Is your state a "freeway" state or a "4 lane expressway" state? Or a mix?

Started by Roadgeekteen, June 01, 2026, 10:47:05 PM

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Beltway

Quote from: sprjus4 on June 05, 2026, 08:27:58 AMUS-29, FL-85, US-331, FL-79, US-98, US-27, US-319, US-19, all on the panhandle alone. US-19/US-98 is a 4 lane corridor connecting the panhandle to Tampa.
US-301 is a major highway that probably should be a freeway connecting Jacksonville with I-75 to Tampa.
US-17 and US-27 have significant 4 lane sections through the middle of the state, SR-60 connecting the Turnpike to Vero Beach, etc.
These are just some examples that come to mind. There's certainly more.
Florida does use freeways near urban areas, often tolled, but four lane divided highways dominate in rural areas (the major exception being the Florida Turnpike) outside of the interstate system.
US-192 was dualized between Melbourne and Kissimmee around 2005ish. West of there was already 4-laned. Nonlimited-access highway though.

US-1 was 4-laned all the way down the coast about 1955-65 as a high priority need even before I-95 was built.
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Scott5114

Quote from: TheCatalyst31 on June 01, 2026, 11:47:34 PMIllinois is a fourteen-lane expressway state.

A great illustration of why using states for destinations is stupid. Your choices are Indiana or Indiana. Gee.

(If they must use states, maybe for I-94 they should use "Michigan"...)
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

TheCatalyst31

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 11, 2026, 11:49:55 PM
Quote from: TheCatalyst31 on June 01, 2026, 11:47:34 PMIllinois is a fourteen-lane expressway state.

A great illustration of why using states for destinations is stupid. Your choices are Indiana or Indiana. Gee.

(If they must use states, maybe for I-94 they should use "Michigan"...)
The trouble is those two highways meet again 16 miles into Indiana, and I-90 doesn't serve any places that I-94 doesn't also go through, so "Indiana Toll Road" might be the best they can do. In theory I-94 has other options, but then you have to use South Holland or Lansing as a control city and that's silly for different reasons. Or "South Suburbs" a la I-355.

Scott5114

Quote from: TheCatalyst31 on June 12, 2026, 12:56:36 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 11, 2026, 11:49:55 PM
Quote from: TheCatalyst31 on June 01, 2026, 11:47:34 PMIllinois is a fourteen-lane expressway state.

A great illustration of why using states for destinations is stupid. Your choices are Indiana or Indiana. Gee.

(If they must use states, maybe for I-94 they should use "Michigan"...)
The trouble is those two highways meet again 16 miles into Indiana, and I-90 doesn't serve any places that I-94 doesn't also go through, so "Indiana Toll Road" might be the best they can do. In theory I-94 has other options, but then you have to use South Holland or Lansing as a control city and that's silly for different reasons. Or "South Suburbs" a la I-355.

I don't think it would really be a problem to use Kalamazoo (or Detroit or whatever) for I-94 and South Bend for I-90. Sure, you can swap between them again in Indiana, but there's no real downside to separating the traffic this early. I guess some people going to South Bend might be mad that they could have saved some toll money taking I-94 to the interchange in Indiana and swapping over there, but if they find out they can do that then we can make 'em feel like they're real smart cause they're getting away with something taking the highway to Kalamazoo when they're really going to South Bend.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

TheCatalyst31

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 12, 2026, 01:11:15 AM
Quote from: TheCatalyst31 on June 12, 2026, 12:56:36 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 11, 2026, 11:49:55 PM
Quote from: TheCatalyst31 on June 01, 2026, 11:47:34 PMIllinois is a fourteen-lane expressway state.

A great illustration of why using states for destinations is stupid. Your choices are Indiana or Indiana. Gee.

(If they must use states, maybe for I-94 they should use "Michigan"...)
The trouble is those two highways meet again 16 miles into Indiana, and I-90 doesn't serve any places that I-94 doesn't also go through, so "Indiana Toll Road" might be the best they can do. In theory I-94 has other options, but then you have to use South Holland or Lansing as a control city and that's silly for different reasons. Or "South Suburbs" a la I-355.

I don't think it would really be a problem to use Kalamazoo (or Detroit or whatever) for I-94 and South Bend for I-90. Sure, you can swap between them again in Indiana, but there's no real downside to separating the traffic this early. I guess some people going to South Bend might be mad that they could have saved some toll money taking I-94 to the interchange in Indiana and swapping over there, but if they find out they can do that then we can make 'em feel like they're real smart cause they're getting away with something taking the highway to Kalamazoo when they're really going to South Bend.
The catch, of course, is that Indiana doesn't even use South Bend as a control city on I-90, because they follow Chicago's lead and use Ohio for some reason.

kphoger

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 12, 2026, 01:11:15 AMI don't think it would really be a problem to use Kalamazoo (or Detroit or whatever) for I-94 and South Bend for I-90. Sure, you can swap between them again in Indiana, but there's no real downside to separating the traffic this early.

If both routes can be used to go to both locations, then what's even the point of the control cities at all?

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

GaryV

I know how to do it.

Sign I-90 as "TO I-94"
Sign I-94 as "TO I-90"

What could be plainer?

Scott5114

Quote from: kphoger on June 12, 2026, 01:58:08 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 12, 2026, 01:11:15 AMI don't think it would really be a problem to use Kalamazoo (or Detroit or whatever) for I-94 and South Bend for I-90. Sure, you can swap between them again in Indiana, but there's no real downside to separating the traffic this early.

If both routes can be used to go to both locations, then what's even the point of the control cities at all?

Found the Kansan. :P
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

kphoger

Quote from: GaryV on June 12, 2026, 06:11:48 PMSign I-90 as "TO I-94"
Sign I-94 as "TO I-90"

I'd love to see someone do a mockup of that.

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

plain

Quote from: GaryV on June 12, 2026, 06:11:48 PMI know how to do it.

Sign I-90 as "TO I-94"
Sign I-94 as "TO I-90"

What could be plainer?

Me. I could be plainer :bigass:
Newark born, Richmond bred

Quillz

California has both freeways and expressways.

US-395 is an example of an expressway. It's fully divided, has clear medians and shoulders, there are no driveways or businesses directly accessed from it, but it does have at-grade junctions. But those at-grade junctions are fully stop signed. The exceptions are when you get into the small towns along the way (Lone Pine, Bishop, etc.) where the expressway transitions down to a standard arterial street.

Seems over time, Caltrans tries to convert major routes into expressways where possible.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Quillz on June 18, 2026, 03:39:02 PMCalifornia has both freeways and expressways.

US-395 is an example of an expressway. It's fully divided, has clear medians and shoulders, there are no driveways or businesses directly accessed from it, but it does have at-grade junctions. But those at-grade junctions are fully stop signed. The exceptions are when you get into the small towns along the way (Lone Pine, Bishop, etc.) where the expressway transitions down to a standard arterial street.

Seems over time, Caltrans tries to convert major routes into expressways where possible.

The intent was at one point to convert  large percentage of the State Highway System as freeway or expressway.  That was the whole crux of the Freeway & Expressway System that was designated in 1959. 1959 Legislative Chapter 1062 notes the following about the system:

" It is the purpose of the legislature in extending lengths of routes presently in the State Highway System and in adding routes to the State Highway System in this act that additional mileage be incorporated into the State Highway System in order that said mileage may become a part of the California Freeway and Expressway System. There shall be no expenditures made on the extensions of state highways added by this act or on any state highways added by this act other than planning, design, maintenance, right-of-way acquisition and right-of-way clearance until the 1963-64 Fiscal Year."