Control Cities

[Scott5114]

Also, possible confusion factor: "Springdale" might be confused for "Springfield", which is the control city on I-44 EB after Joplin (which is the I-44 EB control in Tulsa). Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean that Siloam Springs has to be used, "Fayetteville" would convey the same thing as Springdale at the slight drawback of being slightly inaccurate.

What about "Northwest Arkansas" or is that too vague?

While that would be accurate and probably understood by most people, I'm personally not a fan of using "control states", and it's not something I've ever seen done in Oklahoma.

I suppose any "Springdale"/"Springfield" confusion could be mitigated somewhat by signing I-46 (or whatever) as "Springdale AR" and I-44 as "Joplin/Springfield MO".

Is saying sign Wichita for the interstate westbound out of Tulsa too much?

It's the next major city on the interstate system, and most traffic on US-412 West would merge onto I-35 North, and vice versa, at least staying within the system.

Wichita does make some degree of sense since this is part of the shortest route between Tulsa and Wichita. However, it's somewhat telling that OTA doesn't already do this. The AADT maps around the I-35/US-412 interchange are somewhat inscrutable because there is actually more traffic on US-64/412 west of I-35 than there is on the turnpike east of I-35. I would guess that of traffic going west from Tulsa, 1/3 is headed to Enid or points west, 1/3 to Stillwater, and 1/3 to other destinations like Wichita. Dual-signing "Enid/Wichita" might be the most practical option that reflects something close to the actual destination of the most people.

[bluecountry]

Right, that should be Concord, NH.

No, it should be Worcester.

No, Worcester is west.

[Roadgeekteen]

Right, that should be Concord, NH.

No, it should be Worcester.

No, Worcester is west.

No, on I-495 north at the I-95 interchange. Concord makes little sense.

[Flint1979]

Right, that should be Concord, NH.

No, it should be Worcester.

It is Worcester for NB and Cape Cod for SB.

[Roadgeekteen]

Right, that should be Concord, NH.

No, it should be Worcester.

It is Worcester for NB and Cape Cod for SB.

They do, he's suggesting that it should be changed to Concord NH.

[hotdogPi]

Lowell is larger, closer, and actually on I-495.

[Roadgeekteen]

Lowell is larger, closer, and actually on I-495.

Only problem is...

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.0226805,-71.2621384/Lowell,+MA/@42.3135667,-71.447416,10z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x89e3a449e22c4d3f:0xdde5f57e7f52966b!2m2!1d-71.3161718!2d42.6334247!3e0

[hotdogPi]

Lowell is larger, closer, and actually on I-495.

Only problem is...

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.0226805,-71.2621384/Lowell,+MA/@42.3135667,-71.447416,10z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x89e3a449e22c4d3f:0xdde5f57e7f52966b!2m2!1d-71.3161718!2d42.6334247!3e0

If I-95 is faster (and it's actually showing I-495 faster right now because of traffic) it just switched back, I-95 is also faster to Manchester and Concord.

[Roadgeekteen]

Lowell is larger, closer, and actually on I-495.

Only problem is...

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.0226805,-71.2621384/Lowell,+MA/@42.3135667,-71.447416,10z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x89e3a449e22c4d3f:0xdde5f57e7f52966b!2m2!1d-71.3161718!2d42.6334247!3e0

If I-95 is faster (and it's actually showing I-495 faster right now because of traffic) it just switched back, I-95 is also faster to Manchester and Concord.

This is why Worcester makes the most sense. Control cities should never suggest a slower route.

[Flint1979]

Lowell is larger, closer, and actually on I-495.

Only problem is...

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.0226805,-71.2621384/Lowell,+MA/@42.3135667,-71.447416,10z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x89e3a449e22c4d3f:0xdde5f57e7f52966b!2m2!1d-71.3161718!2d42.6334247!3e0

That doesn't seem like much of a problem. It's 8 miles further taking I-495 but I-495 actually goes through Lowell. And with traffic conditions right now it's only a minute longer.

[Roadgeekteen]

Lowell is larger, closer, and actually on I-495.

Only problem is...

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.0226805,-71.2621384/Lowell,+MA/@42.3135667,-71.447416,10z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x89e3a449e22c4d3f:0xdde5f57e7f52966b!2m2!1d-71.3161718!2d42.6334247!3e0

That doesn't seem like much of a problem. It's 8 miles further taking I-495 but I-495 actually goes through Lowell. And with traffic conditions right now it's only a minute longer.

I still feel like Worcester is the best option.

[Flint1979]

Right now the only traffic problems in the Boston area that I'm seeing are on I-93 south of downtown Boston and on Route 3 between Braintree and Plymouth. I can imagine there are plenty of times where I-495 would be the quickest way to get between Mansfield and Lowell but with no traffic really (it's a Sunday on a holiday weekend) it's quicker to take the shorter route.

[Flint1979]

Lowell is larger, closer, and actually on I-495.

Only problem is...

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.0226805,-71.2621384/Lowell,+MA/@42.3135667,-71.447416,10z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x89e3a449e22c4d3f:0xdde5f57e7f52966b!2m2!1d-71.3161718!2d42.6334247!3e0

That doesn't seem like much of a problem. It's 8 miles further taking I-495 but I-495 actually goes through Lowell. And with traffic conditions right now it's only a minute longer.

I still feel like Worcester is the best option.

I think it should be Lawrence or Haverhill.

[Roadgeekteen]

Right now the only traffic problems in the Boston area that I'm seeing are on I-93 south of downtown Boston and on Route 3 between Braintree and Plymouth. I can imagine there are plenty of times where I-495 would be the quickest way to get between Mansfield and Lowell but with no traffic really (it's a Sunday on a holiday weekend) it's quicker to take the shorter route.

I honestly don't really see that ramp being used that much, but I might be wrong. The fastest route from Providence to Worcester is MA 146.

[Flint1979]

I see it as people bypassing Boston not people going to Worcester. Worcester isn't really connected to I-495 that well either.

If someone is going from Providence to Worcester or vice versa they'll take Route 146. I can see people wanting to bypass Boston if they are going from say Attleboro to Lowell. I-495 gets you about 30 miles away from downtown Boston where I-95/Route 128 only get you about 10 miles away from it. Btw I loved my hotel room in Boston I stayed at the Sheraton on top of the MassPike.

[Roadgeekteen]

I see it as people bypassing Boston not people going to Worcester. Worcester isn't really connected to I-495 that well either.

If someone is going from Providence to Worcester or vice versa they'll take Route 146. I can see people wanting to bypass Boston if they are going from say Attleboro to Lowell. I-495 gets you about 30 miles away from downtown Boston where I-95/Route 128 only get you about 10 miles away from it. Btw I loved my hotel room in Boston I stayed at the Sheraton on top of the MassPike.

Valid. Honestly not sure what I would sign now.

[sprjus4]

Lowell is larger, closer, and actually on I-495.

Only problem is...

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.0226805,-71.2621384/Lowell,+MA/@42.3135667,-71.447416,10z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x89e3a449e22c4d3f:0xdde5f57e7f52966b!2m2!1d-71.3161718!2d42.6334247!3e0

Okay, and? I-295 around Richmond-Petersburg is signed for Washington and Rocky Mount, NC even though the most direct route is through the cities on I-95.

I-485 around Charlotte is signed for Huntersville and Pineville (suburbs on either side of the Beltway - used to have long distance control cities like Columbia, but I guess NCDOT deemed local interests more important) even though it's more direct to follow I-77 through Charlotte.

I-840 around Nashville is signed for Knoxville and Memphis even though it's more direct (like 25 less miles!) to follow I-40 through Nashville.

Of course, there's counter examples. But it's not unprecedented to sign a long distance control on a slightly longer route to encourage traffic to bypass.

[SkyPesos]

Beltways are most of the time longer than the route they're bypassing with the same control cities. Like I-270 uses Memphis and Chicago as control cities on the west side of St Louis, though I doubt anyone would use I-270 over I-55 or I-255 through St Louis.

[Roadgeekteen]

Lowell is larger, closer, and actually on I-495.

Only problem is...

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.0226805,-71.2621384/Lowell,+MA/@42.3135667,-71.447416,10z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x89e3a449e22c4d3f:0xdde5f57e7f52966b!2m2!1d-71.3161718!2d42.6334247!3e0

Okay, and? I-295 around Richmond-Petersburg is signed for Washington and Rocky Mount, NC even though the most direct route is through the cities on I-95.

I-485 around Charlotte is signed for Huntersville and Pineville (suburbs on either side of the Beltway - used to have long distance control cities like Columbia, but I guess NCDOT deemed local interests more important) even though it's more direct to follow I-77 through Charlotte.

I-840 around Nashville is signed for Knoxville and Memphis even though it's more direct (like 25 less miles!) to follow I-40 through Nashville.

Of course, there's counter examples. But it's not unprecedented to sign a long distance control on a slightly longer route to encourage traffic to bypass.

For I-295 in Richmond both routes take the same amount of time.

[Scott5114]

Beltways are most of the time longer than the route they're bypassing with the same control cities. Like I-270 uses Memphis and Chicago as control cities on the west side of St Louis, though I doubt anyone would use I-270 over I-55 or I-255 through St Louis.

I actually did I-270 the first time I bypassed St Louis, cause I assumed the I-270 control of "Chicago" would point me down the shortest route to Chicago. (You can actually see me griping about it right after it happened on the first few pages of this ancient thread.)

[sprjus4]

Beltways are most of the time longer than the route they're bypassing with the same control cities. Like I-270 uses Memphis and Chicago as control cities on the west side of St Louis, though I doubt anyone would use I-270 over I-55 or I-255 through St Louis.

From I-44 maybe, but on I-55, Memphis and Chicago are used on I-255, not I-270.

[ilpt4u]

Beltways are most of the time longer than the route they're bypassing with the same control cities. Like I-270 uses Memphis and Chicago as control cities on the west side of St Louis, though I doubt anyone would use I-270 over I-55 or I-255 through St Louis.

From I-44 maybe, but on I-55, Memphis and Chicago are used on I-255, not I-270.

From I-55 in MO, I-255 North/East/Outer is signed Chicago, and I-270 North/West/Inner is signed Kansas City

From I-44, I-270 North/Inner is signed Chicago, and I-270 South/East/Outer is signed Memphis.

The worst bit about the Controls for I-270 at I-44, is using I-270 South/East to I-255 East/North for the Southeast/Outer bypass of STL is the shorter route back to the I-55/70/270 interchange in Troy, IL (and therefore onto Chicago) than using I-270 North/East for the Northwest/Inner bypass, and the Southeast bypass typically has less traffic, as well

About the only time I would consider using I-270 North/East for Chicago on the west side of St Louis is if I'm near the Airport/I-70 area already. I would probably (and have before) use I-270 between the STL Airport area and Troy, IL instead of using I-70 thru Downtown, to continue on either I-55 North/Chicago or I-70 East/Indianapolis. I would continue on I-70 East thru Downtown if continuing on I-64 East/Louisville

[Roadgeekteen]

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7115234,-78.1862088,3a,75y,336.29h,93.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s431Lryya5mVr8ZNMEnZNdQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Pittsburgh should be used instead of Breezwood.

[ilpt4u]

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7115234,-78.1862088,3a,75y,336.29h,93.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s431Lryya5mVr8ZNMEnZNdQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Pittsburgh should be used instead of Breezwood.

I hate that Breezewood is acknowledged as a Control here

But in its defense, it is where this particular segment of I-70 does 2 things until reaching Breezewood:
1) Between the I-68 and PA Turnpike junctions, I-70 takes a mostly N-S routing and resumes E-W after
2) Obviously I-70 joins the PA Turnpike and becomes a Toll Road

Is the change in direction of travel and Toll status enough to justify a Control designation? Possibly

[roadman65]

Breezewood like it or not makes sense cause it meets the Turnpike there.

A lot better sense than Milford for I-84 East of Scranton does.