The Return of the Sedan?

[vdeane]

Yeah, those are some pretty narrow roads that a small car would make much easier. But going back to the original question of whether smaller cars have a lesser margin for error, I'd still say the rule applies. The majority of the population won't be driving on these roads, and I think it's correct to say that the risk posed by being surrounded by cars with much more mass is considerably greater than the risk posed by having a car that is a bit less comfortable to maneuver on narrow roads.

What about narrow roads like this?  I also find parking is much more difficult in larger cars - heck, I already have to often back out/back in at least once with my Civic, and that would probably be much worse in a larger vehicle.

[Max Rockatansky]

One of the biggest advantages of getting a small sedan is having "more" of a margin for error in tight spaces and narrow roads. 

But less of a margin of safety if that space closes.

Compared to the shit boxes I used to drive (and still do in Mexico) when I was younger pretty much everything offered now is pretty safe.  It isn't as though any of these modern cars are lacking ABS or things air bags. 

[PColumbus73]

I've always preferred sedans and station wagons over SUVs and trucks. I had an '07 Corolla for about 10 years, then decided I wanted a comfortable highway cruiser for my trips to Ohio and back. As a commuter car, the Corolla is fantastic, but on I-77 going up Fancy Gap, VA, it struggled.

I have a 2015 Avalon now and it fits the sweet spot.

[kphoger]

I had trouble backing up for years...until I had to drive a moving van from Oklahoma to Nevada. No backup camera, no rear view mirror, just side mirrors. And you know what? Once I was forced to learn how to use the side mirrors to back up that giant van, turns out that skill works on regular cars too!

What made driving a car in reverse easy for me was driving forklift for a living for several years.  Well over 50% of my forklift driving was spent driving in reverse.

[Max Rockatansky]

The only vehicle I owned that was difficult to back up was my 2010 Camaro SS.  The trunk lid was so high up that you really didn't have a good perspective on where you were at.  My 1997 Chevy CK 1500 was easier to back up a considerable margin.

[kphoger]

I should say, my next job after the one that involved a lot of forklift driving was (except for a brief stint through a temp agency) one that had me driving a box truck.  Like Scott, that gave me a lot of experience reversing with nothing but side mirrors.  Still to this day, 18 years later, I back into driveways and parking spaces with side mirrors only.

[Max Rockatansky]

I should say, my next job after the one that involved a lot of forklift driving was (except for a brief stint through a temp agency) one that had me driving a box truck.  Like Scott, that gave me a lot of experience reversing with nothing but side mirrors.  Still to this day, 18 years later, I back into driveways and parking spaces with side mirrors only.

Funny, our driver wrecked our box truck last week and just reported it yesterday.  Specifically be ran the box into the canopy of a bus stop.  Luckily the bus stop didn't collapse but I'm shuddering to think how much it is going to cost to fix the damaged box.  The box was pushed on the left front by about a foot and warped seven panels.

FWIW our driver did end up with a ticket for feeling the scene.  Even if HR decides to keep him he won't be driving anything for us going forward.

Also, three years ago he backed that same box truck into one of our canopies.  On that particular day he did call the police and got a way lesser citation.  I guess he can't back up or drive forward.

[kphoger]

Funny, our driver wrecked our box truck last week and just reported it yesterday.  Specifically be ran the box into the canopy of a bus stop.  Luckily the bus stop didn't collapse but I'm shuddering to think how much it is going to cost to fix the damaged box.  The box was pushed on the left front by about a foot and warped seven panels.

FWIW our driver did end up with a ticket for feeling the scene.  Even if HR decides to keep him he won't be driving anything for us going forward.

Also, three years ago he backed that same box truck into one of our canopies.  On that particular day he did call the police and got a way lesser citation.  I guess he can't back up or drive forward.

Yeah, people aren't used to watching overhead clearances.  We had a driver who was accused by a hospital of damaging a canopy when he was making a delivery there.  He claimed he wasn't the one who did it, though, and that the hospital just figured he was the most likely culprit.  After the incident, the owner of the company (who was known far and wide as real asshole) made all of us drivers sign a paper stating that we wouldn't drive under any structures with less than a 20-foot clearance.  I bit my tongue about how that would prevent us from backing up to our own dock, or driving under any stoplights or railroads, or using the Interstate—and just went ahead and signed my name.

Moving trucks at fast food drive-through is another common one.

[Max Rockatansky]

Funny, our driver wrecked our box truck last week and just reported it yesterday.  Specifically be ran the box into the canopy of a bus stop.  Luckily the bus stop didn't collapse but I'm shuddering to think how much it is going to cost to fix the damaged box.  The box was pushed on the left front by about a foot and warped seven panels.

FWIW our driver did end up with a ticket for feeling the scene.  Even if HR decides to keep him he won't be driving anything for us going forward.

Also, three years ago he backed that same box truck into one of our canopies.  On that particular day he did call the police and got a way lesser citation.  I guess he can't back up or drive forward.

Yeah, people aren't used to watching overhead clearances.  We had a driver who was accused by a hospital of damaging a canopy when he was making a delivery there.  He claimed he wasn't the one who did it, though, and that the hospital just figured he was the most likely culprit.  After the incident, the owner of the company (who was known far and wide as real asshole) made all of us drivers sign a paper stating that we wouldn't drive under any structures with less than a 20-foot clearance.  I bit my tongue about how that would prevent us from backing up to our own dock, or driving under any stoplights or railroads, or using the Interstate—and just went ahead and signed my name.

Moving trucks at fast food drive-through is another common one.

The issue with my guy is that he's just a bad driver.  He's had about ten years of box truck driving experience but he keeps wrecking or causing damage.  The problem I've had was that his manager was a pushover.  Fortunately she recently retired and won't be around to cover up or minimize this.

[kphoger]

The issue with my guy is that he's just a bad driver.  He's had about ten years of box truck driving experience but he keeps wrecking or causing damage.

In my first week on the job, I swiped a parked car in a parking lot.  I thought I could squeeze through a gap and wasn't yet used the tail end swinging wide.  The next day, the owner of the company (widely known in the region as a big asshole, if you recall) hailed me into his office.  All my co-workers figured I was a goner for sure.  He read the riot act, of course, and then asked me who I thought should have to pay for the damages.

— Honestly?  I'd say... that's what you have insurance for.

I kept my job, because my co-workers had vouched that I was otherwise a really good worker.

[interstatefan990]

Who is going around taking their small children with them to store parking lots? Not a small number of people.

Who would think it's a good idea to leave children unattended in Las Vegas?

Who would think it's a good idea to leave children unattended in any city?

After what happened to the Charger a sedan with V8 offerings is far from the worst fate for the Camaro.

FWIW, I do like the style of the new Charger (especially the coupe).  It actually kind of looks like a Coke Bottle Charger of old.  The LX and LD variants never really fit the look of the nameplate.

The front end of those new Chargers looks like an afterthought, but the body sculpting is nice.

What about narrow roads like this?  I also find parking is much more difficult in larger cars - heck, I already have to often back out/back in at least once with my Civic, and that would probably be much worse in a larger vehicle.

That's narrow, but not "buy a sedan instead of an SUV so that it can fit" narrow. See the black Lexus SUV in that GSV shot, it's a little tight but far from unmanageable.

Compared to the shit boxes I used to drive (and still do in Mexico) when I was younger pretty much everything offered now is pretty safe.  It isn't as though any of these modern cars are lacking ABS or things air bags.

All the modern safety in the world won't beat basic physics: lower mass = weaker protection.

After the incident, the owner of the company (who was known far and wide as real asshole) made all of us drivers sign a paper stating that we wouldn't drive under any structures with less than a 20-foot clearance.

A 20 foot clearance? How in the hell would you plan a route to precisely avoid anything below that? I'm sure even truck-based GPS systems don't have an option for that. Most semis can do with 14 feet.

[Max Rockatansky]

I'd also be lying to you if I said that "safety" in the top five things I first considered when buying an automobile.  The apparent lack of safety often tends to be enticing when I'm looking for new back roads to try out (irony being I'm statistically safer on back roads).

If anything there are quite a few modern safety features found on new cars that aren't exactly essential.  Back up cameras, adaptive cruise control and lane assistance all come to mind. 

These shit boxes I'm referring to in Mexico are the family 1996 F150 and 1999 Suburban.  The F150 is a Mexican market truck and I want to say only has two airbags.  The missing part of the transmission linkage locks me out of 1st gear descend some of the mountain roads in Jalisco. 

The Suburban was my father in law's daily in the U.S. until he retired it down in Mexico.  It was in a rollover accident and now has several things which haven't worked right since the body was repaired.  The starter motor in particular tends to not shut off until the engine gets warm for some reason. 

I tried to buy a retired Corolla cab last year to supplement our bigger vehicles in Mexico (the deal fell through).  Trying to get a Suburban or F150 down one lane cobblestone streets can be quite the effort.

We did have a 1998 Dodge Ram 1500 with an eight foot bed until recently.  When I was driving it four years ago in town the instrument cluster died and never got fixed.  It got sold to the neighbors across the street as a work truck.

Also, on occasion I have the displeasure of driving the Mexican market Chevy Optra which belongs to my wife's cousin.  That car was also in a wreck and had the body rebuilt.  The 1st gear idle for some reason is too low and wants to drop to about 600 RPM at standstill.  The engine will start to starve unless you keep your right foot slightly on the gas pedal during stops.  I hate driving it since there is rarely the occasion to go above 2nd gear in town.  If it was an automatic transmission it would be about situationally perfect. 

[kphoger]

A 20 foot clearance? How in the hell would you plan a route to precisely avoid anything below that? I'm sure even truck-based GPS systems don't have an option for that. Most semis can do with 14 feet.

It was obvious that he had just pulled a number out of his butt that sounded good, but I wasn't about to call him out on it in front of everyone, especially while he was still grumpy.

[interstatefan990]

Also, on occasion I have the displeasure of driving the Mexican market Chevy Optra which belongs to my wife's cousin.  That car was also in a wreck and had the body rebuilt.  The 1st gear idle for some reason is too low and wants to drop to about 600 RPM at standstill.  The engine will start to starve unless you keep your right foot slightly on the gas pedal during stops.  I hate driving it since there is rarely the occasion to go above 2nd gear in town.  If it was an automatic transmission it would be about situationally perfect. 

You should see this crash test video. The cheapest Nissan sedan sold in Mexico versus the cheapest Nissan sedan sold in the US. The American-spec wins by far in terms of safety.

Really goes to show you how it's not just about car size, but also how the car is built. And that (at least at the time of this test) the standards can be far different between Mexican-spec and US-spec models.

It was obvious that he had just pulled a number out of his butt that sounded good, but I wasn't about to call him out on it in front of everyone, especially while he was still grumpy.

It was the part about signing something that gets me. Be dumb all you want, but don't make someone else attach their name to it, especially when driving and being responsible for a company truck. Maybe that's just my inner lawyer speaking.