No more new pennies

[kphoger]

Fun fact - government already tells you how to do things.

Fun fact - business owners already know that.  That doesn't mean they want the government telling them how to do more things.

That's part of the deal with using government issued currency.

It shouldn't be.  As long as the government is getting the right amount of tax, then why should they care if I round up or down at the register?

[NWI_Irish96]

Government and leadership acting like adults, responding to situations like adults, and talking to the public like adults (and not on the level of a sixth-grade education) would also certainly help.

To be fair, that's about the level of literacy that most American adults have.

Very true. In my government career, I had to compose a lot of written communications. Some were for GS-3 and GS-4 employees and some were for GS-15 and SES employees. If I had tried using the same vocabulary for both audiences, I'd have not lasted long in my job.

[mgk920]

when was the last time you used a Mill?

Mike

[kphoger]

when was the last time you used a Mill?

For mashed potatoes?

[formulanone]

Fun fact - government already tells you how to do things.

Fun fact - business owners already know that.  That doesn't mean they want the government telling them how to do more things.

That's part of the deal with using government issued currency.

It shouldn't be.  As long as the government is getting the right amount of tax, then why should they care if I round up or down at the register?

Legal tender is right in its name. Can't have all the benefits of capitalism if you're not going to adhere to some basic rules.

I get that suddenly a lot of people might start holding onto a lot of seemingly worthless coins and nobody wants to hold all the bad cards at the end of the game, but they're still legal to use until otherwise noted.

Or start issuing frequent shopper points, whatever.

[kalvado]

when was the last time you used a Mill?

Mike

Last week, but a small job - just surfacing the part and a hole pattern for threading. manually running the tap afterwards is easier, you know..

[kphoger]

Legal tender is right in its name. Can't have all the benefits of capitalism if you're not going to adhere to some basic rules.

How, exactly, does that relate to (a) rounding change down at .04 and rounding up at .05 vs (b) always rounding up in the customer's favor?  Those seem to be the two basic approaches right now, and I don't see why the government should care one way or the other how any individual business decides to do it.

[vdeane]

I would think in this instance it would be beneficial for the business - instead of arguing with an angry customer about how it would statistically even out, then can just have the government be the bad guy.  Plus maybe other countries also include rules on how this interacts with taxes and the like, making it easier to balance the books?

[kphoger]

I would think in this instance it would be beneficial for the business - instead of arguing with an angry customer about how it would statistically even out, then can just have the government be the bad guy.

Nah.  Then the customer would just be mad at the store and the government...

[kkt]

Fun fact - government already tells you how to do things.

Fun fact - business owners already know that.  That doesn't mean they want the government telling them how to do more things.

That's part of the deal with using government issued currency.

It shouldn't be.  As long as the government is getting the right amount of tax, then why should they care if I round up or down at the register?

There is such a thing as fraud.  Making up your own rounding rules to favor yourself probably counts.

[kalvado]

I would think in this instance it would be beneficial for the business - instead of arguing with an angry customer about how it would statistically even out, then can just have the government be the bad guy.

Nah.  Then the customer would just be mad at the store and the government...

getting mad about 4 cents? They are probably already mad at everyone anyway

[kphoger]

There is such a thing as fraud.  Making up your own rounding rules to favor yourself probably counts.

And yet, when the Indiana state government chose to pass SB 243, they explicitly allowed businesses to always round up if they so choose.

(a)  For a total transaction amount payable to a business entity, except as provided in subsection (b), the business entity must round the total transaction amount for all transactions with a number other than zero (0) or five (5) in the second decimal place by either:

 (1)  rounding the total transaction amount downward to the next amount divisible by five cents ($0.05);

 (2)  round the total transaction amount upward to the next amount divisible by five cents ($0.05);  or

 (3)  to the nearest five cent ($0.05) increment by:

  (A)  for a total transaction amount with one (1), two (2),six (6), or seven (7) in the second decimal place, rounding the total transaction amount downward to the next amount divisible by five cents ($0.05);  or

  (B)  for a total transaction amount with three (3), four (4), eight (8), or nine (9) in the second decimal place, rounding the total transaction amount upward to the next amount divisible by five cents ($0.05).

(b)  For a total transaction amount that is less than five cents ($0.05), the business entity may round the amount downward or upward to either zero cents ($0.00) or five cents ($0.05).

getting mad about 4 cents? They are probably already mad at everyone anyway

No argument here.

[TXtoNJ]

Government guidance would be nice but, if I ran a business, then I wouldn't want the government telling me how to give my own customers change at the register.

If I were a customer, I'd want the government to at least provide a fig leaf of protection against business owners trying to rip me off.

[GaryV]

"I'm from the gov'ment and I'm here to help."

That never ends well.

[Scott5114]

It shouldn't be.  As long as the government is getting the right amount of tax, then why should they care if I round up or down at the register?

The currency is the obligation of the government (in much the same way that a check written by you is an obligation of you), so it's very much an our-house-our-rules scenario. The government controls currency to such an extent that they decide how much of it even exists (the way they do this is through setting interest rates; high interest rates return currency to the government and thus destroy it).

Should they care? I don't know, but should parents care about everything they play the our-house-our-rules card on?

At the very least, some form of government regulation here would enforce uniformity on the process, which is probably better than the alternative, and it seems like it'd be the only way uniformity could realistically be achieved.

"I'm from the gov'ment and I'm here to help."

That never ends well.

The Interstate System didn't end well?

[thenetwork]

The Interstate System didn't end well?

Not really -- see I-70 in Baltimore...

[kphoger]

The currency is the obligation of the government (in much the same way that a check written by you is an obligation of you), so it's very much an our-house-our-rules scenario. The government controls currency to such an extent that they decide how much of it even exists (the way they do this is through setting interest rates; high interest rates return currency to the government and thus destroy it).

I'm trying to understand this, but I am a bear of very little brain.  If I write you a check, then I don't get to have any control over what you do with that check.  You can deposit it, or you can just keep it on your dresser forever, or you can endorse it to a third party, or you can cash it and throw half the cash in the garbage can and stuff the rest down your underpants.

[hbelkins]

The Interstate System didn't end well?

Not really -- see I-70 in Baltimore...

I-70 doesn't end in Baltimore.

--some forgotten forum member who probably ended up banned

[hotdogPi]

--some forgotten forum member who probably ended up banned

Not banned. You can always check https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?action=mlist — banned users don't appear.

[thenetwork]

The Interstate System didn't end well?

Not really -- see I-70 in just SHY of Baltimore...

Fixed.

[formulanone]

The Interstate System didn't end well?

Not really -- see I-70 in just SHY of Baltimore...

Fixed.

"JUST SHY OF" replaces "TO" in next edition of the MUTCD, mark my words.

[LilianaUwU]

The Interstate System didn't end well?

Not really -- see I-70 in just SHY of Baltimore...

Fixed.

"JUST SHY OF" replaces "TO" in next edition of the MUTCD, mark my words.

Wow, I can't believe you were right:



(source for the original image)