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Author Topic: I-49 in Arkansas  (Read 702147 times)

M86

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #525 on: November 30, 2013, 03:59:58 AM »

I'm not sure why you say AHTD is miles behind MoDOT, because currently it is MoDOT that is holding up the completion of the Bella Vista Bypass since they lost their funding they promised to Arkansas. Missouri needs to get their house in order, Arkansas is moving forward (despite your comments about Arkansas's "intelligence"...)

Completed as promised!! Not so much, MoDOT...
Seriously?  MoDOT got tired of Arkansas's ridiculous ignorance to the Bella Vista Bypass, whether it be by funding or AHTDs too much focus on the Little Rock region. 
MoDOT sat on the money for the longest time... I don't blame them one bit for transferring the money to the section of US 71 between Joplin and Kansas City.

And AHTD is many miles behind MoDOT, in many ways... Here's a list:

- MoDOTs website... AHTDs is just sad.  Even smaller, less populated states have better DOT websites.
- MoDOTs variable message signs... AHTD has none on I-540 in NWA.  I love MoDOTs messages on them.  It's simple reminders to stay safe, and they'll use them for other issues as well.
- MoDOT completed I-49 between Joplin and KC
- MoDOT highways have wide shoulders (where it needs to be) and roadway lighting (where it should be, for the most part).  AHTD has been improving on the shoulders; I haven't noticed any improvement on the roadway lighting... I will never understand why AHTD is so against providing roadway lighting.
- AHTD loves to lay down a sea of pavement for a 5 lane roadway (Just look at the "Eastern Parkway" in NWA plans).  MoDOT actually uses raised medians and gives a crap about access points.

Did I miss anything?  I'm not even going to go into the funding stuff.  And Dick Trammel needs to go.

I live in Northwest Arkansas.  I have never lived in Missouri.  Just wanted to get that out of the way.


« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 04:03:17 AM by M86 »
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bugo

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #526 on: November 30, 2013, 04:25:39 AM »

I spoke with Scott Bennett, AHTD Director, about this issue directly. He is well aware of the size of the system and says they basically have an informal primary-secondary network internally.
Probably a rough continuation of the old federal aid primary/secondary systems.

Probably not.  AR 8 east of Mena was FAP while AR 8 west of town was FAS, for one example.  Some state highways had FAP and FAS segments and some segments that were neither.  Most US highways were FAP except for where they paralleled an interstate.
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bugo

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #527 on: November 30, 2013, 04:28:39 AM »

They may also be old AR 59 (there was a 59 in southern Arkansas before US 59 was formed).

Where?
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bugo

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #528 on: November 30, 2013, 04:31:48 AM »

AHTD's website has a LOT of useful material.  From historic bridge listings to historical maps to meeting minutes to old copies of Arkansas Highways magazine, the AHTD website is a great resource.
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M86

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #529 on: November 30, 2013, 04:48:31 AM »

AHTD's website has a LOT of useful material.  From historic bridge listings to historical maps to meeting minutes to old copies of Arkansas Highways magazine, the AHTD website is a great resource.
It may be great for a roadgeek interested in historic value... And I am, but it needs more.  I work in IT and AHTDs website needs a huge overhaul, along with ODOTs.  And, now that I look at it, ODOTs website is worse than AHTDs.
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NE2

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #530 on: November 30, 2013, 04:54:00 AM »

I spoke with Scott Bennett, AHTD Director, about this issue directly. He is well aware of the size of the system and says they basically have an informal primary-secondary network internally.
Probably a rough continuation of the old federal aid primary/secondary systems.

Probably not.  AR 8 east of Mena was FAP while AR 8 west of town was FAS, for one example.  Some state highways had FAP and FAS segments and some segments that were neither.  Most US highways were FAP except for where they paralleled an interstate.

What does this have to do with anything? 159 has segments that are relatively major (such as to Louisiana) and chickenshit segments. The former should be maintained to a higher standard than the latter. This may or may not correspond to the FAP/FAS divide (or the FA/non-FA divide).
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bugo

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #531 on: November 30, 2013, 06:59:12 AM »

AHTD's website has a LOT of useful material.  From historic bridge listings to historical maps to meeting minutes to old copies of Arkansas Highways magazine, the AHTD website is a great resource.
It may be great for a roadgeek interested in historic value... And I am, but it needs more.  I work in IT and AHTDs website needs a huge overhaul, along with ODOTs.  And, now that I look at it, ODOTs website is worse than AHTDs.

ODOT's site has plenty of good information as well.  OTA's website kinda sucks though.
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bugo

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #532 on: November 30, 2013, 07:03:12 AM »

I spoke with Scott Bennett, AHTD Director, about this issue directly. He is well aware of the size of the system and says they basically have an informal primary-secondary network internally.
Probably a rough continuation of the old federal aid primary/secondary systems.

Probably not.  AR 8 east of Mena was FAP while AR 8 west of town was FAS, for one example.  Some state highways had FAP and FAS segments and some segments that were neither.  Most US highways were FAP except for where they paralleled an interstate.

What does this have to do with anything? 159 has segments that are relatively major (such as to Louisiana) and chickenshit segments. The former should be maintained to a higher standard than the latter. This may or may not correspond to the FAP/FAS divide (or the FA/non-FA divide).

You said the primary/secondary system coorelated with the old FAP/FAS designation and I said that I didn't think it did.
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NE2

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #533 on: November 30, 2013, 08:13:16 AM »

And then you gave some reasons that don't make sense. 8 west of Mena could be part of the secondary system while east of Mena could be primary. U.S. Highways could be primary except where they parallel an Interstate.
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bugo

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #534 on: November 30, 2013, 09:58:32 AM »

You implied that the secondary system was made up of individual routes, not parts of routes that are partially on the primary system.
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NE2

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #535 on: November 30, 2013, 10:41:09 AM »

I did no such thing.
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #536 on: November 30, 2013, 10:48:38 AM »

Indeed you did.  I said "implied" not "stated".
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US71

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #537 on: November 30, 2013, 10:54:18 AM »

They may also be old AR 59 (there was a 59 in southern Arkansas before US 59 was formed).

Where?

I'll have to go back and verify, but I believe in the Eudora area
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NE2

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #538 on: November 30, 2013, 10:58:09 AM »

Indeed you did.  I said "implied" not "stated".
You're putting implications in my poo.
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #539 on: November 30, 2013, 10:58:54 AM »

I will never understand why AHTD is so against providing roadway lighting.


What's their usual excuse? Money!

They waste it on pet projects, then don't have it for important stuff.
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #540 on: November 30, 2013, 11:00:09 AM »

They may also be old AR 59 (there was a 59 in southern Arkansas before US 59 was formed).

Where?

I'll have to go back and verify, but I believe in the Eudora area
Eudora to Louisiana was 59, renumbered 159 when the deliberately confusing 59 was created in northwest Arkansas. Thanks, AHTD!
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #541 on: November 30, 2013, 11:10:54 AM »

Indeed you did.  I said "implied" not "stated".
You're putting implications in my poo.

Yes you did, Brad, yes you did.
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #542 on: November 30, 2013, 11:12:14 AM »

Why was AR 99 renumbered as AR 43?  (Possibly to match MO 43.)

Why was AR 13 renumbered as AR 81 (and later US 425)?
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #543 on: November 30, 2013, 11:18:15 AM »

Why was AR 99 renumbered as AR 43?  (Possibly to match MO 43.)

Why was AR 13 renumbered as AR 81 (and later US 425)?

Why was AR 47 renumbered as AR 37?  (Possibly to match MO 37?)
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #544 on: November 30, 2013, 11:40:19 AM »

Why was AR 13 renumbered as AR 81 (and later US 425)?
I don't know. That one's fuckin weird, since a new 13 was created north from Carlisle at about the same time (1942-1945).
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #545 on: November 30, 2013, 12:06:31 PM »

Getting back to Bella Vista Bypass, I think AHTD should fund 4 lanes from Missouri line to County Rd. 34 interchange so Missouri will have a better incentive to get voters to pass a bill to finish their part. Missouri has said they want build all 4 lanes to save money. AHTD probably has not thought of it.
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #546 on: November 30, 2013, 03:22:56 PM »

If you promise to meet at the state line and fail to follow through on the promise, that indicates a lack of planning and awareness of the situation across the border. For a state that loves to pimp its follow through (completed as promised!!), MoDOT sure broke a big promise to Arkansas in this instance. I would be embarrassed if I was responsible for dropping the ball in such a manner.

As for the rest of your comments, I have found everything I have ever wanted on AHTD's website. Sure it isn't the world's most user friendly website, but pretty much all the information is there.

I'm glad you like the little reminders to drive safe, but that is a pretty expensive reminder, and I don't blame AHTD one bit for not putting up a sign that says "Look twice for motorcycles" during 90% of its usage. Especially if they funded real safety projects, like cable median barrier, with the savings.

MoDOT's completion of Interstate 49 is not comparable to Arkansas's inability to fund I-49 between Fort Smith and Texarkana, and everyone knows it. Have you ever driven US 71 through the Ouachitas? Its going to be a little more expensive than MoDOT's lay-two-more-lanes-on-flat-prairie.

Also AHTD is implementing access management in Northwest Arkansas, including on Highway 265 and Highway 112 improvement projects. Highway 12 will also likely contain access management.

And so you know, I don't care for much of AHTD's approach, but the avenues you seem to be attacking just simply aren't true.
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #547 on: November 30, 2013, 07:05:43 PM »



MoDOT's completion of Interstate 49 is not comparable to Arkansas's inability to fund I-49 between Fort Smith and Texarkana, and everyone knows it. Have you ever driven US 71 through the Ouachitas? Its going to be a little more expensive than MoDOT's lay-two-more-lanes-on-flat-prairie.





If I may be bold enough to offer a suggestion to the geographic difficulties of building through western Arkansas, why not simply build I-49 from Texarkana to Fort Smith  through eastern Oklahoma and link the new roadway at the southern current end of I-540?  It seems to me to be a way to save money and to build the road quicker (if Oklahoma is amenable to the prospect of the new interstate in their territory).  Oklahoma's hills are smaller and their terrain easier to surmount.  Go west young man...

I also think I-69 should be taken from Houston to Texarkana.  Scrap the I-369 name and remove plans to put the road across southern Arkansas or into Mississippi.  From Little Rock route I-49 over US 67 to Poplar Bluff, joining I-57 at Sikeston.  Once a road is built connecting Marion to Evansville, I-69 outside of Texas would be complete with far fewer bridges, far sooner, and at a huge savings. We already have routes from Mexico to Canada, we just haven't linked them by name and the gaps in them are much easier to close than what the bureaucrats have handed us.  Ease the burden on the citizens of both Mississippi and Arkansas by making a routing change now to save money and use resources more wisely.
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #548 on: November 30, 2013, 07:16:52 PM »

112 improvements? You mean shifting the road near AR 12? I figured most of that was City of Bentonville.

265? How many years did AHTD talk about extending it to Rogers? At least 20, IIRC.

Now we can sit here and play the "blame game" or we can look at creative solutions, such as Louisiana did with unclaimed property.

Both AHTD and MoDOT share some of the blame. Quit pointing fingers and DO something!

---
FWIW, I find MoDOT's "Nag" signs to be a nuisance. I suppose they are good when there's a major traffic slow down or a detour, but I get weary of "Watch for Motorcycles. MODOT Cares" or "Don't Drink and Drive. MODOT Cares" or "Don't Pick Your A$$ While Driving. MODOT cares". :whip:
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #549 on: December 01, 2013, 12:31:10 AM »

My post was an Idea to help Missouri get enough votes in 2014 to pass a tax bill to complete their part of the bella Vista Bypass. I have seen 2 articles, that is what they are looking into. Remember the 2009 Stimulus grant from the federal gov. was the give 5 million to each state for that project. Missouri gave up their part so Arkansas could start. I am from Arkansas and believe it should be working together with Missouri to finish the project. If there belief is to save money by building 4 lanes then Arkansas needs to offer to build 4 lanes to the first interchange so we can support their citizens to vote for money to finish their part. The 1/2 cent Arkansas sales tax was passed and it did not state where the money should be spent. I think that should be a priority road to get finished.
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