Mass. governor moves to end debt-based driver’s license suspensions

[ZLoth]

Originally posted on January 27th.

From WCVB:

Mass. governor moves to end debt-based driver's license suspensions

Massachusetts Gov. Maura Healey will announce a plan in her state budget tomorrow to end the state's policy of suspending driver's licenses for some debts, such as parking tickets or E-ZPass bills, a policy that advocates have said is cruel and counterproductive punishment for poor people, 5 Investigates has learned.

FULL ARTICLE HERE

From NBC Boston:

Law change would hit brakes on license suspensions for unpaid tolls and tickets

Massachusetts Sen. Julian Cyr is proposing legislation to keep drivers from losing their licenses because they owe money to the state government.

FULL ARTICLE HERE

[Scott5114]

It is kind of a stupid policy, because if you use your car to get to work, then your options are to break the law and keep driving so you can make the money to pay what you owe, or quit going to work and never be able to pay what you owe.

[kphoger]

It is kind of a stupid policy, because if you use your car to get to work, then your options are to break the law and keep driving so you can make the money to pay what you owe, or quit going to work and never be able to pay what you owe.

Third option:  get to work some other way.

[Max Rockatansky]

It is kind of a stupid policy, because if you use your car to get to work, then your options are to break the law and keep driving so you can make the money to pay what you owe, or quit going to work and never be able to pay what you owe.

Third option:  get to work some other way.

The Governor's stance seems to suggest that other options aren't practical/feasible for most people.

[kphoger]

The Governor's stance seems to suggest that other options aren't practical/feasible for most people.

I agree that it's much less practicable or feasible.  My point is only that more than two options exist.

[Max Rockatansky]

The Governor's stance seems to suggest that other options aren't practical/feasible for most people.

I agree that it's much less practicable or feasible.  My point is only that more than two options exist.

I guess that makes me wonder what the landscape of alternative transportation options actually are in Massachusetts?  I'm assuming they are better than what I see in my area given it is a New England state.  Even still, this doesn't seem like an inferred ringing endorsement from the Governor.  But yeah, this debt suspension deal doesn't sound like it was ever a well designed law.

[kphoger]

In my opinion, unpaid debts are a financial matter and should have no bearing on one's driver's license.  Send them to a collections agency if necessary, but don't suspend the person's DL.

[Scott5114]

It is kind of a stupid policy, because if you use your car to get to work, then your options are to break the law and keep driving so you can make the money to pay what you owe, or quit going to work and never be able to pay what you owe.

Third option:  get to work some other way.

I assume there are many more options for "other ways" in much of Massachusetts, but...surely you can see how that wouldn't have been a valid option for people living in the outlying parts of Rawlins County.

[Bobby5280]

Debt-based drivers license suspensions are a cruel policy and shouldn't be legal anywhere in the US. Also: if someone owes money for parking tickets the state shouldn't be able to sell the debt to third party companies that effectively operate like loan sharks.

For people who are living paycheck to paycheck a drivers license suspension due to unpaid or slow-paid traffic tickets can completely upend their lives. I remember one story on the news that tracked how a lady wound up homeless due to a fucking parking ticket she couldn't afford to pay on time. The city sold her debt to another company that charged extreme interest rates. She lost her license and then lost her job because she had no other way to get to work. Her car got repossessed after missing only one or two payments (sub prime auto loans) and then she got evicted.

There's no shortage of cruel assholes out there who would say, "the lady got what she deserved; she should pay her bills on time." I'm not talking that shit though. Life can really throw those curve balls to knock a jerk off his high horse.

[Scott5114]

In Illinois someone who owes child support is not allowed to claim roadkill.

[hotdogPi]

How many states have the debt-based driver's license suspension law?

[kalvado]

In Illinois someone who owes child support is not allowed to claim roadkill.

Whatever it worth... When my wife did hit a deer, I thought about the roadkill as one more liability - on top of fixing the car, making sure everyone can make it to work etc...

[Max Rockatansky]

In Illinois someone who owes child support is not allowed to claim roadkill.

Whatever it worth... When my wife did hit a deer, I thought about the roadkill as one more liability - on top of fixing the car, making sure everyone can make it to work etc...

In Arizona if you hit an Elk with a large vehicle odds are someone is going to want to claim the carcass.  The roadkill meat is actually surprisingly pretty decent after it is cooked.

[kphoger]

I assume there are many more options for "other ways" in much of Massachusetts, but...surely you can see how that wouldn't have been a valid option for people living in the outlying parts of Rawlins County.

Typically, in the outlying parts of Rawlins County, any given household isn't occupied by a single person.  Typically, someone else in the family could drive the person into town.

roadkill meet

You should totally do that.

[Max Rockatansky]

I assume there are many more options for "other ways" in much of Massachusetts, but...surely you can see how that wouldn't have been a valid option for people living in the outlying parts of Rawlins County.

Typically, in the outlying parts of Rawlins County, any given household isn't occupied by a single person.  Typically, someone else in the family could drive the person into town.

roadkill meet

You should totally do that.

Seligman-Oatman Meet along Old US 66.  Meet up breakfast at the Roadkill Cafe. 

[Rothman]

There's a dead skunk in the middle of the road, stinkin' to high heaven...

[Scott5114]

Typically, in the outlying parts of Rawlins County, any given household isn't occupied by a single person.  Typically, someone else in the family could drive the person into town.

So, by removing someone's ability to drive a car legally, the actual punishment you would be bringing upon them is removing their right to choose to live alone or to choose not to have a family.

[kphoger]

So, by removing someone's ability to drive a car legally, the actual punishment you would be bringing upon them is removing their right to choose to live alone or to choose not to have a family.

Hey, I'm not in favor of the license suspension in the first place.  I'm just saying there's more than one way to get places, even in a rural area, and especially for a limited time until one can save up enough money to pay the debt.

I currently work more than ten miles from home, the bus doesn't come within 2½ miles of work, and I've been without a car for a week or two before.  I got rides from co-workers and friends.  Obviously, not every single person could make something like that work, depending on their situation.  But many could.

Before we moved to Wichita, I worked three miles from home and rarely drove there.  I occasionally hitchhiked home.

[Bobby5280]

In Arizona if you hit an Elk with a large vehicle odds are someone is going to want to claim the carcass. The roadkill meat is actually surprisingly pretty decent after it is cooked.

Whether the elk is felled by a rifle bullet or a motor vehicle it would need to be strung up and bled out as soon as possible after it died. Wait around too long and the meat will be gamey as hell, even worse that deer meat. Most hunters know to get elk processed quickly though. In most states where elk can be hunted the tags can get expensive, and really super expensive if you're an out of state hunter. It would be a shame to have the price of the hunting tags go to waste.

If I saw an elk carcass off the side of the road I wouldn't go near it, much less think about trying to harvest any of it. If I saw the elk get hit and could react immediately (and was prepared for such a thing) then it might be worth trying to salvage the meat.

[Scott5114]

I'm just saying there's more than one way to get places, even in a rural area, and especially for a limited time until one can save up enough money to pay the debt.

I currently work more than ten miles from home, the bus doesn't come within 2½ miles of work, and I've been without a car for a week or two before.  I got rides from co-workers and friends.  Obviously, not every single person could make something like that work, depending on their situation.

Sure. I'm just pointing out that the government shouldn't be making such decisions on the assumption that the person can get by on the charity of others. Especially in a smaller town someone could find themselves in a situation where lots of people could help but choose not to. Maybe the guy is a minority and the townsfolk are racist, or maybe he's gay and they're homophobic, or maybe he's autistic and people are weirded out by him. Maybe he's just a dick so nobody wants to help him, but I don't think someone should be unable to make an honest living just because they're a dick.

[Max Rockatansky]

In Arizona if you hit an Elk with a large vehicle odds are someone is going to want to claim the carcass. The roadkill meat is actually surprisingly pretty decent after it is cooked.

Whether the elk is felled by a rifle bullet or a motor vehicle it would need to be strung up and bled out as soon as possible after it died. Wait around too long and the meat will be gamey as hell, even worse that deer meat. Most hunters know to get elk processed quickly though. In most states where elk can be hunted the tags can get expensive, and really super expensive if you're an out of state hunter. It would be a shame to have the price of the hunting tags go to waste.

If I saw an elk carcass off the side of the road I wouldn't go near it, much less think about trying to harvest any of it. If I saw the elk get hit and could react immediately (and was prepared for such a thing) then it might be worth trying to salvage the meat.

Back in 2005 I was staying at cabin with some friends off of AZ 260 near Star Valley.  One of us caught wind there was a fresh elk kill on the highway.  A bunch of us went out and loaded the carcass into my truck then brought it back to the cabin.  We cooked elk meat for about the next week.  Sure beat backtracking to Basha's in Payson to buy meat products.

[kphoger]

I'm just pointing out that the government shouldn't be making such decisions on the assumption that the person can get by on the charity of others. Especially in a smaller town someone could find themselves in a situation where lots of people could help but choose not to. Maybe the guy is a minority and the townsfolk are racist, or maybe he's gay and they're homophobic, or maybe he's autistic and people are weirded out by him. Maybe he's just a dick so nobody wants to help him, but I don't think someone should be unable to make an honest living just because they're a dick.

Fortunately, there are no minorities, gay people, dicks, or anyone on the spectrum living in rural Rawlins County.  (I checked.)  And there are none in Massachusetts either.  (I assume.)

[Scott5114]

I'm just pointing out that the government shouldn't be making such decisions on the assumption that the person can get by on the charity of others. Especially in a smaller town someone could find themselves in a situation where lots of people could help but choose not to. Maybe the guy is a minority and the townsfolk are racist, or maybe he's gay and they're homophobic, or maybe he's autistic and people are weirded out by him. Maybe he's just a dick so nobody wants to help him, but I don't think someone should be unable to make an honest living just because they're a dick.

Fortunately, there are no minorities, gay people, dicks, or anyone on the spectrum living in rural Rawlins County.  (I checked.)  And there are none in Massachusetts either.  (I assume.)

The 2020 Census says there are six black people in Rawlins County outside of Atwood. Maybe you should call them up and tell them they should double-check. (The Census Bureau, I mean, not the six black people. Presumably they can tell you without checking.)

Unfortunately the Census Bureau is silent on the number of dicks living in Rawlins County. To get a count of that, you would need to look at election results (the number of dicks is equal to the number of people who didn't vote for your preferred candidate).

[Big John]

There's a dead skunk in the middle of the road, stinkin' to high heaven...

[kphoger]

The 2020 Census says there are six black people in Rawlins County outside of Atwood. Maybe you should call them up and tell them they should double-check. (The Census Bureau, I mean, not the six black people. Presumably they can tell you without checking.)

They probably all live in Herndon.  They're all just a bunch of gay black autistic dicks over in Herndon.
[/sarcasm]

In all seriousness, I did know one black person when I lived there.  I think he was in my sister's grade in school.

I'm pretty sure one of the guys in the grade below mine ended up being gay.  (But then, a lot of my classmates legitimately thought I was gay, so take that for what it's worth.)

And I estimate that 80% of the county's male population under age 25 are dicks.  At least, when I lived there.

In actual seriousness, I wonder if some of those black people in that census simply live south of the city limits.  For example, everything south of here is in Rawlins County but not Atwood.