Young Kids Don't Like The Moose (including me)

[Rothman]

I had a colleague who was a very active Elk.  Although his "If people don't volunteer, the fun will not be had" spirit was admirable, younger generations are seeing such efforts as a whole lot of sweat and energy spent on not much benefit.

I mean, who was responsible during the Me Decade of the 1980s that got us all started thinking this way?  Little wonder organized groups are dying out in favor of just small groups of friends hanging out, at best.

[Beltway]

That decade was the 1960s.

[Bitmapped]

- If the West Virginia subreddit is any indication, stories like the above about it taking months to get bills from the Turnpike, if ever at all.  The postage comments should also not that a major user base for the Turnpike and particularly the now unmanned "side toll" booth are from Ontario.  Its $1.40 to send a letter to Canada, and C$1.75 to reply.  I have no idea how one could write a check to a government in another country in a foreign currency.

I doubt anyone is sending a check. You go online and pay using a credit or debit card. Your bank handles the currency exchange, same as if you paid with the card physically in another country.

I would imagine that many snowbirds who do regularly travel between the US and Canada already have a U.S. Dollar-denominated bank account, so they could just pay using that in a check if needed.

[Rothman]

That decade was the 1960s.

Let's split the difference and call it the 1970s:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_generation

Either way, the Me Decade and Generation were shepherded in by the Boomers.

[Beltway]

That decade was the 1960s.

Let's split the difference and call it the 1970s:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_generation
Either way, the Me Decade and Generation were shepherded in by the Boomers.

The "Me Decade" argument works for the 1970s, but if we're widening the lens, the U.S. didn't exactly project spotless moral discipline overseas in earlier eras either. Even in WWII -- the "Good War" -- American deployments created entire red‑light districts around bases from England to Australia to the Pacific islands.  And they needed willing participants in those overseas countries.

That wasn't about individual troops being uniquely immoral; it was the predictable result of huge numbers of young men stationed far from home while local authorities and U.S. command structures looked the other way. So if we're talking about cultural roots, the pattern of moral drift abroad predates the Boomers by quite a bit.

[Rothman]

*wipes word vomit off his screen in vain*

[TheCatalyst31]

That decade was the 1960s.

Let's split the difference and call it the 1970s:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_generation
Either way, the Me Decade and Generation were shepherded in by the Boomers.

The "Me Decade" argument works for the 1970s, but if we're widening the lens, the U.S. didn't exactly project spotless moral discipline overseas in earlier eras either. Even in WWII -- the "Good War" -- American deployments created entire red‑light districts around bases from England to Australia to the Pacific islands.  And they needed willing participants in those overseas countries.

That wasn't about individual troops being uniquely immoral; it was the predictable result of huge numbers of young men stationed far from home while local authorities and U.S. command structures looked the other way. So if we're talking about cultural roots, the pattern of moral drift abroad predates the Boomers by quite a bit.

Didn't we approve that new rule about not posting AI slop on the forum? Because that post has a lot of AI tells.

[Beltway]

That decade was the 1960s.

Let's split the difference and call it the 1970s:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_generation
Either way, the Me Decade and Generation were shepherded in by the Boomers.

The "Me Decade" argument works for the 1970s, but if we're widening the lens, the U.S. didn't exactly project spotless moral discipline overseas in earlier eras either. Even in WWII -- the "Good War" -- American deployments created entire red‑light districts around bases from England to Australia to the Pacific islands.  And they needed willing participants in those overseas countries.
That wasn't about individual troops being uniquely immoral; it was the predictable result of huge numbers of young men stationed far from home while local authorities and U.S. command structures looked the other way. So if we're talking about cultural roots, the pattern of moral drift abroad predates the Boomers by quite a bit.

Didn't we approve that new rule about not posting AI slop on the forum? Because that post has a lot of AI tells.

Not AI. I was drawing on Masters of the Air and other Eighth Air Force sources.

The pattern around the WWII bases in England -- tolerated red‑light districts, parallel economies, and command looking the other way -- is well‑documented. American GIs were wealthy compared to the low-paid British soldiers and airmen, and that gave them a lot of leverage for dating British young women.

It didn't start in the 1970s.

Masters of the Air: America's Bomber Boys Who Fought the Air War Against Nazi Germany Paperback, September, 2007, by Donald L. Miller.

[Rothman]

That decade was the 1960s.

Let's split the difference and call it the 1970s:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_generation
Either way, the Me Decade and Generation were shepherded in by the Boomers.

The "Me Decade" argument works for the 1970s, but if we're widening the lens, the U.S. didn't exactly project spotless moral discipline overseas in earlier eras either. Even in WWII -- the "Good War" -- American deployments created entire red‑light districts around bases from England to Australia to the Pacific islands.  And they needed willing participants in those overseas countries.
That wasn't about individual troops being uniquely immoral; it was the predictable result of huge numbers of young men stationed far from home while local authorities and U.S. command structures looked the other way. So if we're talking about cultural roots, the pattern of moral drift abroad predates the Boomers by quite a bit.

Didn't we approve that new rule about not posting AI slop on the forum? Because that post has a lot of AI tells.

Not AI. I was drawing on Masters of the Air and other Eighth Air Force sources.

The pattern around the WWII bases in England -- tolerated red‑light districts, parallel economies, and command looking the other way -- is well‑documented. American GIs were wealthy compared to the low-paid British soldiers and airmen, and that gave them a lot of leverage for dating British young women.

It didn't start in the 1970s.

Masters of the Air: America's Bomber Boys Who Fought the Air War Against Nazi Germany Paperback, September, 2007, by Donald L. Miller.

This was the strangest non sequitur you've made yet, though.  No one was talking about some sort of moral decline somehow symptomatic by prostitution; we were just talking about the decline of fraternal organizations.

Really seems so out of the blue that it's hard not to conclude you were drawing from that source through the use of AI.

Feels like we're being turned into modern junior high school teachers with this stuff, given what they have to deal with turned in by students nowadays for homework.

"People don't join fraternal organizations" -- The Rest of Us
"Well, you can blame American GI's penchant for prostitution in Europe during WWII for that." -- Beltway

[Beltway]

I've read Masters of the Air and other Eighth Air Force sources, and the economic imbalance between American GIs and British servicemen is well‑documented. It shaped dating (and sexual) patterns around the bases, and it's part of the social‑history context I was referring to. The roots of the 1960s immorality among young people were their parents back in the 1940s and before. We had 11 million men in arms so this impacted widely. Context regarding your "Boomer" shot. Nothing in my post came from AI -- it was just me summarizing what those historians describe.

That said, this a far off topic here and the moderators may want to move this sub-thread to Off Topic.

[vdeane]

I've read Masters of the Air and other Eighth Air Force sources, and the economic imbalance between American GIs and British servicemen is well‑documented. It shaped dating (and sexual) patterns around the bases, and it's part of the social‑history context I was referring to. The roots of the 1960s immorality among young people were their parents back in the 1940s and before. We had 11 million men in arms so this impacted widely. Context regarding your "Boomer" shot. Nothing in my post came from AI -- it was just me summarizing what those historians describe.

That said, this a far off topic here and the moderators may want to move this sub-thread to Off Topic.

We were talking about the rise of consumerism and people becoming selfish and less community oriented, not people having sexual relations outside of marriage.  You do realize that few people today would consider the hippies to have been immoral, right?  If anything, we're perplexed at how the Baby Boomers turned against that and became the opposite.

[Beltway]

It was when Rothman mentioned a "Me decade" in the 1980s -- those young adults would have been born by and large after 1964.

[Max Rockatansky]

I don't like it when Moose and Elk run in front my car.  The latter is a problem that has plagued me since my Arizona days.

BTW, I'm assuming the OP means this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_and_Protective_Order_of_Elks

[Rothman]

I don't like it when Moose and Elk run in front my car.  The latter is a problem that has plagued me since my Arizona days.

BTW, I'm assuming the OP means this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_and_Protective_Order_of_Elks

I really wasn't the OP.  SP Cook had lamented the diminishing of fraternal orders in the West Virginia thread and I was responding to it...and then Beltway started rambling about prostitution during WWII.

[Max Rockatansky]

I don't like it when Moose and Elk run in front my car.  The latter is a problem that has plagued me since my Arizona days.

BTW, I'm assuming the OP means this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_and_Protective_Order_of_Elks

I really wasn't the OP.  SP Cook had lamented the diminishing of fraternal orders in the West Virginia thread and I was responding to it...and then Beltway started rambling about prostitution during WWII.

I wonder how those guys kept their stats before computer spreadsheets?  Maybe they used graph paper?

[Rothman]

I don't like it when Moose and Elk run in front my car.  The latter is a problem that has plagued me since my Arizona days.

BTW, I'm assuming the OP means this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_and_Protective_Order_of_Elks

I really wasn't the OP.  SP Cook had lamented the diminishing of fraternal orders in the West Virginia thread and I was responding to it...and then Beltway started rambling about prostitution during WWII.

I wonder how those guys kept their stats before computer spreadsheets?  Maybe they used graph paper?

I was trying very, very hard not to go there.

[Max Rockatansky]

I don't like it when Moose and Elk run in front my car.  The latter is a problem that has plagued me since my Arizona days.

BTW, I'm assuming the OP means this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_and_Protective_Order_of_Elks

I really wasn't the OP.  SP Cook had lamented the diminishing of fraternal orders in the West Virginia thread and I was responding to it...and then Beltway started rambling about prostitution during WWII.

I wonder how those guys kept their stats before computer spreadsheets?  Maybe they used graph paper?

I was trying very, very hard not to go there.

You still haven't.

[PNWRoadgeek]

I don't like it when Moose and Elk run in front my car.  The latter is a problem that has plagued me since my Arizona days.

BTW, I'm assuming the OP means this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_and_Protective_Order_of_Elks

I really wasn't the OP.  SP Cook had lamented the diminishing of fraternal orders in the West Virginia thread and I was responding to it...and then Beltway started rambling about prostitution during WWII.

I wonder how those guys kept their stats before computer spreadsheets?  Maybe they used graph paper?

I was trying very, very hard not to go there.

You still haven't.

And he likely never will.

[Max Rockatansky]

I don't like it when Moose and Elk run in front my car.  The latter is a problem that has plagued me since my Arizona days.

BTW, I'm assuming the OP means this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_and_Protective_Order_of_Elks

I really wasn't the OP.  SP Cook had lamented the diminishing of fraternal orders in the West Virginia thread and I was responding to it...and then Beltway started rambling about prostitution during WWII.

I wonder how those guys kept their stats before computer spreadsheets?  Maybe they used graph paper?

I was trying very, very hard not to go there.

You still haven't.

And he likely never will.

The capsule stands.

[vdeane]

I don't like it when Moose and Elk run in front my car.  The latter is a problem that has plagued me since my Arizona days.

BTW, I'm assuming the OP means this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_and_Protective_Order_of_Elks

One of my former supervisors was a member of that and even the Exalted Ruler of the local section for a time.  He had his plaque situated outside his cubicle, which was amusing.

[TheCatalyst31]

I don't like it when Moose and Elk run in front my car.  The latter is a problem that has plagued me since my Arizona days.

BTW, I'm assuming the OP means this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_and_Protective_Order_of_Elks

One of my former supervisors was a member of that and even the Exalted Ruler of the local section for a time.  He had his plaque situated outside his cubicle, which was amusing.

I kind of love how much fraternal organizations seem to be an excuse for well-off men to hang out and do a bunch of goofy social rituals with each other, like giving themselves titles like "Exalted Ruler". It's one of the many reasons I can never take Masonic conspiracies seriously, because as far as I can tell they do very similar things.

[Scott5114]

I don't like it when Moose and Elk run in front my car.  The latter is a problem that has plagued me since my Arizona days.

BTW, I'm assuming the OP means this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_and_Protective_Order_of_Elks

One of my former supervisors was a member of that and even the Exalted Ruler of the local section for a time.  He had his plaque situated outside his cubicle, which was amusing.

I kind of love how much fraternal organizations seem to be an excuse for well-off men to hang out and do a bunch of goofy social rituals with each other, like giving themselves titles like "Exalted Ruler". It's one of the many reasons I can never take Masonic conspiracies seriously, because as far as I can tell they do very similar things.

Unfortunately a penchant for silly titles and rituals does not render an organization harmless—case in point, the Ku Klux Klan.

I don't know that Masonic conspiracies should be taken seriously, but I certainly believe well-off men hang out and conspire; whether or not they do it at Masonic meetings seems beside the point.

[Max Rockatansky]

My grandpa was a member of the Knights of Columbus.  I have no idea what they did at their meetings or what his role was.  They did have pretty kick ass Christmas parties though and gave away decent toys to the kids who attended.

Around these parts in California, it isn't uncommon to find older Independent Order of Odd Fellows buildings.  Off the top of my head there is an IOOF building down the road (CA 180) in Centerville and another up on CA 59 in Snelling.  There are a couple others I've seen in Gold Rush towns.  None of the buildings appear to be active and seem to be mostly in a state of arrested decay.

[Scott5114]

My grandpa was a member of the Knights of Columbus.  I have no idea what they did at their meetings or what his role was.

I would assume they took trips to the capital of Ohio and moved around all L-shaped there.

[Max Rockatansky]

My grandpa was a member of the Knights of Columbus.  I have no idea what they did at their meetings or what his role was.

I would assume they took trips to the capital of Ohio and moved around all L-shaped there.

An interesting theory.  However, my grandpa frequently got lost trying to get from Redford Township to Brighton and Lansing.  If he had made an attempt on Columbus, I would imagine that my dad would have recruited me onto an epic rescue mission to find him.