FIFA Don't like Metlife

[vdeane]

- Most people, in common conversation, never use corporate, or political/historical, names for stadiums, airports, roads or whatever.  Unless you are in a really big city, the airport is "the airport", the other airport is "Jim is flying to Kansas City", the ball game is "the Cubs are in town through Thursday", and the road is "Route 67" (or some other regional variation on the manner of speech.

I've never heard of the full names of stadiums not being uses.  Times Union Center/MVP Arena, Blue Cross Arena, Frontier Field (granted, not sure if this still holds now that ESL has the naming rights, since I haven't heard anyone refer to it since the Frontier Field days), and Highmark Stadium all get referred to by those names.

True with the Greater Rochester International Airport, but Albany's is generally referred to as including the city name, since our proximity to NYC means that people will often just drive or take a train to JFK or LaGuardia and fly direct to wherever they're going rather than bother with a transfer.

Route numbers are seldom used outside of freeways or major highways in urban/suburban areas.  NY 5 is Central Avenue or State Street depending on which county you're in.  US 20 is Western Avenue or Madison Avenue.  NY 32 is Broadway/Pearl Street.  US 9, however, is often referred to by number since so many use it as an alternate to the Northway, but some also call it Loudon Road.  NY 7 is Troy-Schenectady Road, Hoosick Street, or even "Alternate Route 7" unless you're going to Vermont.  Meanwhile, NY 787 is "Interstate 787" even though it's not an interstate.

[DTComposer]

Minor thing that bothers me: the use of the possessive apostrophe instead of the contraction apostrophe for decades. It should be '80s, not 80's.

[NWI_Irish96]

MetLife isn't named for a company, it's named for a *checks standings* really bad baseball team.

[Scott5114]

Minor thing that bothers me: the use of the possessive apostrophe instead of the contraction apostrophe for decades. It should be '80s, not 80's.

Using an apostrophe to pluralize a number or single letter to avoid potential ambiguity has been accepted typographical practice for decades. To use a sports example, you'll often see "the A's", because "the As" is ambiguous (it looks like it could be the word as).

[1995hoo]

- Most people, in common conversation, never use corporate, or political/historical, names for stadiums, airports, roads or whatever.  Unless you are in a really big city, the airport is "the airport", the other airport is "Jim is flying to Kansas City", the ball game is "the Cubs are in town through Thursday", and the road is "Route 67" (or some other regional variation on the manner of speech.

I've never heard of the full names of stadiums not being uses. ...

Remember you're responding to someone from West Virginia, whereas you live in an area that probably falls within his "really big city" category. I certainly do, and people here definitely don't use the generic terminology he thinks is normal. It would be too ambiguous, including as to the sports venues.

[DTComposer]

Minor thing that bothers me: the use of the possessive apostrophe instead of the contraction apostrophe for decades. It should be '80s, not 80's.

Using an apostrophe to pluralize a number or single letter to avoid potential ambiguity has been accepted typographical practice for decades. To use a sports example, you'll often see "the A's", because "the As" is ambiguous (it looks like it could be the word as).

It is true apostrophes on single letters is accepted use, as you state (see also "mind your p's and q's"), but it is not accepted practice for pluralizing years:

https://www.grammarbook.com/blog/apostrophes/the-apostrophe-with-numbers-letters-and-abbreviations/#google_vignette

https://www.proofreadnow.com/blog/bid/85788/plurals-and-punctuation-of-numbers

In any case, the pennant wasn't trying to indicate plural (it's referring to the single decade 1980-1989, not ten separate years), it was contracting "1980s" - so the apostrophe should have been in the place of "19."

[Scott5114]

"''1'9'8'0's'"

[1995hoo]

Minor thing that bothers me: the use of the possessive apostrophe instead of the contraction apostrophe for decades. It should be '80s, not 80's.

Using an apostrophe to pluralize a number or single letter to avoid potential ambiguity has been accepted typographical practice for decades. To use a sports example, you'll often see "the A's", because "the As" is ambiguous (it looks like it could be the word as).

It is true apostrophes on single letters is accepted use, as you state (see also "mind your p's and q's"), but it is not accepted practice for pluralizing years:

https://www.grammarbook.com/blog/apostrophes/the-apostrophe-with-numbers-letters-and-abbreviations/#google_vignette

https://www.proofreadnow.com/blog/bid/85788/plurals-and-punctuation-of-numbers

In any case, the pennant wasn't trying to indicate plural (it's referring to the single decade 1980-1989, not ten separate years), it was contracting "1980s" - so the apostrophe should have been in the place of "19."

I think the standard has changed on that over the years. My father once said the use of the apostrophe to pluralize years like that was taught as normal when he was a kid (during the 1950s), but it definitely wasn't normal by the time I was old enough to notice the distinction (in the 1980s). It's certainly illogical to use an apostrophe to pluralize in that situation.

I think what bugs me more is when people try to truncate years with an apostrophe but instead use an opening single quotation mark. I suspect part of it is ignorance and part of it is just assuming that whatever the software does is correct (which, I suppose, you could consider a form of ignorance, though I view it a bit differently).

[Bruce]

For me I don't dislike soccer, but it is sport centered around nationalism.  Similar national level events like the Olympics really doesn't grab much interest in other sports I follow like basketball, hockey and baseball.  I wonder if I would care more if Detroit had some sort of presence in MLS. 

International soccer is based around nationalism. But it's not the entire sport.

Club soccer is a different entity entirely. It is based around the local community in ways that only college sports can match in the U.S. Kids from the local neighborhoods will join an academy and advance up to the professional team and join any number of players from around the world. I rarely watch national team games, since they usually are harder to follow outside of tournament play.

International club soccer is another beast entirely. Very fun and chaotic, but also heartbreaking.

[Jim]

I can't decide which I find more distasteful, the ever-changing corporate names or FIFA for forcing the issue to waste so much money in de-branding for their tournament.

Corporation names being in stadium names like Wrigley Field and Busch Stadium don't bother me because they've been the same forever.  The ones like the Houston baseball stadium that has changed at least a few times really just annoy me.

[Bruce]

- Most people, in common conversation, never use corporate, or political/historical, names for stadiums, airports, roads or whatever.  Unless you are in a really big city, the airport is "the airport", the other airport is "Jim is flying to Kansas City", the ball game is "the Cubs are in town through Thursday", and the road is "Route 67" (or some other regional variation on the manner of speech. 

- Corporate naming rights seem to be an ego thing, as the list of companies that have gone broke while holding naming rights seems long.

- Soccer is the sport of the next generation.  Four generations and counting. 

Most Americans live in a metro area with multiple stadiums (unless San Antonio suddenly has 100 million people). And they will most likely use the name of said stadium, even if it is sponsored. Maybe some folks will stick to an older name, but when the media uses the new name most people will follow.

I don't think many companies have ever gone broke because of a naming rights deal, but plenty see it as a worthwhile expenditure to build goodwill in their community. Or just increase exposure in media, which very much plays a part. T-Mobile certainly gets their dollars for sponsoring the Mariners ballpark, and the perks they have for customers at the ballpark are nice to have.

Soccer is here. It doesn't need to overtake other sports, but has found a comfortable niche with sold-out stadiums, a regular rotation of tournaments, and a competitive league at the continental level. The NASL could have only dreamt of playing in some of the new MLS stadiums with quality grass, no shared tenant, and all the comforts you'd expect in a larger venue but without their issues fitting in an urban area.

[Scott5114]

I can't decide which I find more distasteful, the ever-changing corporate names or FIFA for forcing the issue to waste so much money in de-branding for their tournament.

What money is FIFA wasting here? I don't think they're actually requiring the branding to be removed, are they? They're just refusing to use the corporate names in their messaging, so far as I know.

Most Americans live in a metro area with multiple stadiums (unless San Antonio suddenly has 100 million people).

You mean most Americans don't live in a town of nine people with a density of 0.000000000000000000000000032 people per square mile, 18,064 miles from the nearest gravel road, like they do in SP Cook's batshit view of the world? Shocking.

Soccer is here. It doesn't need to overtake other sports, but has found a comfortable niche with sold-out stadiums, a regular rotation of tournaments, and a competitive league at the continental level.

Nobody watches soccer; the stadiums are too crowded.

[Jim]

I can't decide which I find more distasteful, the ever-changing corporate names or FIFA for forcing the issue to waste so much money in de-branding for their tournament.

What money is FIFA wasting here? I don't think they're actually requiring the branding to be removed, are they? They're just refusing to use the corporate names in their messaging, so far as I know.

I'm assuming what's described here incurs a substantial cost.

[Scott5114]

I can't decide which I find more distasteful, the ever-changing corporate names or FIFA for forcing the issue to waste so much money in de-branding for their tournament.

What money is FIFA wasting here? I don't think they're actually requiring the branding to be removed, are they? They're just refusing to use the corporate names in their messaging, so far as I know.

I'm assuming what's described here incurs a substantial cost.

It doesn't exactly describe what would be an acceptable level of "concealment", so I would guess that sticking a tarp up would count. Probably.

[Bruce]

I can't decide which I find more distasteful, the ever-changing corporate names or FIFA for forcing the issue to waste so much money in de-branding for their tournament.

What money is FIFA wasting here? I don't think they're actually requiring the branding to be removed, are they? They're just refusing to use the corporate names in their messaging, so far as I know.

I'm assuming what's described here incurs a substantial cost.

It doesn't exactly describe what would be an acceptable level of "concealment", so I would guess that sticking a tarp up would count. Probably.

Not sure about what MetLife will be doing, but Lumen Field in Seattle is also being renamed for the tournament and a few of the confirmed plans are to cover the rooftop signs with tarps (or repaint it outright) and cover the external signs with a shell of sorts. A bit nicer than a tarp but still not a full sign.

The local organizing committee is doing their own branding push with a bunch of "beacons" installed in public places or smaller versions inside businesses. They're quite nice, so I hope they stick around for a few months.

[vdeane]

I can't decide which I find more distasteful, the ever-changing corporate names or FIFA for forcing the issue to waste so much money in de-branding for their tournament.

Corporation names being in stadium names like Wrigley Field and Busch Stadium don't bother me because they've been the same forever.  The ones like the Houston baseball stadium that has changed at least a few times really just annoy me.

While I find the changing names when corporate sponsors change annoying, I think I'm more annoyed in the moment at FIFA, both because that's on my mind right now due to this thread, and because the names are so clunky and stupid.  They couldn't use "Meadowlands Stadium" instead of "New York New Jersey Stadium"?  Is "the NYC area game is being played across the river in NJ in the Meadowlands complex" too complicated for Soccer fans?

[Bruce]

Is "the NYC area game is being played across the river in NJ in the Meadowlands complex" too complicated for Soccer fans?

Yes, because the name has to be translated to dozens of languages for consistent use across guides, broadcasts, and other materials. Easier to just use the name of a city. "Meadowlands" might not have a valid translation in some languages.

For the 2006 World Cup in Germany, the same kind of generic names were used to replace sponsored venues.

[MikeTheActuary]

What money is FIFA wasting here? I don't think they're actually requiring the branding to be removed, are they? They're just refusing to use the corporate names in their messaging, so far as I know.

FIFA gets a bunch of money from corporate sponsorship of the tournament.

The ONLY corporate brands that are to be mentioned in the context of the tournament are those that have paid FIFA for the privilege.

And if a corporation (say, Hyundai/Kia) has paid for exclusivity, FIFA really doesn't want a competitor (say, Mercedes-Benz) being mentioned.

This was one of the conditions of being included in the bid book for the World Cup.

[hotdogPi]

They should have reverted Estadio Azteca to that name; it only changed away from it in 2025.

[kalvado]

They should have reverted Estadio Azteca to that name; it only changed away from it in 2025.

But imagine Spain playing and winning in that stadium...

[kphoger]

I'm not sure why they thought "80s" should be possessive, though.

As others have mentioned, it's totally normal to use an apostrophe when pluralizing a numeral.  Specifically, it is an older standard that has officially been changed in manuals of style but persists in common usage because not everyone is a nerd.

Here, for example, is the 1906 version of the Chicago Manual of Style:

[1995hoo]

.... not everyone is a nerd. ....

Ehhh. Both writing and proofreading are major parts of what I do for a living, perhaps the predominant aspects of what I do. Once you know that, it shouldn't be a surprise that I enjoy the minutia of such things. I recently asked someone to correct three commas that were italicized when they should not have been (an issue that, admittedly, is less noticeable to many readers than it was in the old days when underlining predominated).

[kphoger]

Both writing and proofreading are major parts of what I do for a living, perhaps the predominant aspects of what I do. Once you know that, it shouldn't be a surprise that I enjoy the minutia of such things.

Only one tiny detail, huh?  None of the others?

[elsmere241]

I don't think many companies have ever gone broke because of a naming rights deal

I've seen many companies that I knew (or first heard of) because they put their names on stadiums, then went under.  It's a long list.

[SP Cook]

Remember you're responding to someone from West Virginia, whereas you live in an area that probably falls within his "really big city" category. I certainly do, and people here definitely don't use the generic terminology he thinks is normal. It would be too ambiguous, including as to the sports venues.

I wasn't really referring to West Virginia, but most people here have the sense to know that "Charleston" or "the airport" is sufficient, I have never heard anyone say The John Davidson Rockefeller IV Terminal at the General Charles "Chuck" Yeager West Virginia International Airport" other than to laugh about it.

Likewise most people would say Marshall or WVU is playing at home, having the sense to know what season it is and thus not saying James F. Edwards Field at Joan C. Edwards Stadium, The Cameron "Cam" Henderson Academic and Athletic Center, or Jack Cook Field (no relation), all a part of the Chris Cline Academic and Athletic Complex, or the Hoops Family Field at the Veterans Memorial Soccer Stadium; or Mylan Puscar Stadium at Mountaineer Field, the Hope Gas WVU Coliseum, Monongalia County Ballpark, or Dick Diesk Soccer Stadium.  Likewise the joke independent baseball team plays at the ballpark, no one says Go Mart Park (formerly AEP Appalachian Power Park).

I was thinking of big cities, I mostly fly out of CLT or CVG, and no Uber driver has ever looked sideways at me for asking to go to the airport, rather than Cincinnati-Northern Kentucky International Airport or Charlotte - Douglas International Airport.  Likewise ballpark, football stadium, etc are sufficient.  CLT is located off I 485 and I 85 , no one has ever corrected me that it is the Sheldon "Rusty" Goode Jr, Freeway, until it becomes the Craig Lawwing Freeway, with 85 being the North Carolina Blue Star Memorial Freeway.  CVG is located off I 275, which no one has ever corrected me that it's the Ronald Reagan Highway in Kentucky.

I have traveled a little and found that words like "Miami", "Detroit" "Atlanta" or "Las Vegas" convey my intent well.

The only time you need to be more specific is places like Chicago, Washington or New York, with multiple airports.  Never been there but my bet is "take me to the Mets ballgame" would satisfy any cab driver in NY, without any reference to Citi Bank.