The Return of the Sedan?

[Max Rockatansky]

I mean, I've seen crank windows before, but I was very young, so only as a passenger.  How did people even use them while driving?

Left hand for the driver door and a reach over with your right at the opportune moment for the passenger door.

Isn't it bad to lean over to reach the crank while driving?  I'm thinking of situations like accelerating away from a toll booth or customs.  Or even getting in to customs.  It feels like I don't even have time to put the parking brake on and shift my car into neutral before the border guards get irritated that I'm taking too long to hand over my documents and start their interrogation - and that's less than half the time I remember crank windows taking.

I never found it to be a big deal to manually crank a window while driving when I lived in Chicago.  Back then I had a 92 Sun Bird and frequently used the Skyway.  It isn't too difficult to crank a driver's window open and closed faster than an electric motor can. 

[1995hoo]

Depends on the size of your car. In my 1982 Accord, I never had any trouble cranking the passenger-side front window while the car was moving. It was a very small car. In my 1977 Granada, I never considered trying it. Car was just bigger and clunkier, didn't handle well.

The 1982 Accord was the last car I had that didn't have power windows, although I've driven a few over the years since then (rentals in Mexico and my brother's old 1974 Beetle).

[Max Rockatansky]

My wife's family has three vehicles in Jalisco that we drive.  The only one that has powered windows is the 1996 Suburban.  It was a PIA when the driver's window motor died on a day trip when I was driving on Autopistas.  I had to keep opening the door to pay my tolls and I had no air because the AC is dead.  My father in law and I ended up shipping the broken motor up to Guadalajara to get it fixed the next morning.  It hasn't failed again after about two years. 

The Optra and the F150 both have manually cranked windows.  None of the vehicles have a working AC and the Optra has a manual transmission.  You'd be amazed at how fast you can become accustomed to driving vehicles lacking modern convenience features when left with no other options.

The last work vehicle that I had with manually cranked windows was a Nissan Versa (2018 model?).  I'm kind of surprised that our new 2026 Chevy Express van has powered front windows.  I'm to understand that was a feature recently added to the Express line.

[Rothman]

Wonder what vdeane would think about the high beam switch being a button on the floor...along with the crank windows..

[1995hoo]

Wonder what vdeane would think about the high beam switch being a button on the floor...along with the crank windows..

Heh. My 1977 Granada had crank windows, a manual transmission, a pedal-operated parking brake, and a foot-operated high-beam switch. The guy who did the state inspection hated that car.

[interstatefan990]

We're a hard "no" on EVs until there's more efficient mechanisms for charging on long trips...

Do you mean faster charging? Charging capabilities have advanced a lot over the years, especially with Tesla Superchargers, and I'm not sure if they can get any quicker without some sort of next-gen battery tech. The fastest ones nowadays get something like 100-200 miles of range in under a half hour.

True. I can't help but wonder, though, how many younger people have never even seen crank windows.

The 2024 Jeep Wrangler came with crank windows in some low level configurations.

Something I've always wondered is what happens to the vehicle when/if the hybrid motor dies?  Does it brick the vehicle or can it continue running off the internal combustion engine alone?

I think some hybrids are designed where the electric motor provides all the actual power to the wheels and the internal combustion engine only acts as a generator to charge the battery. Those would definitely brick.

It isn't too difficult to crank a driver's window open and closed faster than an electric motor can. 

What a crank window can't provide, though, is the one-touch up and down function that power windows can. Super convenient for when you need to grab something quickly while the windows are opening/closing, like at a drive thru or key-fob-enabled gate.

[kphoger]

Isn't it bad to lean over to reach the crank while driving?  I'm thinking of situations like accelerating away from a toll booth or customs.  Or even getting in to customs.  It feels like I don't even have time to put the parking brake on and shift my car into neutral before the border guards get irritated that I'm taking too long to hand over my documents and start their interrogation - and that's less than half the time I remember crank windows taking.

The driver's side window??  No, it's no problem at all.  It doesn't take much more time than a button, honestly.

Heck, I've driven a vehicle or two with a driver's side window that didn't work at all.  And I've gone through both manned toll booths and fast-food drive-through windows like that.  Just pull forward a little bit farther than usual and open the door.  I've gotten the impression that they're used to that kind of thing.

[Max Rockatansky]

I can count the number of times I've used a drive thru this year on one hand.  I drive into the gate of a military base about five times a week though.  Even still I could save a couple dollars on the price of a car via sacrificing power windows I would do it.

[Scott5114]

I've gotten the impression that they're used to that kind of thing.

Used to it, yes. Like it, no. Having the door in the way makes it a lot harder to hand off cash with coins or a tray of drinks without spilling them. (It wouldn't be such a problem if people would pull away from the window enough that the door could open far enough to not be in the way. But nobody ever did that, they'd just pull to the exact same spot that they would if their window worked, then open the door and expect you to phase your arms through it.)

If your car window doesn't work, go the fuck inside.

[interstatefan990]

I can count the number of times I've used a drive thru this year on one hand.  I drive into the gate of a military base about five times a week though.  Even still I could save a couple dollars on the price of a car via sacrificing power windows I would do it.

I mean sure, some people will have less use for it than others, but it's still great to have. Not everyone needs an eyeglass holder in their car, but for those that do, it's very convenient.

[Max Rockatansky]

I can count the number of times I've used a drive thru this year on one hand.  I drive into the gate of a military base about five times a week though.  Even still I could save a couple dollars on the price of a car via sacrificing power windows I would do it.

I mean sure, some people will have less use for it than others, but it's still great to have. Not everyone needs an eyeglass holder in their car, but for those that do, it's very convenient.

Is not the point of this thread to ponder over the possible return of cheap sedans?  With that line of thought, why would I want anything optional I don't feel to be necessary?  There is probably $2,000-$3,000 worth of standard equipment in my base 2024 Corolla SE which would have once been optional in my lifetime.

[interstatefan990]

I can count the number of times I've used a drive thru this year on one hand.  I drive into the gate of a military base about five times a week though.  Even still I could save a couple dollars on the price of a car via sacrificing power windows I would do it.

I mean sure, some people will have less use for it than others, but it's still great to have. Not everyone needs an eyeglass holder in their car, but for those that do, it's very convenient.

Is not the point of this thread to ponder over the possible return of cheap sedans?  With that line of thought, why would I want anything optional I don't feel to be necessary?  There is probably $2,000-$3,000 worth of standard equipment in my base 2024 Corolla SE which would have once been optional in my lifetime.

No, not really, it was about sedans taking back a larger share of the market as opposed to SUVs, though I suppose price has become a side discussion. But of course there's going to be more standard features in cars nowadays. What are car companies going to do, release the same model year after year and keep everything optional? Competition dictates that raising the bar in terms of features, even those some don't care for, is necessary to keep up with the times. That unfortunately translates to higher prices (as a contributing factor).

There's always the used car market if you need it.

[Max Rockatansky]

The used car market has been dog shit since Cash for Clunks ruined it.  Taking all those affordable cars and putting them into crushers is something the used market has never recovered from.  Used vehicles are nowhere near the bargain they once were and probably won't be for a long time. 

Paying 40-50k for a new commuting vehicle no matter what type is something I have a hard time finding acceptable.  I use my commuters up in 8-10 years and see no reason to waste more money on them more than absolutely necessary.  About the only thing I'll pay extra for is proven build quality since they often pays you back in the long run. 

GM and Ford in the recent past at least had small car offerings that undercut the price of Japanese manufacturers.  I often could find cheap and plentiful parts to fix those lower build quality domestic vehicles.  Both GM and Ford are chasing mostly high margin customers nowadays with the same bad build quality.  Until something changes drastically I don't see myself buying domestic again anytime soon. 

Stellantis seems to have no solid plan for the dying Dodge brand.  Jeep has some of the worst reliability scores out there and Ram is all trucks. 

And yes, but someone says it I'm aware Nissan has had massive quality issues in recent years (especially with their CVTs).  I'm saddened to see Honda seems to be slipping and making some really oddly GM-like decisions with their model lineup.  Toyota and Subaru seem to be mostly where we (my wife and I) have been spending our money.  My old Impreza has pretty stout and so far I haven't had any issues with my current Corolla. 

[PColumbus73]

And yes, but someone says it I'm aware Nissan has had massive quality issues in recent years (especially with their CVTs).  I'm saddened to see Honda seems to be slipping and making some really oddly GM-like decisions with their model lineup.  Toyota and Subaru seem to be mostly where we (my wife and I) have been spending our money.  My old Impreza has pretty stout and so far I haven't had any issues with my current Corolla. 

I never had a problem with my 07 Corolla. The only issue was driving from SC to OH where it would struggle to get up the mountains and was generally not as comfortable for the long trips.

[1995hoo]

True. I can't help but wonder, though, how many younger people have never even seen crank windows.

The 2024 Jeep Wrangler came with crank windows in some low level configurations.

Interesting. Thanks. I didn't know that—I more or less figured that crank windows seemed like they were probably a thing of the past just because I hadn't heard of any vehicles still having them. With that said, though, it doesn't change my overall thought to which you responded because I think it's probably reasonable to assume that most people (regardless of age) have not ridden in a Jeep Wrangler (seen one on the road, sure; ridden in one, probably less likely).

I've gotten the impression that they're used to that kind of thing.

Used to it, yes. Like it, no. Having the door in the way makes it a lot harder to hand off cash with coins or a tray of drinks without spilling them. (It wouldn't be such a problem if people would pull away from the window enough that the door could open far enough to not be in the way. But nobody ever did that, they'd just pull to the exact same spot that they would if their window worked, then open the door and expect you to phase your arms through it.)

If your car window doesn't work, go the fuck inside.

I remember when we were kids and the driver's window in my mother's Volvo station wagon broke (at least it was in the up position). She wanted to go to the drive-up window at the bank, so she had me sit directly behind her and use my window to put the stuff in the drawer and to take whatever the teller gave back to us. The teller seemed baffled until I told her the power window was broken. Power windows were not nearly as ubiquitous in the early 1980s as they are today, of course, so there was a reasonable chance the teller hadn't seen that happen before.

[Max Rockatansky]

And yes, but someone says it I'm aware Nissan has had massive quality issues in recent years (especially with their CVTs).  I'm saddened to see Honda seems to be slipping and making some really oddly GM-like decisions with their model lineup.  Toyota and Subaru seem to be mostly where we (my wife and I) have been spending our money.  My old Impreza has pretty stout and so far I haven't had any issues with my current Corolla.

I never had a problem with my 07 Corolla. The only issue was driving from SC to OH where it would struggle to get up the mountains and was generally not as comfortable for the long trips.

My wife has an 09 which she stopped driving at about 250,000.  We dropped it off with my father in law who drives it around Firebaugh.  It had a leaking head gasket but still runs fine otherwise.  I don't recall it being much of an issue to drive on mountain grades out here in California.  Maybe 2014 Sonic on the other hand had lots of issues with mountains (mostly brake related).

[GaryV]

Wonder what vdeane would think about the high beam switch being a button on the floor...along with the crank windows..

You mean my dad pulling on that invisible cord above his head (like a steam engine whistle) wasn't what turned the brights on and off?

[Max Rockatansky]

Anyone else ever driven an older car that had plastic clip-in windows?

[Rothman]

Anyone else ever driven an older car that had plastic clip-in windows?

Yes.

[kphoger]

I've gotten the impression that they're used to that kind of thing.

Used to it, yes. Like it, no. ... If your car window doesn't work, go the fuck inside.

This is only a solution if it's even possible to go inside.  Can't do that at a typical Sonic, for example:  it's either pull into a slot or use the drive-through.  Or if the lobby is closed for the evening but the drive-through is still open.  Or if they only have the drive-through open because it's a holiday and they're running half staff.  Or if the government decides nobody can go inside restaurants because of a virus.  Or whatever.  I've used a drive-through plenty of times where going inside was not an option.

What are car companies going to do, release the same model year after year and keep everything optional?

You have no idea how happy that would make me.

I more or less figured that crank windows seemed like they were probably a thing of the past just because I hadn't heard of any vehicles still having them.

I'm at work, and there are multiple work vans out in the lot right now with window cranks.

I don't remember exactly which models we have, but here's an example photo I found online for a 2019 Nissan NV1500 cargo van:

[kphoger]

Also, for what it's worth, you can still get a Ram 2500 or 3500 with manual window cranks in the base (Tradesman) model.

[kkt]

If you're approaching a staffed (!) toll booth or customs, you only need to crank the driver's door, which is usually easy enough while steering the car with your right hand.  If you've got a passenger they can crank down their own window if customs wants to talk to them too.

[vdeane]

If you're approaching a staffed (!) toll booth or customs, you only need to crank the driver's door, which is usually easy enough while steering the car with your right hand.  If you've got a passenger they can crank down their own window if customs wants to talk to them too.

You still have to lean down though.  I don't know if all cars were like this, but on the Ford Taurus my parents had when I was little, the crank would go practically all the way to the floor!

Even the power windows that didn't have the one click feature on my old Accord were annoying, but then, I drive a manual, so having to keep one hand on the window and the other on the wheel left none for the shifter.

Granted, I'm not clamoring for the return of uber-cheap baseline cars with "no frills".  Although I wouldn't mind if car development had frozen at the level of the my 2014 Civic.  It's the perfect balance between modern convenience and avoiding all the techno-gizmos and surveillance of modern cars.

[1995hoo]

Depends on your arm and the car. I didn't have to bend over to crank the driver's window on my 1982 Accord. But that was a very small car.

[Max Rockatansky]

Considering several of us regularly take photos or videos while driving I would think that having to move slightly to crank a window wouldn't be that big of a deal.