Control Cities

[iowahighways]

In my semi-realistic fictional world, I had all of the AotS under US 61, and rerouted it via Rochester, MN, as part of an idea to decommission US 52 northwest of Illinois. The exit numbers on the AotS in Iowa are a mess as well from looking at the wikipedia exits list (new thread topic?). It starts off normally, then resets to 0 after I-80 (why?), jumps to the 230s in Waterloo (When did US 20 get involved here?, thought the AotS goes straight through Waterloo on US 218), then goes back to its own mileposts again, starts a gradual decrease from exit 220 when US 18 concurrency starts to exit 178, then increases again on I-35.

That's because the exit numbering along the Avenue of the Saints predates the IA 27 designation. IA 27 signs began appearing in September 2001 after a majority of the AOTS was already completed, so exit numbering uses the mileage of the existing Interstate and US highways.

As for the control cities, the use of Mount Pleasant at I-80 and US 218 predates the four-laning of the latter. Mount Pleasant may only have about 8,000 people but it is where the AOTS intersects the four-lane US 34.

[roadman65]

I think the entire county of St Charles is useless on I-270 near St Louis for MO 370. Should be Wentzville or Columbia.

[SkyPesos]

I think the entire county of St Charles is useless on I-270 near St Louis for MO 370. Should be Wentzville or Columbia.

MO 370 is one of those routes that imo can do without a control city. Like for the western termius of MO 370, there isn't a control city for MO 370 on the BGS on I-70, so why does the eastern end need one?

[OldDominion75]

The Office of Management and Budget is considering increasing the threshold for a metropolitan area from 50,000 to 100,000. It would be interesting to see how this would be reflected on signs across the USA if this happens.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/01/19/2021-00988/recommendations-from-the-metropolitan-and-micropolitan-statistical-area-standards-review-committee

I wonder if the signs for 95 southbound in Richmond down to the NC line will change from "Rocky Mount NC"  to "Emporia"  and later "Roanoke Rapids"  as a result of this new system if it is implemented. Honestly that would be fine as I don't think the typical BosWash traveler has any familiarity with Rocky Mount other than it being signed so much in the area. Fayetteville is another possibility but it's rather far away and not that major of a city. Maybe they should just use "Miami"  on 95 South signing. I'm kidding.

[hotdogPi]

Rocky Mount is larger than Roanoke Rapids.

[Rothman]

The Office of Management and Budget is considering increasing the threshold for a metropolitan area from 50,000 to 100,000. It would be interesting to see how this would be reflected on signs across the USA if this happens.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/01/19/2021-00988/recommendations-from-the-metropolitan-and-micropolitan-statistical-area-standards-review-committee

I wonder if the signs for 95 southbound in Richmond down to the NC line will change from "Rocky Mount NC"  to "Emporia"  and later "Roanoke Rapids"  as a result of this new system if it is implemented. Honestly that would be fine as I don't think the typical BosWash traveler has any familiarity with Rocky Mount other than it being signed so much in the area. Fayetteville is another possibility but it's rather far away and not that major of a city. Maybe they should just use "Miami"  on 95 South signing. I'm kidding.

It will not make a difference.

Moreover, I do wonder if these proposals (including the one where metro areas would be based upon density -- through Census and possibly FHWA) will actually come to fruition.  Seems it wouldn't make anyone happy -- smaller cities like Ithaca, NY feeling like they'll lose their MPO or larger, less dense cities of the South and West being cut down to size.  That's a lot of political opposition on both sides of the spectrum.

[Roadgeekteen]

The Office of Management and Budget is considering increasing the threshold for a metropolitan area from 50,000 to 100,000. It would be interesting to see how this would be reflected on signs across the USA if this happens.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/01/19/2021-00988/recommendations-from-the-metropolitan-and-micropolitan-statistical-area-standards-review-committee

I wonder if the signs for 95 southbound in Richmond down to the NC line will change from "Rocky Mount NC"  to "Emporia"  and later "Roanoke Rapids"  as a result of this new system if it is implemented. Honestly that would be fine as I don't think the typical BosWash traveler has any familiarity with Rocky Mount other than it being signed so much in the area. Fayetteville is another possibility but it's rather far away and not that major of a city. Maybe they should just use "Miami"  on 95 South signing. I'm kidding.

I doubt states are going to change their signs just based on this.

[Big John]

I am confused.  For example Wisconsin Dells is a control city with a population just under 3000.  I think other factors such as it being a tourist attraction can make it a control city.

[thspfc]

I am confused.  For example Wisconsin Dells is a control city with a population just under 3000.  I think other factors such as it being a tourist attraction can make it a control city.

Wisconsin Dells deserves to be a control city because it's both a major tourist destination, and a significant waypoint within the state. If I'm driving through Wisconsin on I-90 or I-94, Wisconsin Dells is one of a handful of such markers. For I-90 that would be La Crosse, Tomah/the I-94 merge, Wisconsin Dells, Madison, and the Illinois border. For I-94 that would be the Minnesota border, Eau Claire, Wisconsin Dells, Madison, Milwaukee, and the Illinois border.

[roadman65]

Fort Chiswell, VA is one NC uses and is that a major city?

Then Benson for I-95 now since I-40 got built. That is not that huge.

Oh yes and Bear Mountain, NY for US 6 and the Palisades Parkway. No population there except the tourists.

[hbelkins]

Fort Chiswell, VA is one NC uses and is that a major city?

It's a major intersection of two interstates -- not dissimilar to Wytheville being used on southbound I-77. Although I can't recall ever having seen Ft. Chiswell being used except on NC 89 at the I-77 interchange. I-74 traffic uses Wytheville.

[FrCorySticha]

I'd be surprised if most western states would care about the change from 50K for a metro area to 100K, at least as far as road signage is concerned. Looking here in Montana, only Missoula and Billings have large enough populations within their metropolitan areas to reach 100K. Two more, Kalispell and Bozeman are over 90K, and Great Falls and Helena are both around 80K. All these cities are used as control cities within the state, as well as Butte which only has 35K in its metropolitan area. With 100K+ restriction, control cities on I-15 in Montana would have Idaho Falls for southbound and Canada (or Calgary) for northbound. Can't imagine the state would look too friendly on that idea.

I'm sure Wyoming, Idaho, and the Dakotas are in similar situations. Most of what the extreme rural states consider "big cities" are generally considered small towns and barely cities in more populated states.

[Roadgeekteen]

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4246381,-76.5243973,3a,75y,82.27h,93.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9onKqhat9nt0TJjlg8XfeA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Hazelton is used here, Scranton should be used.

[Rothman]

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4246381,-76.5243973,3a,75y,82.27h,93.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9onKqhat9nt0TJjlg8XfeA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Hazelton is used here, Scranton should be used.

Six in one, half a dozen in the other.

[Roadgeekteen]

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4246381,-76.5243973,3a,75y,82.27h,93.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9onKqhat9nt0TJjlg8XfeA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Hazelton is used here, Scranton should be used.

Six in one, half a dozen in the other.

What

[Rothman]

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4246381,-76.5243973,3a,75y,82.27h,93.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9onKqhat9nt0TJjlg8XfeA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Hazelton is used here, Scranton should be used.

Six in one, half a dozen in the other.

What

Either one is fine.

[Occidental Tourist]

Six of one, half a dozen of the other

[Rothman]

Six of one, half a dozen of the other

Exactly.  Six in one, half a dozen in the other.

[Roadgeekteen]

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4246381,-76.5243973,3a,75y,82.27h,93.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9onKqhat9nt0TJjlg8XfeA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Hazelton is used here, Scranton should be used.

Six in one, half a dozen in the other.

What

Either one is fine.

Scranton is much bigger and more notable.

[Rothman]

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4246381,-76.5243973,3a,75y,82.27h,93.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9onKqhat9nt0TJjlg8XfeA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Hazelton is used here, Scranton should be used.

Six in one, half a dozen in the other.

What

Either one is fine.

Scranton is much bigger and more notable.

So?  Hazleton is where I-81 and I-80 meet.

Either one works.

[SkyPesos]

That's like using Vandalia instead of Dayton on I-75, only because it meets I-70 at the former city.

[Roadgeekteen]

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4246381,-76.5243973,3a,75y,82.27h,93.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9onKqhat9nt0TJjlg8XfeA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Hazelton is used here, Scranton should be used.

Six in one, half a dozen in the other.

What

Either one is fine.

Scranton is much bigger and more notable.

So?  Hazleton is where I-81 and I-80 meet.

Either one works.

Junction cities should only be used when there is no better option.

[Rothman]

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4246381,-76.5243973,3a,75y,82.27h,93.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9onKqhat9nt0TJjlg8XfeA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Hazelton is used here, Scranton should be used.

Six in one, half a dozen in the other.

What

Either one is fine.

Scranton is much bigger and more notable.

So?  Hazleton is where I-81 and I-80 meet.

Either one works.

Junction cities should only be used when there is no better option.

*shrug*

No biggie either way.  I don't see any consequences of having Hazleton as the control city.

[snowc]

Rocky Mount is larger than Roanoke Rapids.

Agreed.

[jmacswimmer]

*shrug*

No biggie either way.  I don't see any consequences of having Hazleton as the control city.

I don't have any issue with Hazleton on I-81 (and FWIW, there is a mileage sign just north of I-78 listing Wilkes-Barre & Scranton), but what I do find odd is I-80 east using Hazleton at the I-81 interchange.