The Return of the Sedan?

[Max Rockatansky]

Converting a yard to rocks isn't super difficult.

It is in that part of the country. Prairie weeds are pretty aggressive about trying to establish themselves. I had a planter in Oklahoma I wasn't using so I wanted to just convert it to rocks. Put plastic down, put the rocks down...the weeds grew anyway and just punched holes in the plastic.

The plastic will hold up for maybe a year before it starts breaking down.  Once the plastic breaks down a lot of feeds can puncture through it.  Actual weed block holds up way longer, especially if it is stapled down and isn't exposed anywhere to the sun. 

A really cheap way to convert a yard would be just layer it in a three-inch-deep trench of mulch.  The problem with that is the mulch will dry out and shrink.  If it shrinks enough the ground underneath will start getting sun again and weeds begin growing. 

[ZLoth]

For someone who talks a lot about tight budgeting I'm kind of surprised you use a yard service.

My mother pays for the yard service. However, it is only used for part of the year when the lawn isn't dormant. When the leaves fall, I'm the one who does a half-decent job of raking them up and putting them into bags. My home seems to be the neighborhood leaf magnet. Then, I contact the yard service for the final clean-up.

[kphoger]

When automatics are tested, the transmission is allowed to shift when it's programmed to, which is usually to shift to the lowest RPM that won't stall.  For manuals, however, the driver is not permitted to shift at their discretion - the driver of the test car must shift at certain set RPMs which are usually higher than an automatic would select on its own.

My car has one of those up-arrows that illuminate on the instrument panel whenever the car thinks it's a good time to up-shift.  When I first got the car, I thought those recommended shift points were insanely low, and I've never based when I up-shift on the arrow anyway.  But, over time, I started up-shifting earlier and earlier, to the point that I kind of matched what the computer was telling me to do.

Then it dawned on me that the computer is programmed to tell you when to shift based on just one criterion:  fuel efficiency.  But early shifting and never seeing those higher RPMs can take a toll on other components—notably (and I suppose ironically) the catalytic converter.  My car is showing some signs that the clutch release bearing isn't doing so well, too, and shifting at higher RPMs makes for less grind.

Even with higher shift points, I haven't seen a dramatic change in fuel economy.

[interstatefan990]

For all the excitement they take out of driving, CVTs usually do pretty well when it comes to fuel efficiency. Since the transmission has an infinite number of gear ratios, it can stay in its maximum power and efficiency band for the current throttle input and driving conditions. It's not limited to choosing a certain gear like traditional automatics or manuals. Though some CVTs will end up costing you more in replacement/repair when they inevitably fail, than the amount they saved you on gas.

[kphoger]

For all the excitement they take out of driving, CVTs ...

Are they any less 'exciting' than a regular automatic transmission?

[Max Rockatansky]

For all the excitement they take out of driving, CVTs ...

Are they any less 'exciting' than a regular automatic transmission?

That depends.  It was certainly exciting when the CVT in my rental Sentra blew up when I was vacationing on Maui.

[interstatefan990]

For all the excitement they take out of driving, CVTs ...

Are they any less 'exciting' than a regular automatic transmission?

Yes, a CVT accelerates with a constant drone (or worse, fake shifts), instead of an automatic that rows through gears. It holds the engine at a constant RPM instead of gradually building power and torque like an automatic does. You lose auditory feedback, overall responsiveness, the feeling of the car kicking into a lower gear to speed up, and not to mention the ability to remain in a certain gear when towing or driving through hilly terrain.

[Scott5114]

For all the excitement they take out of driving, CVTs ...

Are they any less 'exciting' than a regular automatic transmission?

Yes, a CVT accelerates with a constant drone (or worse, fake shifts), instead of an automatic that rows through gears. It holds the engine at a constant RPM instead of gradually building power and torque like an automatic does. You lose auditory feedback, overall responsiveness, the feeling of the car kicking into a lower gear to speed up, and not to mention the ability to remain in a certain gear when towing or driving through hilly terrain.

Okay...and what's exciting about any of that?

[kphoger]

For all the excitement they take out of driving, CVTs ...

Are they any less 'exciting' than a regular automatic transmission?

Yes, a CVT accelerates with a constant drone (or worse, fake shifts), instead of an automatic that rows through gears. It holds the engine at a constant RPM instead of gradually building power and torque like an automatic does. You lose auditory feedback, overall responsiveness, the feeling of the car kicking into a lower gear to speed up, and not to mention the ability to remain in a certain gear when towing or driving through hilly terrain.

Okay...and what's exciting about any of that?

Thank you, Scott.

I agree that an inability to select a specific gear for towing or hilly terrain is a downside.  But I don't find the ability to do so 'exciting'.  Just useful and perhaps less annoying (in hills), but not 'exciting'.

An automatic transmission shifting through the gears actually annoys me, chiefly because it doesn't always shift at the same points that I would shift if it were a manual.  If I'm going to lose the ability to choose when to shift gears, then a constant RPM drone actually sounds better to me than often hearing and feeling the transmission shifting at the 'wrong' time.  But, again, none of this has to do with 'driving excitement', because neither one involves me actually shifting.

Power, torque, and responsiveness, on the other hand, do have to do with 'excitement'.  I'm curious to know how much of a real-world difference there in this regard.

[Scott5114]

Power, torque, and responsiveness, on the other hand, do have to do with 'excitement'.

I don't think that's even that exciting.

So I get it out on US-6 and get it up to a hundred. Then what?

[kphoger]

So I get it out on US-6 and get it up to a hundred. Then what?

Then you have more time to take pictures of road signs than you otherwise would, because you got there faster.  Which is exciting. 

[Rothman]

CVTs that I have owned have some sort of simulated way of downshifting.  That said, my Subaru Forester leaves much to be desired.  The autoshift doesn''t shift down far enough and a push-button "hill mode" shifts down too much and only stays in place if you're under 20 mph.

Frustrating.

[Max Rockatansky]

I've had the opposite problem with both our Subaru CVTs.  They were fine slowing things down above 20 MPH speeds but not below it.  The Forester we have and the Impreza I once owned were base models.

[Rothman]

I've had the opposite problem with both our Subaru CVTs.  They were fine slowing things down above 20 MPH speeds but not below it.  The Forester we have and the Impreza I once owned were base models.

Not sure, but maybe we're on the same page?  "Downshifting" on my car slows you down from the Interstate from let's say 80 to 30, eventually.  I wish the downshifts were stronger to where I barely need to use the brakes to come to a stop.

Hill mode means I have to slow down to 20, engage it, and then have to deal with it popping off when the grade is too steep.

[interstatefan990]

For all the excitement they take out of driving, CVTs ...

Are they any less 'exciting' than a regular automatic transmission?

Yes, a CVT accelerates with a constant drone (or worse, fake shifts), instead of an automatic that rows through gears. It holds the engine at a constant RPM instead of gradually building power and torque like an automatic does. You lose auditory feedback, overall responsiveness, the feeling of the car kicking into a lower gear to speed up, and not to mention the ability to remain in a certain gear when towing or driving through hilly terrain.

Okay...and what's exciting about any of that?

I guess you'd have to be more of a car enthusiast to understand why responsiveness, engine noise, and experiencing the car's power is exciting.

[Max Rockatansky]

For all the excitement they take out of driving, CVTs ...

Are they any less 'exciting' than a regular automatic transmission?

Yes, a CVT accelerates with a constant drone (or worse, fake shifts), instead of an automatic that rows through gears. It holds the engine at a constant RPM instead of gradually building power and torque like an automatic does. You lose auditory feedback, overall responsiveness, the feeling of the car kicking into a lower gear to speed up, and not to mention the ability to remain in a certain gear when towing or driving through hilly terrain.

Okay...and what's exciting about any of that?

I guess you'd have to be more of a car enthusiast to understand why responsiveness, engine noise, and experiencing the car's power is exciting.

I'm pretty sure Scott was asking what was so exciting about a "CVT." 

[Scott5114]

For all the excitement they take out of driving, CVTs ...

Are they any less 'exciting' than a regular automatic transmission?

Yes, a CVT accelerates with a constant drone (or worse, fake shifts), instead of an automatic that rows through gears. It holds the engine at a constant RPM instead of gradually building power and torque like an automatic does. You lose auditory feedback, overall responsiveness, the feeling of the car kicking into a lower gear to speed up, and not to mention the ability to remain in a certain gear when towing or driving through hilly terrain.

Okay...and what's exciting about any of that?

I guess you'd have to be more of a car enthusiast to understand why responsiveness, engine noise, and experiencing the car's power is exciting.

I'm pretty sure Scott was asking what was so exciting about a "CVT." 

Either.

I mean, I guess I get responsiveness being exciting. Having a responsive computer is exciting.

Power, not so much. If a car is too powerful it feels like you're having to hold its leash back to keep it from running away with you. That's not exciting to me, it's nervewracking.

Engine noise is just annoying.

[Max Rockatansky]

How many enthusiast oriented cars have CVTs in them?  I can't imagine it is very many. 

[Dirt Roads]

How many enthusiast oriented cars have CVTs in them?  I can't imagine it is very many. 

None, unless you count the Jeep Cherokee.  But I don't see any rubber duckies in their windshields.

[Max Rockatansky]

How many enthusiast oriented cars have CVTs in them?  I can't imagine it is very many. 

None, unless you count the Jeep Cherokee.  But I don't see any rubber duckies in their windshields.

Heh, one of my employees has a Cherokee with rubber ducks on her dash.  I get some amusement out of reminding her that my Corolla has done more overlanding than her Cherokee has.