I think US/State Highways should be signed through national parks.

[Max Rockatansky]

Interestingly yellow was one of the front runner colors for the 1964 California spade coloring.  It tested well in foggy and snowy conditions.

[Quillz]

I do like the suggestion of specialized shields to maintain navigational assistance but also distinguish maintenance responsibility.  Caltrans could send NPS some blank spade shields, and NPS could paint them brown and put the arcing letters "YOSEMITE N.P." where "CALIFORNIA" usually goes above the "120".  Makes everybody happy!

Honestly, I feel like that's still unnecessarily confusing. Just post the normal signs; motorists don't need to know who is paving the road. Some state highways are town-maintained already.

I'm fine this myself, but I think realistically a middle ground approach of different colors schemes is more likely. I like yellow or brown.  Other colors like purple already have an unofficial purpose, like tolled roads. 

[pderocco]

This is something that varies between, and sometimes within, states. For example, Colorado seems to take the position that US 34 exists within Rocky Mountain NP. California law insists that CA 120 disappears at the west boundary of Yosemite NP, then reappears on the other side. (But there are some obviously fake CA 120 markers within the park, to guide tourists to exits from the park.) Parts of CA 190 and CA 178 exist within Death Valley NP, though I think the highways were there before the park was created or expanded, and the Park Service probably doesn't mind keeping them in the state system. I-40 passes through Petrified Forest NP in Arizona, perhaps for similar reasons.

Yosemite and Yellowstone are among the oldest NPs, which might explain their poorly/un-signed highways.

Death Valley was also only a national monument until 1994, plus there is no enterence toll.

Yup. As I learned, it's just honor system. You're supposed to buy a pass, but it's not really enforced.

I bought the America the Beautiful annual pass, though.

I haven't had to deal with this since I got my senior pass. Now I just waltz into any US park for free. One of the two things good about getting old.

[Max Rockatansky]

I do like the suggestion of specialized shields to maintain navigational assistance but also distinguish maintenance responsibility.  Caltrans could send NPS some blank spade shields, and NPS could paint them brown and put the arcing letters "YOSEMITE N.P." where "CALIFORNIA" usually goes above the "120".  Makes everybody happy!

Amusingly Kings Canyon National Park just used actual Caltrans spec CA 180 shields in Grant Grove.  That has always been a gap in state highway maintenance and apparently has always been signed.

[Quillz]

This is something that varies between, and sometimes within, states. For example, Colorado seems to take the position that US 34 exists within Rocky Mountain NP. California law insists that CA 120 disappears at the west boundary of Yosemite NP, then reappears on the other side. (But there are some obviously fake CA 120 markers within the park, to guide tourists to exits from the park.) Parts of CA 190 and CA 178 exist within Death Valley NP, though I think the highways were there before the park was created or expanded, and the Park Service probably doesn't mind keeping them in the state system. I-40 passes through Petrified Forest NP in Arizona, perhaps for similar reasons.

Yosemite and Yellowstone are among the oldest NPs, which might explain their poorly/un-signed highways.

Death Valley was also only a national monument until 1994, plus there is no enterence toll.

Yup. As I learned, it's just honor system. You're supposed to buy a pass, but it's not really enforced.

I bought the America the Beautiful annual pass, though.

I haven't had to deal with this since I got my senior pass. Now I just waltz into any US park for free. One of the two things good about getting old.

Might be able to do state parks and national monuments, too. That's what the pass covers. 

[Roadgeekteen]

This is something that varies between, and sometimes within, states. For example, Colorado seems to take the position that US 34 exists within Rocky Mountain NP. California law insists that CA 120 disappears at the west boundary of Yosemite NP, then reappears on the other side. (But there are some obviously fake CA 120 markers within the park, to guide tourists to exits from the park.) Parts of CA 190 and CA 178 exist within Death Valley NP, though I think the highways were there before the park was created or expanded, and the Park Service probably doesn't mind keeping them in the state system. I-40 passes through Petrified Forest NP in Arizona, perhaps for similar reasons.

Yosemite and Yellowstone are among the oldest NPs, which might explain their poorly/un-signed highways.

Death Valley was also only a national monument until 1994, plus there is no enterence toll.

Yup. As I learned, it's just honor system. You're supposed to buy a pass, but it's not really enforced.

I bought the America the Beautiful annual pass, though.

I haven't had to deal with this since I got my senior pass. Now I just waltz into any US park for free. One of the two things good about getting old.

Might be able to do state parks and national monuments, too. That's what the pass covers.

I think it cover monuments and I think National Forests. State parks are under a completely different juristiction and is not covered by the pass.

[pderocco]

This is something that varies between, and sometimes within, states. For example, Colorado seems to take the position that US 34 exists within Rocky Mountain NP. California law insists that CA 120 disappears at the west boundary of Yosemite NP, then reappears on the other side. (But there are some obviously fake CA 120 markers within the park, to guide tourists to exits from the park.) Parts of CA 190 and CA 178 exist within Death Valley NP, though I think the highways were there before the park was created or expanded, and the Park Service probably doesn't mind keeping them in the state system. I-40 passes through Petrified Forest NP in Arizona, perhaps for similar reasons.

Yosemite and Yellowstone are among the oldest NPs, which might explain their poorly/un-signed highways.

Death Valley was also only a national monument until 1994, plus there is no enterence toll.

Yup. As I learned, it's just honor system. You're supposed to buy a pass, but it's not really enforced.

I bought the America the Beautiful annual pass, though.

I haven't had to deal with this since I got my senior pass. Now I just waltz into any US park for free. One of the two things good about getting old.

Might be able to do state parks and national monuments, too. That's what the pass covers.

I think it cover monuments and I think National Forests. State parks are under a completely different juristiction and is not covered by the pass.

It also covers BLM lands that have fees, except if there's an event going on.

[Scott5114]

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the possibility that highways are intentionally not signed through parks to deter thru traffic from cutting through the park unnecessarily.

[pderocco]

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the possibility that highways are intentionally not signed through parks to deter thru traffic from cutting through the park unnecessarily.

Charging money for entry is a much bigger deterrent, and I doubt that such use of the roads is ever a significant percentage of the traffic. I've driven 190 through Death Valley a couple times just to get across it, but I suspect there are 100 times as many tourists who are there to visit it.

[Max Rockatansky]

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the possibility that highways are intentionally not signed through parks to deter thru traffic from cutting through the park unnecessarily.

Charging money for entry is a much bigger deterrent, and I doubt that such use of the roads is ever a significant percentage of the traffic. I've driven 190 through Death Valley a couple times just to get across it, but I suspect there are 100 times as many tourists who are there to visit it.

That monster grade on Towne Pass west of Death Valley probably is what actually scares off truckers. 

[fillup420]

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the possibility that highways are intentionally not signed through parks to deter thru traffic from cutting through the park unnecessarily.

This is why the NPS had all US 441 signage removed in Great Smoky Mtns NP, to deter through traffic. All commercial traffic is prohibited, and extra thru traffic would clog up Newfound Gap Rd much worse than it already can get.

Although, the road still is officially US 441 still. just no signs.

[Roadgeekteen]

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the possibility that highways are intentionally not signed through parks to deter thru traffic from cutting through the park unnecessarily.

There are some traffic movements though that are impossible to do practically without going through the park. How else are you supposed to go from Rexburg to Cody without going through Yellowstone? In the days of GPS however people will just be routed through there anyway.

[Max Rockatansky]

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the possibility that highways are intentionally not signed through parks to deter thru traffic from cutting through the park unnecessarily.

There are some traffic movements though that are impossible to do practically without going through the park. How else are you supposed to go from Rexburg to Cody without going through Yellowstone? In the days of GPS however people will just be routed through there anyway.

Heh, for one year the locals around Yosemite got the park to issue timed tickets to cross the Tioga Road during the summer reservation period.  Apparently, it wasn't popular with the Park Service folks, and they dropped it this year.  Essentially if you wanted to get to Mono County and didn't have a reservation one had to detour via CA 108 or some other road south of CA 190.

Then again, I'm not sure why a local couldn't just get out of bed and get inside Yosemite before the reservation system started at 7 AM.  My wife tells me frequently how wrong I am about this; I chalk it up to people being lazy.

[Roadgeekteen]

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the possibility that highways are intentionally not signed through parks to deter thru traffic from cutting through the park unnecessarily.

There are some traffic movements though that are impossible to do practically without going through the park. How else are you supposed to go from Rexburg to Cody without going through Yellowstone? In the days of GPS however people will just be routed through there anyway.

Heh, for one year the locals around Yosemite got the park to issue timed tickets to cross the Tioga Road during the summer reservation period.  Apparently, it wasn't popular with the Park Service folks, and they dropped it this year.  Essentially if you wanted to get to Mono County and didn't have a reservation one had to detour via CA 108 or some other road south of CA 190.

Then again, I'm not sure why a local couldn't just get out of bed and get inside Yosemite before the reservation system started at 7 AM.  My wife tells me frequently how wrong I am about this; I chalk it up to people being lazy.

People need to travel at all times of the day, not everyone can leave before 7 AM. And some people might be coming from even further.

[Max Rockatansky]

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the possibility that highways are intentionally not signed through parks to deter thru traffic from cutting through the park unnecessarily.

There are some traffic movements though that are impossible to do practically without going through the park. How else are you supposed to go from Rexburg to Cody without going through Yellowstone? In the days of GPS however people will just be routed through there anyway.

Heh, for one year the locals around Yosemite got the park to issue timed tickets to cross the Tioga Road during the summer reservation period.  Apparently, it wasn't popular with the Park Service folks, and they dropped it this year.  Essentially if you wanted to get to Mono County and didn't have a reservation one had to detour via CA 108 or some other road south of CA 190.

Then again, I'm not sure why a local couldn't just get out of bed and get inside Yosemite before the reservation system started at 7 AM.  My wife tells me frequently how wrong I am about this; I chalk it up to people being lazy.

People need to travel at all times of the day, not everyone can leave before 7 AM. And some people might be coming from even further.

Guess you're taking the long way to Mammoth Lakes then.  To clarify, you needed to be "in the park" before 7 AM. 

Then again, you could be a total badass instead by taking Chowchilla Mountain Road or the Coulterville Road into Yosemite.  There aren't any manned gates on either of those roads.

[kkt]

Death Valley was also only a national monument until 1994, plus there is no enterence toll.

The park does charge an entrance fee. But payment at the unmanned kiosks (no gates) is on an honor system. There are many dishonorable visitors, as well as some who visit only remote areas of the park far away from the kiosks.

Besides, if you're on 190 and just driving through, you should feel absolutely entitled to do so without paying a cent.

I think the only way fees like this get enforced is by patrols checking parked cars. If you don't park, you're never checked.

If the park is maintaining the road, the park needs to get some money for doing so.

[kkt]

This is something that varies between, and sometimes within, states. For example, Colorado seems to take the position that US 34 exists within Rocky Mountain NP. California law insists that CA 120 disappears at the west boundary of Yosemite NP, then reappears on the other side. (But there are some obviously fake CA 120 markers within the park, to guide tourists to exits from the park.) Parts of CA 190 and CA 178 exist within Death Valley NP, though I think the highways were there before the park was created or expanded, and the Park Service probably doesn't mind keeping them in the state system. I-40 passes through Petrified Forest NP in Arizona, perhaps for similar reasons.

Yosemite and Yellowstone are among the oldest NPs, which might explain their poorly/un-signed highways.

Death Valley was also only a national monument until 1994, plus there is no enterence toll.

Yup. As I learned, it's just honor system. You're supposed to buy a pass, but it's not really enforced.

I bought the America the Beautiful annual pass, though.

I haven't had to deal with this since I got my senior pass. Now I just waltz into any US park for free. One of the two things good about getting old.

What's the other one?

[Max Rockatansky]

Death Valley was also only a national monument until 1994, plus there is no enterence toll.

The park does charge an entrance fee. But payment at the unmanned kiosks (no gates) is on an honor system. There are many dishonorable visitors, as well as some who visit only remote areas of the park far away from the kiosks.

Besides, if you're on 190 and just driving through, you should feel absolutely entitled to do so without paying a cent.

I think the only way fees like this get enforced is by patrols checking parked cars. If you don't park, you're never checked.

If the park is maintaining the road, the park needs to get some money for doing so.

They aren't in the case of CA 190.

[Quillz]

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the possibility that highways are intentionally not signed through parks to deter thru traffic from cutting through the park unnecessarily.

Isn't that what the entrance fees are for?

[Rothman]

This is something that varies between, and sometimes within, states. For example, Colorado seems to take the position that US 34 exists within Rocky Mountain NP. California law insists that CA 120 disappears at the west boundary of Yosemite NP, then reappears on the other side. (But there are some obviously fake CA 120 markers within the park, to guide tourists to exits from the park.) Parts of CA 190 and CA 178 exist within Death Valley NP, though I think the highways were there before the park was created or expanded, and the Park Service probably doesn't mind keeping them in the state system. I-40 passes through Petrified Forest NP in Arizona, perhaps for similar reasons.

Yosemite and Yellowstone are among the oldest NPs, which might explain their poorly/un-signed highways.

Death Valley was also only a national monument until 1994, plus there is no enterence toll.

Yup. As I learned, it's just honor system. You're supposed to buy a pass, but it's not really enforced.

I bought the America the Beautiful annual pass, though.

Visit With Honor

[Roadgeekteen]

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the possibility that highways are intentionally not signed through parks to deter thru traffic from cutting through the park unnecessarily.

Isn't that what the entrance fees are for?

Some parks don't have entrance fees, but yes, that should discourage normal traffic. Though many people who live near parks probably have annual passes already.

[Max Rockatansky]

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the possibility that highways are intentionally not signed through parks to deter thru traffic from cutting through the park unnecessarily.

Isn't that what the entrance fees are for?

Some parks don't have entrance fees, but yes, that should discourage normal traffic. Though many people who live near parks probably have annual passes already.

Might be a broad assumption.  Most people I'm friends within Oakhurst and Mariposa rarely visit Yosemite.  My own wife had never been to Kings Canyon or Sequoia despite being an hour away until I took her in 2017. 

[Rothman]

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the possibility that highways are intentionally not signed through parks to deter thru traffic from cutting through the park unnecessarily.

Isn't that what the entrance fees are for?

Some parks don't have entrance fees, but yes, that should discourage normal traffic. Though many people who live near parks probably have annual passes already.

Might be a broad assumption.  Most people I'm friends within Oakhurst and Mariposa rarely visit Yosemite.  My own wife had never been to Kings Canyon or Sequoia despite being an hour away until I took her in 2017. 

My father mainly lived in Trenton, NJ until he was a teenager and never saw the Liberty Bell (Independence NHP).

[Roadgeekteen]

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the possibility that highways are intentionally not signed through parks to deter thru traffic from cutting through the park unnecessarily.

Isn't that what the entrance fees are for?

Some parks don't have entrance fees, but yes, that should discourage normal traffic. Though many people who live near parks probably have annual passes already.

Might be a broad assumption.  Most people I'm friends within Oakhurst and Mariposa rarely visit Yosemite.  My own wife had never been to Kings Canyon or Sequoia despite being an hour away until I took her in 2017. 

I mean yeah. Sounds crazy for me, but some people just aren't outdoors people.

[Scott5114]

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the possibility that highways are intentionally not signed through parks to deter thru traffic from cutting through the park unnecessarily.

Isn't that what the entrance fees are for?

Entrance fees require someone there to collect them to be a deterrent. That can be easier said than done.

I cut through Lake Mead NRA during a clinch trip, and stopped at the payment booth at the end of NV 147 to find nobody there. I flagged down a ranger to ask how to pay, and he said the A/C had been out in the booth all summer, so they weren't collecting fees at that entrance. So that wouldn't have been much of a deterrent if I had been wanting to use the park to bypass I-11 or something.