Why isn't I-215 signed to Tropicana Avenue?

[Max Rockatansky]

I started working on a blog for our page on the Las Vegas Beltway today.  When I was looking up the AASHTO/FHWA approvals in 1993 for I-215 I noticed they actually approved the designation west of I-15 to Tropicana Avenue (then NV 593).  Aside from the segment of the Las Vegas Beltway between I-15 and Tropicana Avenue being maintained by Clark County (Clark County Route 215) is there a particular reason this segment isn't signed as I-215?  The current FHWA mileage log only has I-215 extending from I-11 in Henderson west to I-15.  I'm not aware of any rules by AASHTO or the FHWA which specifically bar non-state DOTs from maintaining US Route or Interstate segments.

[Scott5114]

A couple of possible reasons:

- There's perpetual confusion over who to contact for what in Las Vegas, because the city limits here are weird and so much of what looks like it should be in some city's limits isn't. These days you report everything on an app for Clark County and the backend silently routes the request to the proper agency, but before that it was probably a lot easier to tell people "Interstate shield goes to NDOT and pentagon goes to the county". (It should be noted that the county actually built a good chunk of what is now I-215 and later transferred it to NDOT, so they probably had some experience dealing with that confusion during that era.)
- Trop is an awkward place for the designation to change over. There is not really anything there that would seem like a logical reason for the shield shape to change. At least I-15 is a major interchange so there's that.

I think 1993 was about when the development of the Summerlin area was in full swing so that might explain why they jumped the gun on extending the Interstate designation that far. Perhaps the idea was for it to be a spur to Summerlin for a while instead of a full loop around North Las Vegas, and then when the full loop idea got traction they went with the signage scheme they have now.

[pderocco]

The stretch in question wasn't completed as a freeway until 2006. Maybe by then, no one really cared any more about the Interstate designation, because it was ancient history.

[Max Rockatansky]

The stretch in question wasn't completed as a freeway until 2006. Maybe by then, no one really cared any more about the Interstate designation, because it was ancient history.

Thing is the original projection for the corridor had it being complete between Henderson and Tropicana by 2005.  That estimate was actually pretty close to accurate. 

[roadfro]

With the way the beltway construction was first envisioned, the county originally planned to build the actual freeway in multiple phases from I-15 westward all the way around. They later decided to do the fast track plan putting in the frontage road system first from Decatur westward (which more quickly facilitated changing regional traffic patterns), then going back to build the mainline when funding allowed. Obviously, they couldn't sign frontage roads with an interstate shield, and NDOT had no hand in building this part...

Also, note that NDOT's MO has typically been not to sign interstate designations until they are completed to a 'logical' endpoint... which would typically be another numbered state-maintained highway or the final planned terminus of the freeway (particularly in the case of spurs).

Tropicana Ave has never been designated SR 593 or state-maintained west of Rainbow Blvd (SR 595). So, from the NDOT MO perspective, the first logical endpoint for the western I-215 designation would have been Charleston Blvd (SR 159). That does make the AASHTO request establishing 215 up to Tropicana somewhat peculiar. I haven't come across anything that explains why NDOT chose that for the western endpoint (but I also haven't done any extensive research on this).

Going the other direction, NDOT originally maintained just the first ≈2 miles of I-215 adjacent to I-15 and the final ≈2 miles adjacent to I-515, at least according to the NDOT State Maintained Highways books (the changeover of maintenance of the middle segment only happened fairly recently). So there is nothing prohibiting County-maintained beltway sections from posting the I-shield because we had a ≈25+ year precedent a few miles away. 

[kphoger]

Obviously, they couldn't sign frontage roads with an interstate shield

They should have consulted with TxDOT. 

[Max Rockatansky]

With the way the beltway construction was first envisioned, the county originally planned to build the actual freeway in multiple phases from I-15 westward all the way around. They later decided to do the fast track plan putting in the frontage road system first from Decatur westward (which more quickly facilitated changing regional traffic patterns), then going back to build the mainline when funding allowed. Obviously, they couldn't sign frontage roads with an interstate shield, and NDOT had no hand in building this part...

Also, note that NDOT's MO has typically been not to sign interstate designations until they are completed to a 'logical' endpoint... which would typically be another numbered state-maintained highway or the final planned terminus of the freeway (particularly in the case of spurs).

Tropicana Ave has never been designated SR 593 or state-maintained west of Rainbow Blvd (SR 595). So, from the NDOT MO perspective, the first logical endpoint for the western I-215 designation would have been Charleston Blvd (SR 159). That does make the AASHTO request establishing 215 up to Tropicana somewhat peculiar. I haven't come across anything that explains why NDOT chose that for the western endpoint (but I also haven't done any extensive research on this).

Going the other direction, NDOT originally maintained just the first ≈2 miles of I-215 adjacent to I-15 and the final ≈2 miles adjacent to I-515, at least according to the NDOT State Maintained Highways books (the changeover of maintenance of the middle segment only happened fairly recently). So there is nothing prohibiting County-maintained beltway sections from posting the I-shield because we had a ≈25+ year precedent a few miles away.

Part of the issue I'm having is finding the early timeline for the western and northern parts of the beltway.  The only reason I know much of anything with the southern segment is because the AASHTO request makes specific references to timeline milestones.  Summerlin Parkway amusingly had more documentation out there than the beltway. 

[roadfro]

Part of the issue I'm having is finding the early timeline for the western and northern parts of the beltway.  The only reason I know much of anything with the southern segment is because the AASHTO request makes specific references to timeline milestones.  Summerlin Parkway amusingly had more documentation out there than the beltway. 

I'll try to see what I have in my roadgeek files here in the next few days. I saved some newsletters Clark County Public Works used to put out in the late 1990's/early 2000's that might have some useful info.

[pderocco]

It's kind of fun to peruse the beltway in Google Earth historic imagery. Before 2003 there are some missing parts, but for quite a spell you can see long stretches that were undivided, and were eventually torn up when the freeway was built on a slightly different alignment.

[andy3175]

I started working on a blog for our page on the Las Vegas Beltway today.  When I was looking up the AASHTO/FHWA approvals in 1993 for I-215 I noticed they actually approved the designation west of I-15 to Tropicana Avenue (then NV 593).  Aside from the segment of the Las Vegas Beltway between I-15 and Tropicana Avenue being maintained by Clark County (Clark County Route 215) is there a particular reason this segment isn't signed as I-215?  The current FHWA mileage log only has I-215 extending from I-11 in Henderson west to I-15.  I'm not aware of any rules by AASHTO or the FHWA which specifically bar non-state DOTs from maintaining US Route or Interstate segments.

Interstates are supposed to terminate at another Interstate or roads within the National Highway System. This comes from Code of Federal Regulations, Title 23 Chapter I Subchapter E Part 470 (see https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-23/chapter-I/subchapter-E/part-470).

Appendix A, Item 4. The proposed route should connect to the Interstate System at each end, with the exception of Interstate routes that connect with continental routes at an international border, or terminate in a "major highway traffic generator" that is not served by another Interstate route. In the latter case, the terminus of the Interstate route should connect to routes of the National Highway System that will adequately handle the traffic. The proposed route also must be functionally classified as a principal arterial and be a part of the National Highway System system.

However, the year of this approval (1993) was before the NHS was established in 1995. Looking at the current Nevada State-Maintained Highway Descriptions index from 2026, some of Tropicana Ave is within the NHS, but not the westernmost section leading  to its interchange with Clark County Route (CR) 215. So I guess the rules on termination points may have been different in 1993?

For what it's worth, Interstate 15 is approved by AASHTO to extend south of I-8 in San Diego, but that hasn't happened yet either. So perhaps execution of the approval to sign I-215 is awaiting certain other elements (FHWA approval, corridor construction work, new interchanges, etc.) before it can be submitted for full inclusion in the Interstate system. There are other Interstates that are not state maintained (Chicago Skyway Interstate 90 comes to mind, but there are more), so county maintenance of CR 215 should not matter (unless that is frowned upon by state DOTs, since they are the members of AASHTO? Maybe Nevada DOT is not able financially to pick up maintenance of this freeway, and the county does not want to proceed with designation at this time?).

So I would think the NHS endpoint, construction status to full Interstate standards, FHWA approval, DOT concurrence, etc. all seem to be material elements on whether they can sign the road as I-215.

[pderocco]

This is all moot now, since the whole thing could be signed as an Interstate, as it goes all the way up to I-15. That is, as long as current practice allows county maintained freeways in the Interstate system.

[Max Rockatansky]

That approval by AASHTO to extend I-15 southward on CA 15 was conditional.  The condition was that CA 15 be brought to Interstate standards which never actually happened.  Caltrans then asked for another pre-approval from AASHTO regarding extending I-210 in 1996.  They got denied and haven't bothered submitting another Interstate application since.

With CC 215 I'll be interested to see what happens when the Summerlin Parkway Interchange is complete.  To my knowledge that was the only substandard segment left. 

[US 395]

Is there really a need for CC 215 to be I-215? People in Vegas call it the 215 regardless of the shield. It could be argued that since the existing I-215 connects between two Interstates, it completes a "loop" so to say.

[The Ghostbuster]

CC-215 should've become Interstate 215 upon completion of upgrading the Clark County segment to Interstate Standards.

[Jim]

If it's a single route that's all eligible to be I-215, which apparently it is, make it so.  Isn't it more confusing to include what is essentially a meaningless public-facing designation change?  Especially to a county route, which implies to your average driver who's not familiar with the road a whole different expectation of road quality.

[pderocco]

With CC 215 I'll be interested to see what happens when the Summerlin Parkway Interchange is complete.  To my knowledge that was the only substandard segment left. 

Do Interstate standards extend to the intersecting roads? The exits from and entrances to CR-215 looked Interstate quality, but the way they intersected the parkway looked a bit behind-the-times.

[Scott5114]

Especially to a county route, which implies to your average driver who's not familiar with the road a whole different expectation of road quality.

However:
1. Clark County doesn't have any other numbered routes, and the only other county I know of with county pentagons in Nevada is Washoe six hours away, so there is not much expectation of county road quality either way,
2. The shields used for Clark County 215 are noticeably non-standard, so even if someone had an expectation of county road quality informed by other states, the differences in the shield may negate that,
3. Clark County goes out of its way to never call it a "county road/route", always specifying it as "CC 215" rather than "CR 215".

I wouldn't mind it being I-215 but as long as Clark County maintains it I am fine with it remaining CC 215. Until it gets transferred to NDOT, there is operational benefit in having different shields, since it makes it easier to refer maintenance requests to the correct agency.

With CC 215 I'll be interested to see what happens when the Summerlin Parkway Interchange is complete.  To my knowledge that was the only substandard segment left. 

Do Interstate standards extend to the intersecting roads? The exits from and entrances to CR-215 looked Interstate quality, but the way they intersected the parkway looked a bit behind-the-times.

No, but the CC 215/SR 613 interchange is a Clark County project, so it would be pretty awkward to dump it on NDOT before that project is completed.

It should be noted that Summerlin Parkway was built by the City of Las Vegas so there was probably little real thought of interstate standards at the time. (I'm a little sad we didn't get some sort of silly LV route number and shield to match CC 215 before it got sent to NDOT and became SR 613.)

[pderocco]

Especially to a county route, which implies to your average driver who's not familiar with the road a whole different expectation of road quality.

However:
1. Clark County doesn't have any other numbered routes, and the only other county I know of with county pentagons in Nevada is Washoe six hours away, so there is not much expectation of county road quality either way,
2. The shields used for Clark County 215 are noticeably non-standard, so even if someone had an expectation of county road quality informed by other states, the differences in the shield may negate that,
3. Clark County goes out of its way to never call it a "county road/route", always specifying it as "CC 215" rather than "CR 215".

I wouldn't mind it being I-215 but as long as Clark County maintains it I am fine with it remaining CC 215. Until it gets transferred to NDOT, there is operational benefit in having different shields, since it makes it easier to refer maintenance requests to the correct agency.

With CC 215 I'll be interested to see what happens when the Summerlin Parkway Interchange is complete.  To my knowledge that was the only substandard segment left. 

Do Interstate standards extend to the intersecting roads? The exits from and entrances to CR-215 looked Interstate quality, but the way they intersected the parkway looked a bit behind-the-times.

No, but the CC 215/SR 613 interchange is a Clark County project, so it would be pretty awkward to dump it on NDOT before that project is completed.

It should be noted that Summerlin Parkway was built by the City of Las Vegas so there was probably little real thought of interstate standards at the time. (I'm a little sad we didn't get some sort of silly LV route number and shield to match CC 215 before it got sent to NDOT and became SR 613.)

You mean NV-215? That would have created an interesting bit of trivia.

[Scott5114]

You mean NV-215? That would have created an interesting bit of trivia.

No, I mean, it would have been fun if, in addition to Clark County 215, we had Summerlin Parkway with a City of Las Vegas 295 (or whatever number) designation with a totally different shield design. But, alas, City of LV never did that, so the first route number it ever got was the NV 613 designation when the city handed it off to the state.

[Max Rockatansky]

With CC 215 I'll be interested to see what happens when the Summerlin Parkway Interchange is complete.  To my knowledge that was the only substandard segment left. 

Do Interstate standards extend to the intersecting roads? The exits from and entrances to CR-215 looked Interstate quality, but the way they intersected the parkway looked a bit behind-the-times.

To my knowledge they don't but the precedent seems to have them at least reach another major signed highway. 

[Henry]

That approval by AASHTO to extend I-15 southward on CA 15 was conditional.  The condition was that CA 15 be brought to Interstate standards which never actually happened.  Caltrans then asked for another pre-approval from AASHTO regarding extending I-210 in 1996.  They got denied and haven't bothered submitting another Interstate application since.

What about CA 905 (the future I-905)?

[Max Rockatansky]

That approval by AASHTO to extend I-15 southward on CA 15 was conditional.  The condition was that CA 15 be brought to Interstate standards which never actually happened.  Caltrans then asked for another pre-approval from AASHTO regarding extending I-210 in 1996.  They got denied and haven't bothered submitting another Interstate application since.

What about CA 905 (the future I-905)?

There was never a request to sign it as an Interstate. 

[ClassicHasClass]

That approval by AASHTO to extend I-15 southward on CA 15 was conditional.  The condition was that CA 15 be brought to Interstate standards which never actually happened.  Caltrans then asked for another pre-approval from AASHTO regarding extending I-210 in 1996.  They got denied and haven't bothered submitting another Interstate application since.

What about CA 905 (the future I-905)?

There was never a request to sign it as an Interstate. 

Make CA 117 great again then.

[Max Rockatansky]

That approval by AASHTO to extend I-15 southward on CA 15 was conditional.  The condition was that CA 15 be brought to Interstate standards which never actually happened.  Caltrans then asked for another pre-approval from AASHTO regarding extending I-210 in 1996.  They got denied and haven't bothered submitting another Interstate application since.

What about CA 905 (the future I-905)?

There was never a request to sign it as an Interstate. 

Make CA 117 great again then.

Junipero Serra Boulevard between Daly City and San Bruno was never all that great to being with.