I go car shopping

[noelbotevera]

I had no clue what to title this thread. "Car shopping" was too ambiguous, "Recommend me a car" was too preachy, so I settled on the most awkward option. Meh.

So, after 236,000 miles, my venerable 2013 Toyota Corolla has begun to kick the bucket. The AC system has some major contamination due to the compressor self destructing from old age. The bodywork is rusting due to 13 years up north. I suppose the trip south to Alabama was it's last hurrah, because I can't justify paying to replace the AC and rebuild part of the bodywork. Not to mention parts of the bumper are falling apart...

So, I'm doing a relatively clipped new car search. Can't exactly break the bank right now, but considering interest rates and the used car market, I'd rather get something fresh (and hopefully win the MSRP battle).

I have no interest in "fun" cars -- hell, my parents owned a minivan before the Corolla and I loved it for its practicality -- so I'm thinking the hybrid Corolla is my #1 pick (fuel economy, literally indestructible engine). The Mazda3 is #2 (drivability, engine power, comfort). I'd be willing to hear out a #3 option or arguments against buying one of those two cars.

[Max Rockatansky]

I have a 2024 Corolla Hybrid as a daily driver.  I sold my 2019 base Impreza to my niece fairly recently with similar mileage to your car.  I have no significant complaints about either the Corolla or Impreza. 

[kphoger]

The AC system has some major contamination due to the compressor self destructing from old age.

I replaced my own car's a/c compressor a year ago, when the pulley seized up, and had a friend's friend recharge it in his driveway, but I didn't replace any of the other a/c parts.  Now the a/c moans after being on for several seconds and, even though I did dump some PAG oil during installation, I think it's probably because there are shards of the old compressor's guts clogging up the line somewhere such as the orifice tube, causing it to starve for oil.  So, because I don't want to shell out the money to have the whole system replaced, when that system is not critical for the operation of the vehicle, we simply do without a/c.  When it rains, I do turn on the defogger, which uses the a/c, but only for long enough to clear the windows, and then I turn it off again.  I usually get home from work sweaty, but whatever.

[noelbotevera]

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Normally, I'd accept the loss of the A/C system or repair it if it was a small leak. In my opinion, since this car is already up there in age and has changed hands many times (family car -> brother's car -> sister's car -> mine; 200k+ miles in 10 years), I think this is the straw that broke the camel's back for me. There were already other problems beyond the AC that needed to be addressed, and I'm just unwilling to deal with the summer heat without AC.

Should I be more mechanically adept and learn how to repair more car stuff by myself? Probably. Do I have the time, willpower, or interest? No.

[Max Rockatansky]

Repairing the AC compressor clutch in my wife's Forester wasn't super difficult with help with my brother in law (an actual mechanic).  The problem is finding friends and family with the knowledge or willingness to help fix things like that.

[formulanone]

The Honda Civic Sport is also a fine choice in the same form factor. Would hold off on a VW Jetta unless you "love it" but they're more mayhem-prone when it comes to reliability.

Bear in mind, if you're financing, they will ask how long you've lived in an area, and that can affect your credit rating a tiny bit.

Usually all of the brands offer some sort of loyalty bonus for the same brand you're trading in, because it makes the brand look good. Usually it is offered in lieu of taking financing and/or trade.

I'm personally a little partial to the Mazda 3 but have also had the Corolla (standard engine configuration) as rentals and they're both slightly different takes on the same design theory. The Mazda might be a little more sporty but a hybrid Corolla will outscore it in fuel economy. Toyota is known for marking up vehicles whenever they think there's "market demand". I've taken them both on all-day trips and they're fine cars.

Avoid an extended warranty. They'll both try to package that in with other "benefits" you may never need. Sure, an oil change is $80 now but four free LOFs and your average claim might be $400-500, and very rarely does anyone have two serious claims throughout the life of the service contract. Your chances of "coming out ahead" is like 1-of-100.

[1995hoo]

If you buy any accessories—like if they charge extra for floor mats or wheel locks or some such—pay for those separately, rather than adding them to the loan. Why pay interest on those kinds of things?

[Rothman]

The AC system has some major contamination due to the compressor self destructing from old age.

I replaced my own car's a/c compressor a year ago, when the pulley seized up, and had a friend's friend recharge it in his driveway, but I didn't replace any of the other a/c parts.  Now the a/c moans after being on for several seconds and, even though I did dump some PAG oil during installation, I think it's probably because there are shards of the old compressor's guts clogging up the line somewhere such as the orifice tube, causing it to starve for oil.  So, because I don't want to shell out the money to have the whole system replaced, when that system is not critical for the operation of the vehicle, we simply do without a/c.  When it rains, I do turn on the defogger, which uses the a/c, but only for long enough to clear the windows, and then I turn it off again.  I usually get home from work sweaty, but whatever.

Ya gotta do whachu gotta do.

[jeffandnicole]

I have no interest in "fun" cars -- hell, my parents owned a minivan before the Corolla and I loved it for its practicality -- so I'm thinking the hybrid Corolla is my #1 pick (fuel economy, literally indestructible engine). The Mazda3 is #2 (drivability, engine power, comfort). I'd be willing to hear out a #3 option or arguments against buying one of those two cars.

I have a 2025 Honda Civic sedan hybrid sport edition, which gets over 50 mpg in the summer if I don't have a lead foot. Similar to the Corolla, I should get many miles out of it.

If I have any complaints, it's that the seat is a bit low to get into and out of. Otherwise, good car with great gas mileage.

[Scott5114]

With fuel costs the way they are, do you have any specific reason to not consider an electric or a plug-in hybrid?

[Max Rockatansky]

Upfront cost is what kept me from being interested in a full EV on my last round of car buying.  At the time there wasn't much of a used EV market and I'm to understand that has since changed.  Apparently EVs lost value at about the same pace as luxury cars do.  There probably is some steals out there to be had.

[thenetwork]

I lease a 2026 Kia K4 with the lower level GT Line trim (non-turbo). 

It is one of the few compact sedans that is all-gas powered, but it has ample trunk space, headroom, and is somewhat sporty.

I just hit 4,000 miles on the first year anniversary (primarily local driving) but I still average about 35 MPG city/42 MPG highway.

For around $26-28K, you get a lot of extras and other cool features as well.

I did about 3 months of research on sedans, and though it's not the top-ranked model in it's class (as it is a brand new model which replaced the Forte), it does cost several thousand dollars less than the Toyota/Honda/Nissan sedan equivalents with the same features.

I love my Kia K4.

[noelbotevera]

With fuel costs the way they are, do you have any specific reason to not consider an electric or a plug-in hybrid?

Long story short, I'm pretty sure I lose the savings between electric and gas because I have to pay to charge at my apartment. I remember doing the math once, and even if I got a subscription or whatever, I'm still paying overhead fees to use the chargers at my apartment. If I could install my own charger, then I'd save money in the long run.

I do live near somewhere where I could get free level 2 charging, but it's a grocery store parking lot and I don't want to run the risk of getting fined / towed every time I try to charge overnight. 

Finally, my job doesn't have chargers installed.

If I was in a condo with a garage, I would've bought an EV and installed my own charger (there are still tax rebates for charging infrastructure which includes home charging). Alas.

[formulanone]

With fuel costs the way they are, do you have any specific reason to not consider an electric or a plug-in hybrid?

Long story short, I'm pretty sure I lose the savings between electric and gas because I have to pay to charge at my apartment. I remember doing the math once, and even if I got a subscription or whatever, I'm still paying overhead fees to use the chargers at my apartment. If I could install my own charger, then I'd save money in the long run.

I do live near somewhere where I could get free level 2 charging, but it's a grocery store parking lot and I don't want to run the risk of getting fined / towed every time I try to charge overnight. 

Finally, my job doesn't have chargers installed.

If I was in a condo with a garage, I would've bought an EV and installed my own charger (there are still tax rebates for charging infrastructure which includes home charging). Alas.

EV infrastructure in the Huntsville-Tennessee Valley area is spotty at best. There's like 2 spaces at the airport but that's long term parking, so someone's probably leaving it hooked up for 10 days. There's a sprinkling of EV spaces in some parking lots but I'm not aware of banks of EV chargers around town (although I've never explored the Redstone Arsenal).

If you can't hook it up at home you're not saving much. The few times I've rented EVs and tried to use the hotel chargers, one or both of them was out of commission, and nobody seemed to care.

[Scott5114]

With fuel costs the way they are, do you have any specific reason to not consider an electric or a plug-in hybrid?

Long story short, I'm pretty sure I lose the savings between electric and gas because I have to pay to charge at my apartment. I remember doing the math once, and even if I got a subscription or whatever, I'm still paying overhead fees to use the chargers at my apartment. If I could install my own charger, then I'd save money in the long run.

I do live near somewhere where I could get free level 2 charging, but it's a grocery store parking lot and I don't want to run the risk of getting fined / towed every time I try to charge overnight. 

Finally, my job doesn't have chargers installed.

If I was in a condo with a garage, I would've bought an EV and installed my own charger (there are still tax rebates for charging infrastructure which includes home charging). Alas.

EV infrastructure in the Huntsville-Tennessee Valley area is spotty at best. There's like 2 spaces at the airport but that's long term parking, so someone's probably leaving it hooked up for 10 days. There's a sprinkling of EV spaces in some parking lots but I'm not aware of banks of EV chargers around town (although I've never explored the Redstone Arsenal).

Yeah, sadly, EV works best for someone who has their own garage so they can just plug the car in at home and not worry about it (even if you can't afford electrical work, you can plug it into a standard-ass wall outlet and it will charge, even if it takes a few hours). "I live in an apartment and thus would have to care about EV infrastructure" is unfortunately a pretty valid reason to not get an EV.

[1995hoo]

Yeah, sadly, EV works best for someone who has their own garage so they can just plug the car in at home and not worry about it (even if you can't afford electrical work, you can plug it into a standard-ass wall outlet and it will charge, even if it takes a few hours). "I live in an apartment and thus would have to care about EV infrastructure" is unfortunately a pretty valid reason to not get an EV.

I'd suggest that applies to plug-in hybrids as well. A practical way to view the difference between a plug-in hybrid and a "regular" hybrid is that the "regular" hybrid is a gasoline-powered car that uses an electric motor to extend its range and improve its fuel economy (and generates its own electricity to replenish the battery), whereas a plug-in hybrid is primarily an electric vehicle that uses a gas engine to extend its range and needs to be plugged in to charge the battery. While you could run a plug-in hybrid solely on gas without plugging it in (and you might well need to do that if you make a long all-day drive, like DC to Florida), it's not the best use of the vehicle because, in addition to wasting the added cost of the electric motor, you'd be wasting gas hauling around the added weight of the electric motor and related systems that you're not using. True, the car does generate some electricity through regenerative braking, but not enough to charge the system fully. To benefit from a plug-in hybrid, you have to be able to plug it in.

A lady in the condo development in the next neighborhood over from us has a Prius Prime (plug-in version of the Prius). I saw her getting out of the car one day and tried to ask her about how often she has to put gas in it and how much of her driving is on the electric motor versus the gas engine, but she didn't really understand the question—turned out she had an Eastern European accent and I'm guessing she didn't understand what I wanted to know. Part of what I found interesting is that she lives in a condo with surface parking and nowhere to plug it in, so I wondered whether she plugs in at work or just uses it as a gas car.

The other thing that I'd like to hear more about with plug-in hybrids is how they deal with the potential problem of stale gas if you drive on electric power enough that you don't fill up very often. Car and Driver said the gas tanks are sealed even more tightly than on normal cars to prevent fuel oxidization, but they didn't mention anything about whether the car's electronics are sophisticated enough to know whether to turn on the gas engine periodically to cycle the fuel even if it wouldn't otherwise be needed.

[vdeane]

As I understand it, a plug-in hybrid that can't plug in just acts like a regular hybrid... which might be why regular hybrids seem less common these days.  I wonder if that will change if the EV tax goes through.  I can't imagine someone would want to pay tax on a PHEV if they can't plug it in.

[Max Rockatansky]

As I understand it, a plug-in hybrid that can't plug in just acts like a regular hybrid... which might be why regular hybrids seem less common these days.  I wonder if that will change if the EV tax goes through.  I can't imagine someone would want to pay tax on a PHEV if they can't plug it in.

Regular hybrids have a huge market demand at present moment.  Toyota in particular sells a ton of them. 

[kphoger]

EV works best for someone who has their own garage

Or just go ghetto:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/rFPJqgcLx2maEKMKA

[1995hoo]

As I understand it, a plug-in hybrid that can't plug in just acts like a regular hybrid... which might be why regular hybrids seem less common these days.  I wonder if that will change if the EV tax goes through.  I can't imagine someone would want to pay tax on a PHEV if they can't plug it in.

Here's the Car and Driver article I mentioned earlier, if you're interested in reading it. One of the things they discuss is how (and why) a plug-in hybrid is less fuel-efficient overall when operated as a hybrid (as opposed to when operated purely in electric mode) than an equivalent "standard" hybrid. They used the obvious comparison of a Prius versus a Prius Prime as a benchmark. Part of the article is outdated in that it talks about the now-repealed EV tax credit, but that doesn't render the rest of the discussion obsolete.

And I see the last paragraph, which I had forgotten about, addresses the issue I raised about stale fuel.

[dlsterner]

With fuel costs the way they are, do you have any specific reason to not consider an electric or a plug-in hybrid?

Long story short, I'm pretty sure I lose the savings between electric and gas because I have to pay to charge at my apartment. I remember doing the math once, and even if I got a subscription or whatever, I'm still paying overhead fees to use the chargers at my apartment. If I could install my own charger, then I'd save money in the long run.

I do live near somewhere where I could get free level 2 charging, but it's a grocery store parking lot and I don't want to run the risk of getting fined / towed every time I try to charge overnight. 

Finally, my job doesn't have chargers installed.

If I was in a condo with a garage, I would've bought an EV and installed my own charger (there are still tax rebates for charging infrastructure which includes home charging). Alas.

If you can't charge at home (either in a garage or car port) you probably don't want an EV until you do.  And as far as using a "standard ass wall connector" (as Scott so eloquently put it), that depends on what your expected daily mileage will be.  Under 40-ish miles a day, ok - but if you drive much more than that you won't completely replace what you used every night (well with 120V/15A anyway unless you have an unused clothes dryer outlet).  I drive about 60-ish miles a day so I installed a Level 2 charger for my EV.

(I've seen YouTube clips of people actually plugging into their living room and running the cable out the window.  Seriously?)

Another point to consider with an EV - if I remember, you are a young male?  Check the financial hit with your auto insurance.  Mine went up a decent bit, even being a 60-ish male.

[Scott5114]

EV works best for someone who has their own garage

Or just go ghetto:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/rFPJqgcLx2maEKMKA

That's a lot of copper to leave unsecured.

[Dirt Roads]

Regular hybrids have a huge market demand at present moment.  Toyota in particular sells a ton of them. 

Here's where I'm going to pitch hybrid all-wheel-drive technology.  Those that have independent motors on each hub have the added advantage that certain hubs can flip into regenerative mode while the others are still serving as electric motors.  That results in a partial recharging while driving through curves, but more importantly, it pretty much guarantees that the vehicle will slip into four-wheel drive mode much quicker than a traditional AWD vehicle.

[Rothman]

Regular hybrids have a huge market demand at present moment.  Toyota in particular sells a ton of them. 

Here's where I'm going to pitch hybrid all-wheel-drive technology.  Those that have independent motors on each hub have the added advantage that certain hubs can flip into regenerative mode while the others are still serving as electric motors.  That results in a partial recharging while driving through curves, but more importantly, it pretty much guarantees that the vehicle will slip into four-wheel drive mode much quicker than a traditional AWD vehicle.

Meh.  I've got a hybrid AWD vehicle.  It is only AWD at low speeds.

[kphoger]

a "standard ass wall connector" (as Scott so eloquently put it)

I think he's talking about these.