The Return of the Sedan?

[interstatefan990]

Half of U.S. teens now prefer sedans over SUVs, study shows

Interesting new study showing about half of teens in the US would prefer a sedan over an SUV. This gives me hope that the SUV craze may end someday, as it makes sense that children don't want to grow up and drive the same kinds of cars that their parents drove them around in.

These teens' preferences could shift over time, but I'm really interested to see how consumer tastes change in the future as new generations get behind the wheel. A lot of wonderful sedans (especially American ones) have been lost over the past few decades as car manufacturers catered to the very high demand for SUVs. Not everyone needs to be driving a 5000 pound tank to go to the grocery store and take kids to soccer practice, so I kind of hope this is indicative of a larger shift.

I was also excited to hear the news that Buick may be brining a sedan back to the States. Their design language is beautiful in my opinion, and it shouldn't be wasted on mediocre crossovers. Sedans need to make a much-deserved comeback.

[Max Rockatansky]

Toyota still makes plenty of Corollas. 

[Plutonic Panda]

Toyota still makes plenty of Corollas. 

I want big body sedans again. While we're at it bring back land yachts.

[freebrickproductions]

I think part of it is that a lot of younger folks are generally preferring smaller (and more fuel efficient) cars, if they want a car at all, over massive SUVs for various reasons.

[noelbotevera]

SUVs are just neutered minivans anyways. If you wanted a "big" car capable of hauling stuff, what you really needed was a minivan.

Source: parents drove a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan for 11 years

[Max Rockatansky]

SUVs are just neutered minivans anyways. If you wanted a "big" car capable of hauling stuff, what you really needed was a minivan.

Source: parents drove a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan for 11 years

One thing minivans could never do (stock) was be reliable on high clearance roads.  Our Forester for my wife isn't dissimilar to a minivan but I get a lot of dirt road mileage in it.

[Rothman]

SUVs are just neutered minivans anyways. If you wanted a "big" car capable of hauling stuff, what you really needed was a minivan.

Source: parents drove a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan for 11 years

One thing minivans could never do (stock) was be reliable on high clearance roads.  Our Forester for my wife isn't dissimilar to a minivan but I get a lot of dirt road mileage in it.

So...Foresters are high clearance...

[noelbotevera]

SUVs are just neutered minivans anyways. If you wanted a "big" car capable of hauling stuff, what you really needed was a minivan.

Source: parents drove a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan for 11 years

One thing minivans could never do (stock) was be reliable on high clearance roads.  Our Forester for my wife isn't dissimilar to a minivan but I get a lot of dirt road mileage in it.

See, you found a use case for an SUV. Most people driving SUVs never make use of the high clearance* nor the 4x4 feature. Hence, all they've bought at the end of the day is a worse minivan.

*or not according to Rothman

[Max Rockatansky]

SUVs are just neutered minivans anyways. If you wanted a "big" car capable of hauling stuff, what you really needed was a minivan.

Source: parents drove a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan for 11 years

One thing minivans could never do (stock) was be reliable on high clearance roads.  Our Forester for my wife isn't dissimilar to a minivan but I get a lot of dirt road mileage in it.

So...Foresters are high clearance...

Correct, my point was that the actual day to day user (Jessica) isn't using the full utility.  She actually wanted it because it seats higher and the AWD negated having to worry about R1 chain controls when she worked in Oakhurst.  Had she gotten over that seating position issue my Impreza (also AWD) would have been the better fit for her situation. 

[interstatefan990]

Toyota still makes plenty of Corollas. 

Not nearly as many RAV4s it makes.

I want big body sedans again. While we're at it bring back land yachts.

I second this. Bring back the Avalons and Tauruses of the car world, I shouldn't have to drop a small fortune on an S-Class to have a properly large sedan.

I think part of it is that a lot of younger folks are generally preferring smaller (and more fuel efficient) cars, if they want a car at all, over massive SUVs for various reasons.

There's probably a cost-of-living argument to be made there with the fuel efficiency aspect of it.

SUVs are just neutered minivans anyways. If you wanted a "big" car capable of hauling stuff, what you really needed was a minivan.

Source: parents drove a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan for 11 years

The minivan is too practical for its own good. It works so well as a family car and a cargo hauler, that its identity/image has become shaped around that usage, and now it's no longer "cool". And then everyone buys an SUV, because oh hey, at least they're not driving a mom car.

[Max Rockatansky]

Probably worth pointing out that there are two current generation Corolla buyers active in the thread.  For me the model I got was easy to obtain as the dealer had about a dozen on the lot.  Apparently about 250,000 Corollas were sold in the U.S. last year.  Yeah, that isn't as much as the RAV4 but that's not exactly a small amount of sales.

Also, Jessica does want a new generation RAV4.  She intends to get it one in the next twelve months.  We'll be hanging on to the Forester as more of a dedicated off road vehicle.  I am aware that we are in a luxurious position to be able to afford and have the means to maintain many vehicles.

[noelbotevera]

SUVs are just neutered minivans anyways. If you wanted a "big" car capable of hauling stuff, what you really needed was a minivan.

Source: parents drove a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan for 11 years

The minivan is too practical for its own good. It works so well as a family car and a cargo hauler, that its identity/image has become shaped around that usage, and now it's no longer "cool". And then everyone buys an SUV, because oh hey, at least they're not driving a mom car.

That's the reason the minivan is no longer popular? Buying a "cool" car for a daily driver is terrible rationale.

A college friend of mine bought a used Beemer recently (BMW 330i) and while it was his dream car (and it is a sedan!) + a planned purchase...man those maintenance costs are gonna eat him alive.

Probably worth pointing out that there are two current generation Corolla buyers active in the thread.  For me the model I got was easy to obtain as the dealer had about a dozen on the lot.  Apparently about 250,000 Corollas were sold in the U.S. last year.  Yeah, that isn't as much as the RAV4 but that's not exactly a small amount of sales.

Another point for sedans. No need to worry about lead times or shipping when there's already 13 other copies of the car on the lot.

(In my case, there weren't 13 other copies of the Corolla Hybrid. Still taking it for the redonkulous MPG without having to sacrifice an organ to pay for public charging.)

[interstatefan990]

That's the reason the minivan is no longer popular? Buying a "cool" car for a daily driver is terrible rationale.

I agree, but I guess there's something about being seen in a minivan that turns people off? It's not like a Honda Pilot or a Ford Explorer is a cool car, but for the average consumer it's more about what their vehicle isn't than what it is.

[Max Rockatansky]

That's the reason the minivan is no longer popular? Buying a "cool" car for a daily driver is terrible rationale.

I agree, but I guess there's something about being seen in a minivan that turns people off? It's not like a Honda Pilot or a Ford Explorer is a cool car, but for the average consumer it's more about what their vehicle isn't than what it is.

Most people don't want a vehicle that actually stands out.  A minivan despite being uncool does exactly that.

[interstatefan990]

Most people don't want a vehicle that actually stands out.  A minivan despite being uncool does exactly that.

Kind of stretching the phrase "stand out" there. It's not the most common vehicle body type, but I wouldn't expect it to turn heads driving down the street.

Unless you mean that its uncoolness is what separates it from the rest (in a bad way).

[Max Rockatansky]

Most people don't want a vehicle that actually stands out.  A minivan despite being uncool does exactly that.

Kind of stretching the phrase "stand out" there. It's not the most common vehicle body type, but I wouldn't expect it to turn heads driving down the street.

Unless you mean that its uncoolness is what separates it from the rest (in a bad way).

How exactly is that a stretch?  Most vehicles resemble each other, and they more often than not are sold with very generic color schemes.  A lot of people view vehicles and appliances and there isn't necessarily anything wrong with automakers trying to cater to that mindset if it is profitable.

[Stephane Dumas]

And let's go a step further by wishing the return of the 4-door hardtop as well.
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/analysis/all-those-glamorous-hardtops-appendix-how-common-were-four-door-hardtops/

And it's hard to believe but Toyota, Datsun/Nissan and Mazda offered 4-door hardtops in Japan until the 1990s.
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/analysis/all-those-glamorous-hardtops-appendix-how-common-were-four-door-hardtops/
https://ateupwithmotor.com/model-histories/japanese-four-door-hardtops/

[SP Cook]

Toyota still makes plenty of Corollas. 

This is really the only point.  The media has had this spin about the death of sedans for a long while.  Actually, about 20% of new car sales last year were sedans.  Toyota, and Honda, Nissan, VW, et al, make a full range of sedans in the standard market, and M-B, BMW, Lexus, et al, make a full range of sedans in the luxury market.

So, with one out of five cars being a sedan, who doesn't make sedans?  The so-called "American" manufacturers.  Because they were beaten out of the segment by the quality manufacturers.  People what automobiles that are well built.  You don't get that from them.  So they mostly stick to trucks, where they can hide behind the chicken tax. 

[1995hoo]

Our 15-year-old niece was riding with us last night. She has her learner's permit and my wife asked her what sort of car she's interested in. She said either a Jeep or a Ford Bronco. I guess I shouldn't be surprised: Her father and brothers all drive pickups and her mother drives a Lincoln Nautilus SUV.

[Rothman]

Our 15-year-old niece was riding with us last night. She has her learner's permit and my wife asked her what sort of car she's interested in. She said either a Jeep or a Ford Bronco. I guess I shouldn't be surprised: Her father and brothers all drive pickups and her mother drives a Lincoln Nautilus SUV.

I suppose I'd steer her towards the Bronco, then.

[interstatefan990]

Most people don't want a vehicle that actually stands out.  A minivan despite being uncool does exactly that.

Kind of stretching the phrase "stand out" there. It's not the most common vehicle body type, but I wouldn't expect it to turn heads driving down the street.

Unless you mean that its uncoolness is what separates it from the rest (in a bad way).

How exactly is that a stretch?  Most vehicles resemble each other, and they more often than not are sold with very generic color schemes.  A lot of people view vehicles and appliances and there isn't necessarily anything wrong with automakers trying to cater to that mindset if it is profitable.

I'm confused. Are you saying that people don't like minivans because they stand out, or that people do like minivans because they don't stand out?

I suppose I'd steer her towards the Bronco, then.

A Bronco might be a bit much to handle for someone learning how to drive, but that's just my opinion.

Toyota still makes plenty of Corollas. 

This is really the only point.  The media has had this spin about the death of sedans for a long while.  Actually, about 20% of new car sales last year were sedans.  Toyota, and Honda, Nissan, VW, et al, make a full range of sedans in the standard market, and M-B, BMW, Lexus, et al, make a full range of sedans in the luxury market.

I wouldn't say a full range. The full-size sedan is practically dead outside of luxury staples like the A8, 7 Series, and S-Class, and Nissan is killing off all its sedans save for the Sentra. Acura also doesn't make any more sedans (Integra is technically a hatchback). Really, the only sedans left are mostly the long-running models that there will always be some market for, like Civics, Corollas, Accords, Camrys, etc. That's why I was happy to hear that Buick may be bringing one back, because the introduction of a new model likely signifies interest in sedans outside of those perennial models in the US market.

[Rothman]

Most people don't want a vehicle that actually stands out.  A minivan despite being uncool does exactly that.

Kind of stretching the phrase "stand out" there. It's not the most common vehicle body type, but I wouldn't expect it to turn heads driving down the street.

Unless you mean that its uncoolness is what separates it from the rest (in a bad way).

How exactly is that a stretch?  Most vehicles resemble each other, and they more often than not are sold with very generic color schemes.  A lot of people view vehicles and appliances and there isn't necessarily anything wrong with automakers trying to cater to that mindset if it is profitable.

I'm confused. Are you saying that people don't like minivans because they stand out, or that people do like minivans because they don't stand out?

I suppose I'd steer her towards the Bronco, then.

A Bronco might be a bit much to handle for someone learning how to drive, but that's just my opinion.

Jeeps are terrible.

[Plutonic Panda]

Most people don't want a vehicle that actually stands out.  A minivan despite being uncool does exactly that.

Kind of stretching the phrase "stand out" there. It's not the most common vehicle body type, but I wouldn't expect it to turn heads driving down the street.

Unless you mean that its uncoolness is what separates it from the rest (in a bad way).

How exactly is that a stretch?  Most vehicles resemble each other, and they more often than not are sold with very generic color schemes.  A lot of people view vehicles and appliances and there isn't necessarily anything wrong with automakers trying to cater to that mindset if it is profitable.

I'm confused. Are you saying that people don't like minivans because they stand out, or that people do like minivans because they don't stand out?

I suppose I'd steer her towards the Bronco, then.

A Bronco might be a bit much to handle for someone learning how to drive, but that's just my opinion.

Toyota still makes plenty of Corollas. 

This is really the only point.  The media has had this spin about the death of sedans for a long while.  Actually, about 20% of new car sales last year were sedans.  Toyota, and Honda, Nissan, VW, et al, make a full range of sedans in the standard market, and M-B, BMW, Lexus, et al, make a full range of sedans in the luxury market.

I wouldn't say a full range. The full-size sedan is practically dead outside of luxury staples like the A8, 7 Series, and S-Class, and Nissan is killing off all its sedans save for the Sentra. Acura also doesn't make any more sedans (Integra is technically a hatchback). Really, the only sedans left are mostly the long-running models that there will always be some market for, like Civics, Corollas, Accords, Camrys, etc. That's why I was happy to hear that Buick may be bringing one back, because the introduction of a new model likely signifies interest in sedans outside of those perennial models in the US market.

There's the baby Bronco but shit I had a 93 as my second car and I loved it. Maybe driving just comes second hand to me but I always loved cars that demand respect and attention while driving. Teaches you to drive better. These new cars take away from the experience of being more connected to the road.

[interstatefan990]

Jeeps are terrible.

Never forget this disastrous Jeep crash test...

There's the baby Bronco but shit I had a 93 as my second car and I loved it. Maybe driving just comes second hand to me but I always loved cars that demand respect and attention while driving. Teaches you to drive better. These new cars take away from the experience of being more connected to the road.

I'd say a new small car could maybe make you more attentive to the road than an old large SUV. Less room for error when you're in a vehicle hundreds/thousands of pounds lighter and several inches shorter than the cars around you.

[Beltway]

I wouldn't say a full range. The full-size sedan is practically dead outside of luxury staples like the A8, 7 Series, and S-Class, and Nissan is killing off all its sedans save for the Sentra. Acura also doesn't make any more sedans (Integra is technically a hatchback). Really, the only sedans left are mostly the long-running models that there will always be some market for, like Civics, Corollas, Accords, Camrys, etc. That's why I was happy to hear that Buick may be bringing one back, because the introduction of a new model likely signifies interest in sedans outside of those perennial models in the US market.

Mercedes-Benz still has sedans, I rented one recently at ORD. But they also have crossovers and SUVs.

Mass‑market full‑size sedans collapsed, but luxury sedans remained stable because they serve a different buyer profile and price elasticity. Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Lexus, and Genesis all still treat sedans as core products.

In Buick, I went from a LaCrosse sedan to an Enclave SUV in 2024.