US-412 highway upgrades and bypass (a.k.a. AR-612) in NWA: the thread

[Scott5114]

Couldn't they just keep the Cimarron Turnpike Spur OK 312? Given the spur is a connector between US 412 (future Interstate 42) and US 177, the spur doesn't need an Interstate designation.

They could just not use numbers at all, too. Or not build roads to begin with.

I-35 doesn't need an Interstate designation. They could just call it "Earwoo".

[The Ghostbuster]

Maybe an Interstate 342 designation would make more sense if the spur were extended to OK 51, but that is unlikely. And what the hell is an "Earwoo"?

[Scott5114]

Maybe an Interstate 342 designation would make more sense if the spur were extended to OK 51, but that is unlikely. And what the hell is an "Earwoo"?

Why would that make it make any more sense? Either way it's still a freeway spur that connects an Interstate to a city not on an Interstate. It would make more sense as an Interstate spur than I-180 (any of them).

You people make up numbering rules that don't even exist and then get mad when DOTs don't follow them.

An Earwoo is like a Beanwinter, but you couldn't call I-35 that because it's north-south.

[rte66man]

New Interstates can no longer be tolled? Since when?

The OTA may have a green light to sign all of the Cimarron Turnpike as I-42. As far as I can tell they've removed the last bits of narrow grassy median and replaced it with concrete and cable barriers. They've had to do a bit of shoulder work in some spots and replace a couple of bridges. Overall I think that turnpike is ready for the number change.

I wonder if the Cimarron Turnpike Spur is under consideration for an I-x42 designation. The spur has had similar improvements made to it.

I wouldn't expect the Cherokee Turnpike to pick up an I-42 designation anytime soon. It doesn't connect directly with any other existing Interstate highways. US-412 would need to be upgraded to Interstate standards from I-44 in Catoosa over to the West end of the Cherokee Turnpike before the turnpike could be signed as I-42. Or the bypass around Siloam Springs would have to be built and connector made to the East end of the Cherokee Turnpike.

I think I-42 will get signed into Tulsa from the West before the Cherokee Turnpike is able to be signed as I-42. A good bit of work is needed on US-412 from the East end of the Cimarron Turnpike over to Sand Springs. Most of that work is modernizing on/off ramps. Nearly all of that segment of US-412 is existing freeway, except for one at-grade intersection just past the Keystone Dam exit.

That part is on the 8-Year plan for 2030 at a cost of $20 million.

[kphoger]

They could just call it "Earwoo".

I already do.

[Strider]

I wonder what will happen to I-244 when I-42 is signed through Tulsa. Will it be co-signed "I-42/I-244" or...?

[Road Hog]

I stand corrected on the interstate ban on tolled roads then. I was of the understanding that any tolled road not grandfathered-in, like in Oklahoma and several Eastern states, could not get a shield because of federal regulations.

[Bobby5280]

I wonder what will happen to I-244 when I-42 is signed through Tulsa. Will it be co-signed "I-42/I-244" or...?

My guess is I-244 will be shortened so it ends when meeting I-42 in the downtown IDL.

Technically, it could be possible for the I-244 designation to extend farther North along the LL Tisdale Parkway and then go East over the Gilcrease Expressway. But a proper freeway to freeway interchange would be needed at what is currently a traffic signal intersection. And the Gilcrease Expressway would have to be fully completed and brought up to Interstate standards. That would be one way how to get I-244 back close to its parent I-44 route. In that scenario I wouldn't know what to do with numbering the Western half of the Gilcrease Expressway. It's weird as hell for it to have a OK-344 designation while we now have an I-344 in OKC.

Now that I-344 is signed on the Kilpatrick Turnpike in OKC it would seem like I-235 could be extended North from I-44 up to the I-344 interchange.

[The Ghostbuster]

They would have to renumber Interstate 244's exit numbers if they don't go with an Interstate 42/244 duplex. Here in Wisconsin, they maintained the Interstate 894 designation when it became part of an Interstate 43 extension in 1987, and was overlapped in its entirety by the designation of Interstate 41 in 2015.

[Scott5114]

They would have to renumber Interstate 244's exit numbers if they don't go with an Interstate 42/244 duplex.

[laughs in Nevadan] Look upon my local 2di, ye mighty, and despair...

[Great Lakes Roads]

I wonder what will happen to I-244 when I-42 is signed through Tulsa. Will it be co-signed "I-42/I-244" or...?

My guess is I-244 will be shortened so it ends when meeting I-42 in the downtown IDL.

Technically, it could be possible for the I-244 designation to extend farther North along the LL Tisdale Parkway and then go East over the Gilcrease Expressway. But a proper freeway to freeway interchange would be needed at what is currently a traffic signal intersection. And the Gilcrease Expressway would have to be fully completed and brought up to Interstate standards. That would be one way how to get I-244 back close to its parent I-44 route. In that scenario I wouldn't know what to do with numbering the Western half of the Gilcrease Expressway. It's weird as hell for it to have a OK-344 designation while we now have an I-344 in OKC.

Now that I-344 is signed on the Kilpatrick Turnpike in OKC it would seem like I-235 could be extended North from I-44 up to the I-344 interchange.

IIRC from an ODOT commission meeting, I-42 is expected to overlap/run concurrent with both I-244 and I-44 through Tulsa (along with US 412).

[Strider]

I wonder what will happen to I-244 when I-42 is signed through Tulsa. Will it be co-signed "I-42/I-244" or...?

My guess is I-244 will be shortened so it ends when meeting I-42 in the downtown IDL.

Technically, it could be possible for the I-244 designation to extend farther North along the LL Tisdale Parkway and then go East over the Gilcrease Expressway. But a proper freeway to freeway interchange would be needed at what is currently a traffic signal intersection. And the Gilcrease Expressway would have to be fully completed and brought up to Interstate standards. That would be one way how to get I-244 back close to its parent I-44 route. In that scenario I wouldn't know what to do with numbering the Western half of the Gilcrease Expressway. It's weird as hell for it to have a OK-344 designation while we now have an I-344 in OKC.

Now that I-344 is signed on the Kilpatrick Turnpike in OKC it would seem like I-235 could be extended North from I-44 up to the I-344 interchange.

IIRC from an ODOT commission meeting, I-42 is expected to overlap/run concurrent with both I-244 and I-44 through Tulsa (along with US 412).

So, there will be a I-42/I-244 overlap. I know I-42 and I-44 will run together for a few miles. I was more interested in I-244 section and wondered. Thanks for responding!

[ElishaGOtis]

Any more news on if 343 is related to 42 at all? Or if 343 will even be approved by FHWA as a 42 spur?

[ElishaGOtis]

Looks like on Sept 4 they are going to go ahead and sign the completed portion of the Northern bypass as Interstate 42....

Join us at 9 a.m. Friday, September 4, for a ribbon cutting ceremony celebrating completion of two significant transportation projects in Northwest Arkansas – Phase Two of the Springdale Bypass (Interstate 42/Highway 642) and the Northwest Arkansas National Airport (XNA) Connector Road (Highway 642).
See the news release and event map for more information.

Facebook link: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1D6j1LRi4Z/

I've been informed that the I-42 mention in the Facebook post is a reference only and will not be signed upon opening.

[Bobby5280]

I'm wondering who came up with the I-343 thing and what motivated it.

One scenario that sort of makes sense is if a certain politically-connected interest in Tulsa wanted the designation as a way to elevate Tulsa on the map by way of Interstate numbers. It's a number-nerd thing. There is no location in the Interstate Highway System where three sequentially numbered 2-digit routes meet in the same city.

The closest example is O'ahu where I-H1, I-H2 and I-H3 are in close proximity. But that's an island. In the US mainland 48 states there are no examples of 3 sequential numbered routes meeting in the same metro. Tulsa has a shot of doing that with I-44, I-42 and I-43. Hence the choice to give the Muskogee Turnpike a I-343 designation. It would set the stage for US-75 in Tulsa to be renamed as a second I-43 route. It might also set the stage for US-64 between the IDL and I-44 to be modernized so the I-343 number could be extended into downtown Tulsa.

I think certain folks in the Tulsa area have an inferiority complex towards Oklahoma City, given OKC is considered by at least a few people to be a major central point crossroads of the Interstate Highway System, if not THE crossroads of the Interstate Highway System. If Tulsa had Interstates, 42, 43 and 44 crossing through it (and maybe I-45 skirting the Eastern fringes) it might knock OKC down a peg or two.

[TheBox]

Kinda a dumb question, but what the heck's a I-43?

[kphoger]

Kinda a dumb question, but what the heck's a I-43?

It's the name of an Interstate highway that exists only within the state of Wisconsin, which, for some reason, nobody complains about regarding its not really being inter-state in nature—unlike I-45, which people complain about despite its being longer than I-43.

[Razorback19]

Newest post on Facebook from ARDOT says it will sign the 11 miles as I-42

Highway 612, better known as the Springdale Bypass in Northwest Arkansas, is officially becoming Interstate 42 (I-42) — which will better connect Arkansas and Oklahoma.

What does Interstate designation actually mean?

Interstates are the highest order of highway, designed to move people and freight safely and efficiently. For businesses and industries, being located along an interstate can be a major factor for deciding where to grow.

The designation of this 11-mile segment of the Springdale Bypass as I-42 is a step toward a vision that began decades ago: to create an east-west corridor to better move people and goods across the state and beyond.

"It's like we've arrived as a region," Executive Director of the Northwest Arkansas Regional Planning Commission Tim Conklin said.

The Springdale Bypass is a part of something big. Its connections help link communities, support freight movement, and strengthen ties to neighboring states including Oklahoma.

Link: https://fb.watch/JhQCWmEMps/?mibextid=wwXIfr

[The Ghostbuster]

At 11-miles in length, the western Interstate 42 will be slightly shorter than the southern Interstate 87. I predict the Cimarron Turnpike will be the next segment that will become signed as Interstate 42.

[Bobby5280]

I think all the necessary upgrades needed for the Cimarron Turnpike to carry an Interstate number have been completed. I guess it's just a matter of filing the applications to make it happen (if that hasn't been done already).

The Cimarron Turnpike is nearly 60 miles in length. Just signing that segment as I-42 will make the Western version of I-42 instantly longer than what exists in North Carolina. The finished route, spanning from I-35 to I-49 would definitely be longer than the completed NC version and be a real inter-state route rather than an intra-state highway.

Hopefully if the Cimarron Turnpike is signed as I-42 the move will light a fire under some asses in the state government to get things moving on other parts of US-412 so the designation can be extended farther East into and thru Tulsa.

[The Ghostbuster]

If they modified the Diamond Head Dr. to connect with OK 151 instead of US 412, the Interstate 42 designation could go from Interstate 35 to Interstate 244. In any event, Oklahoma should get a move on converting the US 177 and OK 99 interchanges into Interstate Standard diamond interchanges.

[Bobby5280]

If they modified the Diamond Head Dr. to connect with OK 151 instead of US 412, the Interstate 42 designation could go from Interstate 35 to Interstate 244.

ODOT needs to build a new diamond exit for that neighborhood at the Okie Boys Farm. They can't really build it where Diamond Head Drive currently connects at-grade with US-412. That's too close to the US-412/OK-151 trumpet interchange. Serious weaving conflicts would happen. The current at-grade intersection needs to be closed off and a new connection built farther West, closer to the Arkansas River jetty/bridge.

A cheaper solution, but not great for that neighborhood: close off the Diamond Head Drive connection with US-412. Extend that street Eastward and down to the intersection with Two Rivers Trail and West Wekiwa Road.

Aside from the issue of the at-grade intersection of Diamond Head Drive and US-412, there are other problems on the Sand Springs Expressway to remedy. Inside shoulder widths are too narrow in some locations along US-412. On/off ramps are obsolete in design at certain interchanges (Old Keystone Rd, E Leroy Rd, Peninsula Drive, N 129th W Ave, N Wilson Ave). Some bridges need to be replaced due to poor conditions and inadequate shoulder widths. The US-412 main lanes are in bad shape at numerous locations along that stretch. 
 

In any event, Oklahoma should get a move on converting the US 177 and OK 99 interchanges into Interstate Standard diamond interchanges.

Are you talking about the interchanges where those two highways intersect with the Cimarron Turnpike? If so, both of those interchanges were recently re-built completely. They're brand new exits with toll tag readers over the US-412 main lanes both East and West of the interchanges.

[The Ghostbuster]

Will the quadruple cloverleafs allow Interstate 42 to be designated along the corridor? In Kentucky, when the southern portion of the Pennyrile Parkway was designated and later signed as Interstate 169, a quadruple cloverleaf was retained at Exit 11 (KY 1682). Now it looks like Exit 11 is being reconfigured, at least from what I can see on Google Maps Satellite View.

[Bobby5280]

Will the quadruple cloverleafs allow Interstate 42 to be designated along the corridor?

If you're talking about the new US-412 interchanges with US-177 and OK-99, I think that would be a yes. The cloverleaf ramps are separated from the main travel lanes via collector-distributor lanes. That should be good enough to meet current Interstate highway standards.

South of Lawton the Walters Exit on I-44 was re-built in a pretty similar manner.

[MikieTimT]

I drove the backroads crossing the western leg of AR-612, Springdale Northern Bypass, a few days ago.  They have all of the signage, striping, and guardrails completed from what I saw and were just handling the seeding of the dirtwork, although I'm sure no grass will grow until we get rain again.  And I saw the reassurance signage from my vantage point.  It's AR-612, not I-42, for now.  And the speed limit is the same as the current leg of the Springdale Northern Bypass, which is 65MPH.

I'll take some timelapse dashcam video of the entire route in both directions as well as the XNA Connector and post to my YouTube channel and link it here on Friday after the ribbon cutting ceremony.  This should knock about 8-10 minutes off of my trips to XNA from my house, since all I'll have to do is take Harmon Rd. to a short left turn onto US-412 before it's a right turn onto a freeway for the remaining way to the XNA entrance.