Polarizing freeway cap park for the H1 enters planning stage

[Short n Swift]

As someone who looked into freeway capping as a nice concept, this one caught me by surprise: https://hidot.hawaii.gov/highways/h-1-cap-park-planning-study/

The study consists of almost 3/4 of a mile of below-grade freeway through downtown Honolulu in what also tends to be one of the most congested and oldest sections of the highway. There are multiple on/off ramps that would need to be replaced or removed, and the Nuuanu Stream running through the middle of it complicates it all. The eastern half with the complex interchange was built by 1961, and the western half has a lot of low clearance overpasses from 14.5 to 16 feet. Of course, it is very early in the study stage and any freeway capping would probably end up being in discontinuous segments, but I'm surprised they didn't go with something less ambitious. Like the short gap between the two Liliha St Overpasses, or the 6th/7th and 16th/Harding/Waialae overpasses in Kaimuki.

[Rothman]

So, you're polarized?  The link is just to HI's study announcement, so there's no evidence of public controversy provided.

[The Ghostbuster]

Does anyone think a freeway cap will improve the surrounding neighborhoods? If the locals support the cap, it could be beneficial to the corridor.

[Max Rockatansky]

H1 isn't a looker in this area and doesn't have anything to look at from the roadway.  Traffic is slow enough that having a structure overhead probably wouldn't impact the pace.

[NE2]

So, you're polarized?  The link is just to HI's study announcement, so there's no evidence of public controversy provided.

The plan is to reduce glare by polarizing the clear glass cap.

[Short n Swift]

So, you're polarized?  The link is just to HI's study announcement, so there's no evidence of public controversy provided.

We are still 10 days away from the actual first open house on the 29th, so much of the early reaction is just limited to online comments and some representatives. I'm not opposed with the idea, but I see a lot of varying opinions already: https://www.khon2.com/traffic/honolulu-h1-freeway-cap-park/

The main legitimate concerns I see right now are the rail construction along Nimitz and Dillingham to the south, how existing parks are not being maintained properly, and whether HDOT can get the project done in a timely manner. It's likely that construction starts when rail is already finished on those roads, but you never know. As for the traffic on both sides of the freeway, that's pretty much just a consequence of 70 year old infrastructure not aging well, and the project could end up evolving into a more complex retrofit of the freeway from around the Palama separation to Pele/Miller Streets.

Does anyone think a freeway cap will improve the surrounding neighborhoods? If the locals support the cap, it could be beneficial to the corridor.

It would be nice to see Foster and Lili'uokalani gardens connected and all the noise pollution reduced from this area. These overpasses are aging and so close together that a complete redesign of this area with freeway capping wouldn't hurt. Plus, it would make the area much more walkable than it is now.

I believe freeway capping also has potential in other areas. The Middle Street Merge, the Kaimuki area especially from Koko Head Ave to the Waialae interchange, and the Moanalua near For Shafter.

[Plutonic Panda]

Should follow a Sydney approach and widen and underground the freeways. Toll them.

[Max Rockatansky]

The cost of living on Oahu is high enough already. 

[Plutonic Panda]

The cost of living on Oahu is high enough already. 

Then don't live there. Really, Oahu should have a skyline that rivals Singapore or Hong Kong's. There should be an extremely expansive metro system, but it's full of NIMBYs. Hell, just building a two-lane road bypass makes front page statewide news.

[Max Rockatansky]

The cost of living on Oahu is high enough already. 

Then don't live there. Really, Oahu should have a skyline that rivals Singapore or Hong Kong's. There should be an extremely expansive metro system, but it's full of NIMBYs. Hell, just building a two-lane road bypass makes front page statewide news.

I've turned down applying for the Oahu transfer at work.  I have no intention of applying if it ever comes up again.

Several of my friends were stationed on Oahu during military PCS moves. BHA was often not enough to cover the cost of rent, even a considerable distance from downtown Honolulu.  Paradise often doesn't come cheap.

That aside, I can't imagine why NIMBY attitudes towards outsiders on Hawaii would be a thing?  You might want to dig into that from a  historic if my sarcasm didn't clearly convey. 

[Plutonic Panda]

The cost of living on Oahu is high enough already. 

Then don't live there. Really, Oahu should have a skyline that rivals Singapore or Hong Kong's. There should be an extremely expansive metro system, but it's full of NIMBYs. Hell, just building a two-lane road bypass makes front page statewide news.

I've turned down applying for the Oahu transfer at work.  I have no intention of applying if it ever comes up again.

Several of my friends were stationed on Oahu during military PCS moves. BHA was often not enough to cover the cost of rent, even a considerable distance from downtown Honolulu.  Paradise often doesn't come cheap.

That aside, I can't imagine why NIMBY attitudes towards outsiders on Hawaii would be a thing?  You might want to dig into that from a  historic if my sarcasm didn't clearly convey. 

I'm gonna say this last thing: I stand by what I said. I still think it needs to happen. They need to build an underground tollway network, and they need a skyline that rivals Hong Kong or Singapore's. I'm well aware of what happened, although I'm not an expert. I highly doubt you are either. The islands should not stagnate. because of past harm and colonialism, but I'm sure people like Zuckerberg would love for the place to remain desolate as possible. Gives them less people near their hundred million dollar mansions in the jungle. They're not an autonomous state, they're part of the United States. They are a state of our country.

[Max Rockatansky]

The Hawaiian islands have basically no substantial export industry.  Outside of the military and tourism there aren't really any booming economic drivers.  The plantation industry (a controversial topic unto itself) that was once present is a shell of what it once was aside from maybe Coffee.  A booming megalopolis isn't exactly on Oahu isn't conducive to a revival to the agricultural sector.  It would also contribute even more to pushing out native Hawaiian.  That phenomenon of Hawaiian depopulation is bad enough as is.

[kalvado]

The cost of living on Oahu is high enough already. 

Then don't live there. Really, Oahu should have a skyline that rivals Singapore or Hong Kong's. There should be an extremely expansive metro system, but it's full of NIMBYs. Hell, just building a two-lane road bypass makes front page statewide news.

I've turned down applying for the Oahu transfer at work.  I have no intention of applying if it ever comes up again.

Several of my friends were stationed on Oahu during military PCS moves. BHA was often not enough to cover the cost of rent, even a considerable distance from downtown Honolulu.  Paradise often doesn't come cheap.

That aside, I can't imagine why NIMBY attitudes towards outsiders on Hawaii would be a thing?  You might want to dig into that from a  historic if my sarcasm didn't clearly convey. 

I'm gonna say this last thing: I stand by what I said. I still think it needs to happen. They need to build an underground tollway network, and they need a skyline that rivals Hong Kong or Singapore's. I'm well aware of what happened, although I'm not an expert. I highly doubt you are either. The islands should not stagnate. because of past harm and colonialism, but I'm sure people like Zuckerberg would love for the place to remain desolate as possible. Gives them less people near their hundred million dollar mansions in the jungle. They're not an autonomous state, they're part of the United States. They are a state of our country.

HK and Singapore are money laundries. Do you want to take HI away from US fiscal control system to make that happen as well?

[Plutonic Panda]

The cost of living on Oahu is high enough already. 

Then don't live there. Really, Oahu should have a skyline that rivals Singapore or Hong Kong's. There should be an extremely expansive metro system, but it's full of NIMBYs. Hell, just building a two-lane road bypass makes front page statewide news.

I've turned down applying for the Oahu transfer at work.  I have no intention of applying if it ever comes up again.

Several of my friends were stationed on Oahu during military PCS moves. BHA was often not enough to cover the cost of rent, even a considerable distance from downtown Honolulu.  Paradise often doesn't come cheap.

That aside, I can't imagine why NIMBY attitudes towards outsiders on Hawaii would be a thing?  You might want to dig into that from a  historic if my sarcasm didn't clearly convey. 

I'm gonna say this last thing: I stand by what I said. I still think it needs to happen. They need to build an underground tollway network, and they need a skyline that rivals Hong Kong or Singapore's. I'm well aware of what happened, although I'm not an expert. I highly doubt you are either. The islands should not stagnate. because of past harm and colonialism, but I'm sure people like Zuckerberg would love for the place to remain desolate as possible. Gives them less people near their hundred million dollar mansions in the jungle. They're not an autonomous state, they're part of the United States. They are a state of our country.

HK and Singapore are money laundries. Do you want to take HI away from US fiscal control system to make that happen as well?

I think there is a very high demand for living in cities like Honolulu, and that demand is being kept artificially low. and it's a dystopian concept because only the rich can afford it.

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm sure LOTS of people would love to live in Hawaii.  Trouble is, what the hell are people going to actually "do" for a living?  If I had unlimited amounts of money, I'd love to buy a home on Maui, Kauai or the Big Island.  Trouble is that I have to work for a living, and I'll guess that I will have to settle for annual visits.

[Plutonic Panda]

Well, and this is a whole another topic, but with AI, you gotta kind of wonder what a lot of people are gonna do for work, wherever they live.

When it comes to building more and more buildings and bigger buildings, I face a dilemma, like when I first moved to Hollywood in 2015. I loved it I don't know how closely you follow development. outside of roads, but their proposing a lot of new shit and even what they've built so far has kind of changed the vibe of the area, and I'm not exactly thrilled with it.

And as you know, I'm not the biggest fan of complete streets either, but as cities get bigger, even I can't say that we don't need to adapt and rethink about how we move people. I'm pretty sure it was you that said this, but you specifically mentioned you weren't keen on more people moving up by your neck of the woods.

And I recall correctly, there are now more native islanders from Hawaii that live in Las Vegas that currently live on the island.

Oahu is already built up and I'm not exactly saying taking island like Maui and turn it into Singapore. But there does need to be much more infrastructure than what currently exists. If demand and prices are sky high, then why are we not seeing more proposals for skyscrapers?

[kalvado]

I'm sure LOTS of people would love to live in Hawaii.  Trouble is, what the hell are people going to actually "do" for a living?  If I had unlimited amounts of money, I'd love to buy a home on Maui, Kauai or the Big Island.  Trouble is that I have to work for a living, and I'll guess that I will have to settle for annual visits.

A weak point of urbanism ideology - jobs, beyond neighborhood service ones, and corresponding economy just don't enter the consideration. Water comes from the tap, power from wall outlets, and food grows in a grocery store.

[Max Rockatansky]

Regarding Maui about the only thing I would want to see is Kihei and the rest of Hawaii Route 31 connected the rest of Piilani Highway.  Having to backtrack to Kahului to get anywhere east is a PIA and not really ideal during a tsunami.  Dirt Piilani Highway and the Hawaii Route 360 segment of Hana Highway are fine (charming) as is. 

Hilo is next closest thing resembling a plotted urban area after Honolulu.  Aside from connecting the modern Saddle Road better with the Hawaii Belt Road (Hawaii Route 11) I don't really see another big need.  The roads around Kailua-Kona are way more of a mess on the western side of the Big Island. 

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm sure LOTS of people would love to live in Hawaii.  Trouble is, what the hell are people going to actually "do" for a living?  If I had unlimited amounts of money, I'd love to buy a home on Maui, Kauai or the Big Island.  Trouble is that I have to work for a living, and I'll guess that I will have to settle for annual visits.

A weak point of urbanism ideology - jobs, beyond neighborhood service ones, and corresponding economy just don't enter the consideration. Water comes from the tap, power from wall outlets, and food grows in a grocery store.

Outside of Honolulu there isn't even much opportunity for Urbanism-favored style infrastructure.  In general there wasn't much modern urban planning that went into any of the inhabited places in the rest of the islands.  Walkability certainly something you'll often find.

[Plutonic Panda]

I mean, you know, here's what worries me, and I say this to somebody who is literally trying to figure out what gutter to crawl into sleep tonight in Hollywood because I'm homeless, I'm not looking for a pity party, and I've made the choices in life that I've made that have ended me right where I'm at.

I don't think, nor do I believe or was raised to, that you should just be given a handout, which is oddly strange because I was spoiled to a degree. But if you work your ass off, I don't think you are more or less entitled to live in a part of the world where other people are born with a silver spoon up their ass can do so with no problem.

And that's the problem I see in a lot of places, but Hawaii is a great example of it. You build and you build, and you build, and you create a place so great, a lot of people wanna move there. You ask, what are people gonna do for jobs? Well, people will find something to do. I think the better question is, who the fuck do you think you are to just say, hey, we've expanded enough, we're good, we don't have any more room, no more building. Because that's what drives prices through the roof, to where it becomes class warfare, and in a lot of cases you end up with issues with racial disparity.

In this particular case, you end up with people whose families have been on that island for generations and generations, and now they can't afford to live there anymore. I don't think certain people need to be given a free ride just because certain things have happened to them that weren't so great in the past. Nor do I believe in reparations. But you know what, we do need to make sure that some people are given a break and we don't end up in a situation where you've had someone living on that island for so long and now they literally cannot afford to live there anymore. because you have people that just do not wanna build anymore, so the prices get driven up and then they're literally booted off of their own land because they have nowhere to go.

It's fucked up. And it's the same kind of ideology that if we were to build more freeways and high-speed rail in southern California, especially in the high desert, and build more single-family houses where we could get people to job centers quicker and build the tunnel under the Angeles forest and build infrastructure, we could accommodate more people.

But we don't do that, and we end up in the situation we're in now, and nobody really seems to have an answer on how to fix it because the issue is not being fixed. I've been homeless for a minute out here in LA, and I can tell you these people do not give a fuck about you.

And I guess what confuses me more than anything at this point is when we talk about controversies on an Oahu, I think the last thing on the list should be a cap over a freeway.

[Plutonic Panda]

I'm sure LOTS of people would love to live in Hawaii.  Trouble is, what the hell are people going to actually "do" for a living?  If I had unlimited amounts of money, I'd love to buy a home on Maui, Kauai or the Big Island.  Trouble is that I have to work for a living, and I'll guess that I will have to settle for annual visits.

A weak point of urbanism ideology - jobs, beyond neighborhood service ones, and corresponding economy just don't enter the consideration. Water comes from the tap, power from wall outlets, and food grows in a grocery store.

Outside of Honolulu there isn't even much opportunity for Urbanism-favored style infrastructure.  In general there wasn't much modern urban planning that went into any of the inhabited places in the rest of the islands.  Walkability certainly something you'll often find.

For example, with Lahaina, I mean you have road tunnels, you have road widenings, you can build a train, they're building a bypass, but are they gonna allow for more development? Especially for the people that live there and have been there a long time? who could definitely use some relief on housing prices. Maybe hold up public meeting and see what the needs of the community are.

I know he owned a ping pong club, and he was teaching breakdancing lessons, and he had it all burned down. I don't know what the answer is, but I know it's not doing anything and it's definitely refusing to build anything more.

[Max Rockatansky]

I wasn't going to point out what happened to Lahaina with the wildfire.  I think they got bigger priorities right now versus becoming the urbanism center of Maui. 

Even still, before the fire the Lahaina Bypass (Hawaii Route 3000) was doing a decent job of pulling traffic off the downtown streets.  I'll let you know what I think of the present state of the community after early November.  My wife and I are actually staying there for a week.

[Plutonic Panda]

I wasn't going to point out what happened to Lahaina with the wildfire.  I think they got bigger priorities right now versus becoming the urbanism center of Maui. 

Even still, before the fire the Lahaina Bypass (Hawaii Route 3000) was doing a decent job of pulling traffic off the downtown streets.  I'll let you know what I think of the present state of the community after early November.  My wife and I are actually staying there for a week.

Well, if the sentiment of the people of Lahaina or anything like my buddy whose family has lived there for generations and he's currently living there as I type this, it's sad. they would like the cost of living to be a little bit lower, cost of housing to be a little bit lower, and not take sometimes 2+ hours to go 30 miles.

You're not getting the same cheap housing you would get in Erik, OK or the same price a gallon, you would Cushing, but surely there has to be a better way.

[Plutonic Panda]

BTW enjoy your trip to Lahaina. I don't know how they've recovered, but personally I wouldn't wanna go there. I get depressed driving through the Palisades. I was just with one of my buddies a couple weeks ago. and they've started building his house, but I don't know what he's gonna do. I can tell when I look in his eyes, he's not the same person when we were watching his house being built. I'm lucky to be alive myself when all that went down, because I was up in Runyon Canyon when that fire broke out. Me and my friend in Lahaina, we've been slowly growing apart, so I haven't kept up with him over the last six months but there seems to pre pretty good spirit out there.

Driving to the Palisades is like, wow, I Mayor Bash just announced that new $2.7 billion rebuild of that recreation center. I forgot what it's called, but it's a public private partnership, one of the largest in the city's history.

[bing101]

Well, and this is a whole another topic, but with AI, you gotta kind of wonder what a lot of people are gonna do for work, wherever they live.

When it comes to building more and more buildings and bigger buildings, I face a dilemma, like when I first moved to Hollywood in 2015. I loved it I don't know how closely you follow development. outside of roads, but their proposing a lot of new shit and even what they've built so far has kind of changed the vibe of the area, and I'm not exactly thrilled with it.

And as you know, I'm not the biggest fan of complete streets either, but as cities get bigger, even I can't say that we don't need to adapt and rethink about how we move people. I'm pretty sure it was you that said this, but you specifically mentioned you weren't keen on more people moving up by your neck of the woods.

And I recall correctly, there are now more native islanders from Hawaii that live in Las Vegas that currently live on the island.

Oahu is already built up and I'm not exactly saying taking island like Maui and turn it into Singapore. But there does need to be much more infrastructure than what currently exists. If demand and prices are sky high, then why are we not seeing more proposals for skyscrapers?

https://www.hawaiipublicradio.org/local-news/2023-09-22/majority-of-native-hawaiians-dont-live-in-hawaii-us-census-report

Yes in this article it says more Hawaiians live on the mainland and the states that have the most native Hawaiians are Nevada, California and Washington. I remember this native Hawaiians living in places Fairfield, Sacramento, San Francisco at one time. I grew up seeing cars with Hawaiian license plates but was too young to understand that some of the diaspora was in defense and worked at Mare Island, Travis Air force base, Oakland Navy base at that time. 

But back to this one hope they make the best decision possible for urbanism and how to improve I-H1 in the Honolulu area.