiter or transaxle safe mode in the case of default.  Didn't make your last two car loan payments?  Now you can't go faster than second gear.

3. Don't you need a title to sell a car in Mexico? Registration is definitely not making it within US...

[Roadgeekteen]

What happens when you simply refuse to work? 

Then that makes you smarter than all of these dipshits busting their ass and getting nothing out of it, doesn't it?

Careful, I think you just said MMM is smarter than all those who are working.

MMM is the smartest person on the forum. He's just trolling us.

[kphoger]

1.  I'm generally in favor of actual humans making decisions like this.  Just as I generally don't support photo-enforced traffic laws, I don't generally support automatic car repossession.  I'm open to the possibility of situations in which it's acceptable, but my basic position is that humans are better able than machines at being understanding and tolerant, appreciating the bigger picture, and prioritizing.

2.  With that in mind, I might support such a thing if the owner had already been contacted a couple of times but was still in default.  It shouldn't be implemented without any prior contact having been made to try and resolve the default by other means.  It shouldn't be implemented as Plan A.

3.  Having driven into Mexico several times in a vehicle with a lienholder–providing the registration receipt as proof of ownership at the border instead of the title, which was still in the bank's possession–I'm trying to imagine some international scenarios that could end up bad.  For example, if an American drives into Mexico in a vehicle with a lienholder, then sells it illegally for cash down in Mexico, then the new owner in Mexico drives close enough to the US border to ping its location as being in the United States.  An interesting thought experiment.

4.  A better thing might be to engage a speed limiter or transaxle safe mode in the case of default.  Didn't make your last two car loan payments?  Now you can't go faster than second gear.

3. Don't you need a title to sell a car in Mexico? Registration is definitely not making it within US...

Pertinent part highlighted.  The new owner wouldn't be able to register it, but there are thousands of such vehicles down there, along with unofficial license plates sold by gangs of lawyers.

[kalvado]

1.  I'm generally in favor of actual humans making decisions like this.  Just as I generally don't support photo-enforced traffic laws, I don't generally support automatic car repossession.  I'm open to the possibility of situations in which it's acceptable, but my basic position is that humans are better able than machines at being understanding and tolerant, appreciating the bigger picture, and prioritizing.

2.  With that in mind, I might support such a thing if the owner had already been contacted a couple of times but was still in default.  It shouldn't be implemented without any prior contact having been made to try and resolve the default by other means.  It shouldn't be implemented as Plan A.

3.  Having driven into Mexico several times in a vehicle with a lienholder–providing the registration receipt as proof of ownership at the border instead of the title, which was still in the bank's possession–I'm trying to imagine some international scenarios that could end up bad.  For example, if an American drives into Mexico in a vehicle with a lienholder, then sells it illegally for cash down in Mexico, then the new owner in Mexico drives close enough to the US border to ping its location as being in the United States.  An interesting thought experiment.

4.  A better thing might be to engage a speed limiter or transaxle safe mode in the case of default.  Didn't make your last two car loan payments?  Now you can't go faster than second gear.

3. Don't you need a title to sell a car in Mexico? Registration is definitely not making it within US...

Pertinent part highlighted.  The new owner wouldn't be able to register it, but there are thousands of such vehicles down there, along with unofficial license plates sold by gangs of lawyers.

Honestly speaking, triple illegal action on a car isn't something of too much concern IMHO.  But since you asked...  A more realistic one:
I believe all cars sold in US must have cellular connection in some way anyway? I can see disabling that connection as a part of mexicanizing the car anyway. An interesting question what would happen once new cars wouldn't run without proper connection - like MS Office which needs periodic validations. And that is a more realistic scenario IMHO, as first steps with remote updates and features disabling are already out there. 

[J N Winkler]

I believe all cars sold in US must have cellular connection in some way anyway?

I understand this has been the case since the mid-noughties, as part of a bolt-on to OBD II that is sometimes informally called "OBD III."  This is a large part of the reason I say dystopia is already here.

I can see disabling that connection as a part of mexicanizing the car anyway. An interesting question what would happen once new cars wouldn't run without proper connection - like MS Office which needs periodic validations. And that is a more realistic scenario IMHO, as first steps with remote updates and features disabling are already out there.

There would be efforts to patch the software so that the car continues to run even when it can't phone home successfully.  But this would give the automakers even more of an incentive to encrypt their vehicles' operating software, which in turn raises right-to-repair concerns.  It's a defensive-offensive seesaw.

[kalvado]

I believe all cars sold in US must have cellular connection in some way anyway?

I understand this has been the case since the mid-noughties, as part of a bolt-on to OBD II that is sometimes informally called "OBD III."  This is a large part of the reason I say dystopia is already here.

I can see disabling that connection as a part of mexicanizing the car anyway. An interesting question what would happen once new cars wouldn't run without proper connection - like MS Office which needs periodic validations. And that is a more realistic scenario IMHO, as first steps with remote updates and features disabling are already out there.

There would be efforts to patch the software so that the car continues to run even when it can't phone home successfully.  But this would give the automakers even more of an incentive to encrypt their vehicles' operating software, which in turn raises right-to-repair concerns.  It's a defensive-offensive seesaw.

And don't forget monthly fee for maintenance monitoring you cannot refuse without insurance consequences. Or something along those lines.

[formulanone]

How about a car that drives itself straight back to the dealership when you miss a payment.

That's literally what the patent proposes kind of

I am in full support of this because it would be hilarious.

Don't want robots to steal your car? Pay for it on time.

Until the robots go on strike because they're too busy making terrible art.

[tckma]

SP, again in my view, is much less pro-rich than he is anti-poor.

I am 100% anti being poor.  That is why I W O R K for a living.

I used to be one of those "I don't understand how people can just not pay their bills" people as well.  Then, I got laid off and was un/underemployed for close to six months.  Four years later, and I'm STILL recovering, financially.  I had a rainy day fund and everything.  It isn't always as simple as "work for a living."  Really, it pisses me off that that happened four YEARS ago and the world still hasn't let me recover.  Bottom line: bad things happen to good people, sometimes.

Someone could, theoretically, remove the battery from the car to avoid self-repossession.  And yes, a repo person is not allowed to open a closed garage.  I believe they are allowed to go on private property, but I'm not entirely certain of that.