No more new pennies

[Road Hog]

I can see pennies as being not worth stamping, but the U.S. government is not in the business of turning a profit. In the absence of pennies, nickels will suffice and the U.S. Treasury can more than cover the leading loss with other denominations.

[kphoger]

Getting rid of $1 bills should be next.

This would be illegal—the company that makes the bill paper got their Senator to pass a law that prohibits the government from changing the $1 bill in any way. (This is why its design doesn't match the other denominations.)

The bill (888-page .pdf warning) only prohibits redesigning the dollar bill.  It doesn't say they can't stop printing them or remove them from circulation.

Public Law 114-113 — 114th Congress

Division E — Financial Services and General Government Appropriations Act, 2016

Title I — Department of the Treasury

Administrative Provisions — Department of the Treasury

Sec. 117 — None of the funds appropriated in this Act or otherwise available to the Department of the Treasury or the Bureau of Engraving and Printing may be used to redesign the $1 Federal Reserve note.

The law in question far predates that—it was passed during the early 2000s in response to the Sacajawea dollar. (I've dug it up once before, but it was long enough ago I can't quote chapter and verse.)

Forgive my skepticism, but I'll believe it when I see evidence.

https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF11414
As official as it gets



Dollar Note Redesign Prohibition

In many appropriations laws, Congress has included a provision that prohibits the Department of the Treasury or the BEP from redesigning the $1 note. For example, the most recent inclusion of this provision was in P.L. 117-328 (Div. E, Title I, §116), the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2023. It said "None of the funds appropriated in this Act or otherwise available to the Department of the Treasury or the Bureau of Engraving and Printing may be used to redesign the $1 Federal Reserve note."

As I said, what I was questioning is that it's illegal to get rid of them.  I'm not questioning that it's illegal to redesign them, as I had already cited one such prohibition.

[kphoger]

The idea of profit makes no sense to me. They aren't selling the nickels. They are using them in transactions, which could happen hundreds of times during their lifetime.

They're all but useless for transactions, though.  I would not give one fuck if every transaction from this point forward were rounded to the nearest 10¢ (or 25¢, for that matter), and I doubt it would make any difference to anyone else either.

[1995hoo]

Regarding the issue of redesign versus phase-out, I read somewhere that in addition to that statutory provision cited above, the other consideration with redesigning the $1 and the $2 is that apparently the evidence shows that neither one is counterfeited enough to make it worth the effort of redesigning them to add more security features.

[kalvado]

Regarding the issue of redesign versus phase-out, I read somewhere that in addition to that statutory provision cited above, the other consideration with redesigning the $1 and the $2 is that apparently the evidence shows that neither one is counterfeited enough to make it worth the effort of redesigning them to add more security features.

How about maintaining single style across the currency set?
Or transitioning from paper to longer lifetime plastic?

[SEWIGuy]

The idea of profit makes no sense to me. They aren't selling the nickels. They are using them in transactions, which could happen hundreds of times during their lifetime.

They're all but useless for transactions, though.  I would not give one fuck if every transaction from this point forward were rounded to the nearest 10¢ (or 25¢, for that matter), and I doubt it would make any difference to anyone else either.

That's fine by me. I just don't think that the idea that a coin costs more to create than its value should have any bearing on that decision.

[kalvado]

The idea of profit makes no sense to me. They aren't selling the nickels. They are using them in transactions, which could happen hundreds of times during their lifetime.

They're all but useless for transactions, though.  I would not give one fuck if every transaction from this point forward were rounded to the nearest 10¢ (or 25¢, for that matter), and I doubt it would make any difference to anyone else either.

That's fine by me. I just don't think that the idea that a coin costs more to create than its value should have any bearing on that decision.

You can look at it as cost-benefit thing, on a large scale it's about spending money on something providing little benefit.
On the next level, it's illegal to process US coins as scrap metal. Apparently a few people in this thread still look at that as a reality. While new zinc cents melt value of 0.7c is is still less than 1 cent, metal prices tend to go up. 5 cent melt value is about 5.7c
So at some point mint pays 7 cents to make something people buy for 5 cents and destroy to get 6....

[DTComposer]

https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF11414
As official as it gets

Dollar Note Redesign Prohibition

In many appropriations laws, Congress has included a provision that prohibits the Department of the Treasury or the BEP from redesigning the $1 note. For example, the most recent inclusion of this provision was in P.L. 117-328 (Div. E, Title I, §116), the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2023. It said "None of the funds appropriated in this Act or otherwise available to the Department of the Treasury or the Bureau of Engraving and Printing may be used to redesign the $1 Federal Reserve note."

So if someone donated their time and talent to redesign the bill, you could circumvent this?

[kphoger]

So if someone donated their time and talent to redesign the bill, you could circumvent this?

Heck, are there funds out there that aren't part of the appropriations act?

[kphoger]

I wonder if they'll end up having to mint extra nickels to make up for the stoppage of penny production.

[kphoger]

I just don't think that the idea that a coin costs more to create than its value should have any bearing on that decision.

In antiquity, coins were worth their weight in the precious metal they were made of.  This means it cost more to produce them than they were worth:  the metal itself + the cost of production.

[JayhawkCO]

I can see pennies as being not worth stamping, but the U.S. government is not in the business of turning a profit. In the absence of pennies, nickels will suffice and the U.S. Treasury can more than cover the leading loss with other denominations.

Trying to make this as apolitical as possible, but the current administration seemingly thinks that the government should be run like a business, hence all the DOGE cuts to "unprofitable" programs. Understanding that the government is here to support us and give us benefits rather than being in the black is not a strong suit of our current leadership.

[kphoger]

In the absence of pennies, nickels will suffice and the U.S. Treasury can more than cover the leading loss with other denominations.

How do you figure, considering nickels cost almost as much to mint as quarters?

Well, actually, I think you meant that they can still make a 'profit' on all coins overall.  But they already do that, with or without the penny.

[kalvado]

In the absence of pennies, nickels will suffice and the U.S. Treasury can more than cover the leading loss with other denominations.

How do you figure, considering nickels cost almost as much to mint as quarters?

Well, actually, I think you meant that they can still make a 'profit' on all coins overall.  But they already do that, with or without the penny.

So about 45 pennies made per person over 3 years, and 12 quarters over 3 years.
I don't know about your experience, but I do use quarters once in a while; I also save one or two of each new design I see. Pennies... maybe
Number-wise, it looks to me as if quarters and dimes are actually getting used, while pennies disappear into some void.

[hotdogPi]

Wait, are 2024 nickels the next 2009?

[kalvado]

I can see pennies as being not worth stamping, but the U.S. government is not in the business of turning a profit. In the absence of pennies, nickels will suffice and the U.S. Treasury can more than cover the leading loss with other denominations.

Trying to make this as apolitical as possible, but the current administration seemingly thinks that the government should be run like a business, hence all the DOGE cuts to "unprofitable" programs. Understanding that the government is here to support us and give us benefits rather than being in the black is not a strong suit of our current leadership.

Trying to keep is as apolitical as well.. producing pennies and nickels did cost you, as an american taxpayer, about $2 over 3 years. That is in addition to transporting and counting costs - which actually come back to you via merchants and banks paying for that. Definitely not a deal breaker, but that may get one extra street per town paved every year.. 

[kphoger]

Number-wise, it looks to me as if quarters and dimes are actually getting used, while pennies disappear into some void the Coinstar machine.

FTFY

[kphoger]

Understanding that the government is here to support us and give us benefits rather than being in the black is not a strong suit of our current leadership.

But pennies, and honestly probably nickels and dimes too, don't really provide any real support or benefit to us.  As functioning currency to facilitate the exchange of goods, they are more of an annoyance and a hinderance than they are a useful tool.

[kalvado]

Number-wise, it looks to me as if quarters and dimes are actually getting used, while pennies disappear into some void the Coinstar machine.

FTFY

Nope. Coinstar happily returns those pennies back into circulation, no need to make any replacement. I saw a guy using a trash can in leu of coinstar for pennies though...  Alternatively, we can think about people hoarding 10-20 pennies a year into a never-emptying piggy-can. No real loss for most if those pennies are never given away in the first place. 

[kphoger]

Number-wise, it looks to me as if quarters and dimes are actually getting used, while pennies disappear into some void [the Coinstar machine] an old Culligan water jug in the garage.

FTFY

Better?

[kphoger]

No real loss for most if those pennies are never given away in the first place.

Exactly.  If I'm paying cash for something, then the only reason I'll reach for pennies instead of the next highest denomination is so that I can get rid of the pennies (which doesn't even work for all prices).

[hotdogPi]

I worked at Stop & Shop from June 2018 to February 2020, which had a CoinStar. Some people would throw their rejected coins in the nearby trash can, which was fairly safe to dig through because it was mainly lottery tickets and containers. In addition to the expected damaged coins, coins stuck together, and foreign coins, there were many silver dimes (a few Canadian) and a few silver quarters. There was even one time I found an 1875 British threepence and was able to show it to the manager who saw me looking through the trash so I could explain that doing so is worthwhile. (Some managers allowed it, while others didn't. It depended on who was there that day.)

[JayhawkCO]

Understanding that the government is here to support us and give us benefits rather than being in the black is not a strong suit of our current leadership.

But pennies, and honestly probably nickels and dimes too, don't really provide any real support or benefit to us.  As functioning currency to facilitate the exchange of goods, they are more of an annoyance and a hinderance than they are a useful tool.

Oh for sure. I'm completely down with rounding everything to the closest quarter. I was just responding to the quote I referenced.

[1995hoo]

I worked at Stop & Shop from June 2018 to February 2020, which had a CoinStar. Some people would throw their rejected coins in the nearby trash can, which was fairly safe to dig through because it was mainly lottery tickets and containers. In addition to the expected damaged coins, coins stuck together, and foreign coins, there were many silver dimes (a few Canadian) and a few silver quarters. There was even one time I found an 1875 British threepence and was able to show it to the manager who saw me looking through the trash so I could explain that doing so is worthwhile. (Some managers allowed it, while others didn't. It depended on who was there that day.)

That sort of thing is one reason why I often pick up coins I see on the ground as long as I'm not somewhere where it would be unsafe or too disruptive to do so (e.g., the passageway at Penn Station in New York from the 7th Avenue subway to the new Moynihan Train Hall is just plain too busy). I've found some interesting foreign coins on the sidewalk over the years.

The Coinstar machines generally take Canadian pennies but not other Canadian coins. I think their quarter is noticeably lighter than ours and very slightly smaller, for example (same for their dime).

[mgk920]

Canadian nickels, dimes and quarters are also ferro-magnetic - attracted to magnets.  (Note, a few varieties of Canadian nickels are not.)

Mike