Indirect control cities

[JakeFromNewEngland]

On the Merritt Parkway/CT 15, at Exit 54 I-95's control city is "New London" instead of New Haven. Yes, I-95 does go through New London but it makes so much more sense to sign "New Haven", a much larger and more recognizable city IMO, then New London which is far off from this part of Connecticut.

Maybe they figure someone bound for New Haven is going to stay on the Merritt/Wilbur Cross, and someone going to I-95 is more likely to be bypassing New Haven.

The thing is, CT 15's northbound control city at this interchange is Hartford. Most guide signs on the Merritt list New Haven so it can get confusing. Plus, CT 15 barely touches New Haven and I-95 has more of a direct connection.

[PHLBOS]

Also, ConnDOT seems to have a habit of signing cities that aren't even close to the highways they are signed on. For example, I-384's eastbound control city is "Providence". In order to get to Providence, you must get onto US 6 or US 44 to get there.

The placement of the Providence on those BGS dates back to when I-384 was originally I-84 and plans were indeed in place to extend it to I-295 in RI.  The US 6 highway from I-295 to I-95 in Providence was also originally planned to be I-84.

Many of those button-copy BGS were likely designed either prior to or just after the original I-84 extension plans were killed off.  While the shields were changed (to I-384) prior to fabrication; ConnDOT probably decided to leave Providence as a destination.

A more reasonable control city would be "Manchester" which is off of I-384 and a smaller ground level sign for travelers heading towards Providence.

Isn't the I-84/I-384 "split" in Manchester?

It is.  Williamantic would be a suitable direct/local destination for I-384 East.

[roadman65]

You know what used to be an indirect control city, is on NJ 35 before the I-195 was completed across the state, the current signs for NJ 138 was empty. It was just green and the signage for NJ 138 was on lgses on the ground.  What was most interesting is the control city for NJ 138 was "The Amboys" which was so bizarre at the time.

Event though both NJ 34 and the GSP led there from the end, both NJ 138 and NJ 34 or GSP both are totally different directions.  Plus NJ 35 itself goes through both Amboys if you head north of that particular interchange.  It was just as strange as "Singac" being used on CR 511 in Parsippany, NJ for the I-287 ramp going NB years ago.

Too bad Steve they updated the signs before you became interested in roads in both your own backyard and down the shore as you would have loved exploiting those bad practices.  However, there is still the one in Oxford Valley, PA with "Trenton"being used to this day for I-95 N Bound from US 1 that many of us still have in that part of the country to be amused by being only a few miles from Downtown Trenton via US 1 itself which is now all freeway.

[Zeffy]

Too bad Steve they updated the signs before you became interested in roads in both your own backyard and down the shore as you would have loved exploiting those bad practices.  However, there is still the one in Oxford Valley, PA with "Trenton"being used to this day for I-95 N Bound from US 1 that many of us still have in that part of the country to be amused by being only a few miles from Downtown Trenton via US 1 itself which is now all freeway.

Found the sign! Here it is. Interestingly, I thought that it signing Trenton for 95 North was because of the toll into Trenton - but I remembered that it seems that people coming from New Jersey have to pay the tolls, while people coming from Pennsylvania don't. Of course, what else do you sign 95 North here as? I guess you could do New York City, but that damn gap makes it so tricky to navigate if you have no idea what you are doing. Theoretically, Trenton has zero Interstates that enter it's city limits, with the only freeways being US 1 and NJ 29 (which is only part freeway), as I-195 and I-295 both stay east enough to qualify them in Hamilton Township. I-95 I believe only enters Ewing in terms of the Trenton suburbs.

[odditude]

at that point, US 1 North's control city is Morrisville, not Trenton.

for the record, other signs for I-95 N in that area vary between Trenton and Princeton as the control city.

[PHLBOS]

Found the sign! Here it is. Interestingly, I thought that it signing Trenton for 95 North was because of the toll into Trenton - but I remembered that it seems that people coming from New Jersey have to pay the tolls, while people coming from Pennsylvania don't. Of course, what else do you sign 95 North here as? I guess you could do New York City, but that damn gap makes it so tricky to navigate if you have no idea what you are doing. Theoretically, Trenton has zero Interstates that enter it's city limits, with the only freeways being US 1 and NJ 29 (which is only part freeway), as I-195 and I-295 both stay east enough to qualify them in Hamilton Township. I-95 I believe only enters Ewing in terms of the Trenton suburbs.

One-way tolls (exiting NJ) for the Delaware River crossings didn't take effect until the early-to-mid 1990s.  Those particular BGS' were erected (late 80s(?)) prior to one-way tolls being implemented.

Until recently, PennDOT used Trenton as a northbound 95 control city all the way up to the state line.  The first exit that's marked for Trenton even today is NJ 29 (Exit 1) just after the Scudder Falls Bridge & I-95 North is signed for New York there.  The change to Princeton from Exits 44 northward on newer signs have only been recent.  The pull-through approach-BGS' for I-95 North at Exit 40 (but not the one at the actual ramp-split) list both Trenton & Princeton destinations.

The recent adoption of Princeton as an I-95 North destination IMHO should've been implemented north of the US 1 (Exits 46A-B) interchange from the get-go...  Somerset Expressway or no Somerset Expressway.

[roadman65]

Actually before the modern sign assemblies were erected in 1990, Yardley was used north of present day US 1 Business near Langhorne.  The control cities for when US 1 Business was US 1 mainline was "Pendell & Trenton" with "Trenton" being on a removable tab on top as PennDOT knew that the current US 1 freeway would eventually be opened at a later date.

The thing is when the US 1 Freeway was completed east of Oxford Valley, PennDOT did not change the signs along I-95 to reflect the realignment until 3 years later when the overhead signs with consistent exit numbers were assigned.   From 1987 to 1990, US 1 Business was I-95 Northbound's first Trenton exit instead of NJ 29 several miles later.  When the signs were modernized, PennDOT was following MUTCD guidelines while forgetting their surroundings.  The same for I-81 N Bound from US 11 & 15 in Enola where "Harrisburg" is used for the ramp entrance signing there at that location.  It might as well be Hazleton as US 11 & 15 run to the west of Harrisburg a few miles to the south of that said interchange.  Anyone along US 11 & 15  heading for Harrisburg would simply cross the Susquehana River at Wormleysburg to go there.  Having Harrisburg at the I-81 and US 11 & 15 interchange does follow MUTCD guidelines correctly to the "T", but it is irrelevant to US 11 & 15 drivers do to its relationship between the points.

Actually, IMO I think that once close enough to a city the next control point should be used.  However not like Kansas with Des Moines being used for I-35 N Bound ramps starting at Olathe, which is still several miles from Kansas City which has not yet been reached.  In I-81 to Harrisburg all places north of PA 581 should be signed as Hazleton as it mainly serves the northern suburbs of Harrisburg between PA 581 and the Susquehana River north of there and many motorists entering I-81at Wertzville and Enola I am sure know where Harrisburg is. Hazleton would be better at all of those.  Also, PA 581 should be signed for Harrisburg coming from the south which it is not.  Only Front Street and Cameron Street exits are signed for Harrisburg coming N Bound from Carlisle at the moment.

[TEG24601]

I-65 North of Indianapolis says "Chicago" which requires no less than two other freeways to accomplish.

[roadman65]

I always liked the fact that the George Washington Bridge is used as a control point on the Cross County Parkway from the SB Hutch near New Rochelle, NY.  Not at all direct, plus I am curious to know how they route you to the GWB once your are on it.

I am guessing that NYSDOT did that one because even thought staying on the Hutch to its end ( or prior to it) to use I-95 SB to it is much more easier, they did it because of the massive traffic snarls on the Cross Bronx Expressway that happen all too often.

[adventurernumber1]

In Chattanooga, TN, on I-75, I-24 is signed for Nashville and Birmingham, and to get to Birmingham to you have to get on I-24 then I-59. It's a short distance from the I-75/I-24 interchange to I-59 but still, indirect control city.

[Kacie Jane]

I-65 North of Indianapolis says "Chicago" which requires no less than two other freeways to accomplish.

It ends at I-90, and intersects I-94, both of which serve Chicago directly. How do you get no less than two?

[pianocello]

I-65 North of Indianapolis says "Chicago" which requires no less than two other freeways to accomplish.

It ends at I-90, and intersects I-94, both of which serve Chicago directly. How do you get no less than two?

From I-65 to the Circle, you'd either have to take the Toll Road/Skyway to the Dan Ryan or the Borman to the Bishop Ford to the Dan Ryan. While this only involves turning onto one interstate, it uses at least two different freeways.

I feel like most traffic on I-65 north of Indy goes past Gary into Chicago. If they don't, they at least make it to Chicagoland, so the control city makes sense.

[TEG24601]

I-65 North of Indianapolis says "Chicago" which requires no less than two other freeways to accomplish.

It ends at I-90, and intersects I-94, both of which serve Chicago directly. How do you get no less than two?

Because you forgot 80.  If you take 94, you are also on 80, then have to exit off of 80 to get to Chicago proper.  Then there is the fiasco with the Skyway.

[The Nature Boy]

I can forgive I-65 since it terminates in the Indiana portion of Chicagoland. It touches the suburbs of Chicago and there's precedent for other interstates to use a control city whose metro area it touches. I-95 has "Boston" as a control city but it never actually goes inside of the city limits.

[Zeffy]

I-95 has "Boston" as a control city but it never actually goes inside of the city limits.

Same with Trenton, despite I-95 going for all intents and purposes nowhere near the actual city of Trenton.

[Kacie Jane]

From I-65 to the Circle, you'd either have to take the Toll Road/Skyway to the Dan Ryan or the Borman to the Bishop Ford to the Dan Ryan. While this only involves turning onto one interstate, it uses at least two different freeways.

I feel like most traffic on I-65 north of Indy goes past Gary into Chicago. If they don't, they at least make it to Chicagoland, so the control city makes sense.

Because you forgot 80.  If you take 94, you are also on 80, then have to exit off of 80 to get to Chicago proper.  Then there is the fiasco with the Skyway.

I can sort of see the point with I-94.  Sort of, but not really.  Surely you're not arguing that it's indirect to sign I-94 as Chicago just because you have to turn off I-80/I-94 to stay on I-94?

But with I-90, regardless of how many names the freeway has, there aren't any TOTSO situations.  You exit I-65 onto I-90 west and *poof* you're there (after however many hours of sitting in traffic).  Direct as can be.

[Arkansastravelguy]

Not sure if this is been said before but driving to NY via 95 I noticed it's very rare to see Philadelphia used as a control city. Always Baltimore/New York or just New York


iPhone

[odditude]

Not sure if this is been said before but driving to NY via 95 I noticed it's very rare to see Philadelphia used as a control city. Always Baltimore/New York or just New York

MdTA has no love for Philly. Bastards.

[roadman65]

I-95 has "Boston" as a control city but it never actually goes inside of the city limits.

Same with Trenton, despite I-95 going for all intents and purposes nowhere near the actual city of Trenton.

Fayetteville, NC is the same way.  Yet you have Lumberton, NC that I-95 goes through and is not used as control points anywhere.  Also Lumberton is now the junction of another interstate so it should be more important than Fayetteville.

Back on topic in Westfield, NJ you have "Shore Points" used on NJ 28 at CR 613.  CR 613 does not go there nor run in the direction of NJ's shore region.  It connects via the Garden State Parkway which incidentally has no signs for it as the GSP does not like to assign control points at all of its ramps.

[mrsman]

In my view, it is better to have an indirect major control city than to have a minor control city that most drivers have never heard of.

So it's completely appropriate to sign I-80 eastbound to NYC, or I-15 southbound (from Las Vegas) into Los Angeles.

[The Nature Boy]

I-95 has "Boston" as a control city but it never actually goes inside of the city limits.

Same with Trenton, despite I-95 going for all intents and purposes nowhere near the actual city of Trenton.

Fayetteville, NC is the same way.  Yet you have Lumberton, NC that I-95 goes through and is not used as control points anywhere.  Also Lumberton is now the junction of another interstate so it should be more important than Fayetteville.

Back on topic in Westfield, NJ you have "Shore Points" used on NJ 28 at CR 613.  CR 613 does not go there nor run in the direction of NJ's shore region.  It connects via the Garden State Parkway which incidentally has no signs for it as the GSP does not like to assign control points at all of its ramps.

I-95 goes inside of Fayetteville VERY briefly so it technically enters the city limits. There's a business loop that spurs off of I-95 that takes you to downtown. Fayetteville is not a good example to use here.

Lumberton falls victim to North Carolina using EVERY hole in the wall small city as a control city. Lumberton is a control city for I-95 between Benson and its actual location but not before. The South Carolina DOT using Fayetteville as their NC based control city on I-95 North between Florence and the border is more problematic.

[PHLBOS]

I-95 has "Boston" as a control city but it never actually goes inside of the city limits.

Same with Trenton, despite I-95 going for all intents and purposes nowhere near the actual city of Trenton.

But there's a historical difference between the two.  I-95 was originally supposed to go through Boston whereas the final agreed-upon alignment of I-95 in the Trenton area even with the originally-planned Somerset Freeway never touches Trenton.

[odditude]

I-95 has "Boston" as a control city but it never actually goes inside of the city limits.

Same with Trenton, despite I-95 going for all intents and purposes nowhere near the actual city of Trenton.

But there's a historical difference between the two.  I-95 was originally supposed to go through Boston whereas the final agreed-upon alignment of I-95 in the Trenton area even with the originally-planned Somerset Freeway never touches Trenton.

95M serves Trenton in the same way that I-76 serves Harrisburg. It's a primary method of getting there, even if it never enters the city limits,

[yakra]

Ft. Smith signed on the Muskogee Turnpike East:
https://maps.google.com/?q=muskogee&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Muskogee,+Muskogee+County,+Oklahoma&ll=35.607068,-95.045471&spn=0.386317,1.234589&t=m&z=10&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=35.727588,-95.310519&panoid=GQEtjACFD3qHLuc2ya4KWA&cbp=11,184.64,,0,-2.6

[Pete from Boston]

I-95 has "Boston" as a control city but it never actually goes inside of the city limits.

Same with Trenton, despite I-95 going for all intents and purposes nowhere near the actual city of Trenton.

That's nothing.  Going east from Hartford, 84 uses "Boston," despite ending 50 miles short of that city.