Dead Malls

[TheCatalyst31]

Looks like Brookfield Square is headed in the direction of a dead mall. I emailed the Mayor of Brookfield recently about it but have yet to get a reply. The area around it is thriving so I think the only reason why the mall itself is failing is due to poor management. Looks like the Milwaukee metro area could soon be down to just 2 indoor malls.

As I have typed in here many times before, the late 20th century mall is a hopelessly obsolete business plan nearly everywhere,  The only one in Wisconsin that appears to me to still be doing OK is Bay Park Square in the Green Bay area (Ashwaubenon).  (I don't have any recent experience with the Madison, WI area.) Heck, I still barely remember Capitol Court in Milwaukee (it was at Capitol Dr/FdL Av) from a visit during my childhood.

Mike

The two big malls in Madison, East Towne and West Towne, are both surviving but not exactly thriving. I was at East Towne today to visit the Barnes & Noble, and parts of it still have good foot traffic but one wing is almost completely empty. They still haven't found anyone to replace the Sears or the Boston Store, the latter of which closed six years ago. I think West Towne is doing a little better, but I haven't been over there in a while.

Hilldale is doing great, but it's an outdoor mall with upscale stores, so it's not the traditional business model (which is probably why it's thriving).

I recently visited West Towne and I would say it's thriving. Very few vacancies in fact I think it's even doing better now than my last visit there 2 years ago. They even have a Build a Bear as a kiosk because there is no available spaces you can't do better than that.

West Towne is doing better than East Towne, but they still have an empty anchor store, which isn't ideal.

[mgk920]

Looks like Brookfield Square is headed in the direction of a dead mall. I emailed the Mayor of Brookfield recently about it but have yet to get a reply. The area around it is thriving so I think the only reason why the mall itself is failing is due to poor management. Looks like the Milwaukee metro area could soon be down to just 2 indoor malls.

As I have typed in here many times before, the late 20th century mall is a hopelessly obsolete business plan nearly everywhere,  The only one in Wisconsin that appears to me to still be doing OK is Bay Park Square in the Green Bay area (Ashwaubenon).  (I don't have any recent experience with the Madison, WI area.) Heck, I still barely remember Capitol Court in Milwaukee (it was at Capitol Dr/FdL Av) from a visit during my childhood.

Mike

The two big malls in Madison, East Towne and West Towne, are both surviving but not exactly thriving. I was at East Towne today to visit the Barnes & Noble, and parts of it still have good foot traffic but one wing is almost completely empty. They still haven't found anyone to replace the Sears or the Boston Store, the latter of which closed six years ago. I think West Towne is doing a little better, but I haven't been over there in a while.

Hilldale is doing great, but it's an outdoor mall with upscale stores, so it's not the traditional business model (which is probably why it's thriving).

I recently visited West Towne and I would say it's thriving. Very few vacancies in fact I think it's even doing better now than my last visit there 2 years ago. They even have a Build a Bear as a kiosk because there is no available spaces you can't do better than that.

West Towne is doing better than East Towne, but they still have an empty anchor store, which isn't ideal.

Although the 'mall' part looks strong, I firmly believe that Bay Park Square is only the 'relatively' strongest mall in the state.  when I visited it last week, the in-line part was busy with foot traffic, but there was only one anchor department store (Kohl's).  Where the other anchors were there is a Steinhofels (a regional furniture big-box chain), a Dave and Busters (a Chuckie cheese clone?) and a Hy-Vee grocery store.  There is also a full JCPenney store located across a main street from it.

Mike

[Big John]

^^Dave and Buster's is basically a Chuck E Cheese for adults.

[Flint1979]

I have talked to the guy that owns the Midland Mall in Midland, Michigan. He is a local guy and the mall not being owned by a real estate group is a good reason that the Midland Mall is doing well. The mall has a Target store, Hobby Lobby, Planet Fitness and a UofM Health. The Target has always been there, the Hobby Lobby took over for Younkers, Planet Fitness took over for JCPenney and UofM Health took over for Sears.

This is the complete opposite of the Tri-Cities other two malls. Fashion Square in Saginaw isn't doing very well and Bay City Town Center has no anchor stores at all. I walked into Bay City Town Center and you have a Marshalls, some race track with remote control cars, a Shoe Depot, Game Stop, a martial arts place, Bath and Body Works, some nail salon and a movie theater. That's about it, seriously the mall has 10 or fewer stores open. Some of the stores on the outside of the mall but don't have a mall entrance are Dunham's, Ollie's and Petsmart. It's nice to see the Midland Mall doing well though.

[thenetwork]

I have talked to the guy that owns the Midland Mall in Midland, Michigan. He is a local guy and the mall not being owned by a real estate group is a good reason that the Midland Mall is doing well. The mall has a Target store, Hobby Lobby, Planet Fitness and a UofM Health. The Target has always been there, the Hobby Lobby took over for Younkers, Planet Fitness took over for JCPenney and UofM Health took over for Sears.

This is the complete opposite of the Tri-Cities other two malls. Fashion Square in Saginaw isn't doing very well and Bay City Town Center has no anchor stores at all. I walked into Bay City Town Center and you have a Marshalls, some race track with remote control cars, a Shoe Depot, Game Stop, a martial arts place, Bath and Body Works, some nail salon and a movie theater. That's about it, seriously the mall has 10 or fewer stores open. Some of the stores on the outside of the mall but don't have a mall entrance are Dunham's, Ollie's and Petsmart. It's nice to see the Midland Mall doing well though.

It probably helps that the anchor stores are not multi-story buildings, as that makes it easier for a mall to divide or extend the mall wings further into the former department store space.

[Flint1979]

I have talked to the guy that owns the Midland Mall in Midland, Michigan. He is a local guy and the mall not being owned by a real estate group is a good reason that the Midland Mall is doing well. The mall has a Target store, Hobby Lobby, Planet Fitness and a UofM Health. The Target has always been there, the Hobby Lobby took over for Younkers, Planet Fitness took over for JCPenney and UofM Health took over for Sears.

This is the complete opposite of the Tri-Cities other two malls. Fashion Square in Saginaw isn't doing very well and Bay City Town Center has no anchor stores at all. I walked into Bay City Town Center and you have a Marshalls, some race track with remote control cars, a Shoe Depot, Game Stop, a martial arts place, Bath and Body Works, some nail salon and a movie theater. That's about it, seriously the mall has 10 or fewer stores open. Some of the stores on the outside of the mall but don't have a mall entrance are Dunham's, Ollie's and Petsmart. It's nice to see the Midland Mall doing well though.

It probably helps that the anchor stores are not multi-story buildings, as that makes it easier for a mall to divide or extend the mall wings further into the former department store space.

At Fashion Square in Saginaw, Sears only had one floor while Macy's and JCPenney both have two floors. Sears is obviously closed and has been for about 5 years now while JCPenney and Macy's are both still open. The Sears store just sits there empty and I'm guessing it's probably because Sears owns the building.

[SEWIGuy]

I have talked to the guy that owns the Midland Mall in Midland, Michigan. He is a local guy and the mall not being owned by a real estate group is a good reason that the Midland Mall is doing well. The mall has a Target store, Hobby Lobby, Planet Fitness and a UofM Health. The Target has always been there, the Hobby Lobby took over for Younkers, Planet Fitness took over for JCPenney and UofM Health took over for Sears.

This is the complete opposite of the Tri-Cities other two malls. Fashion Square in Saginaw isn't doing very well and Bay City Town Center has no anchor stores at all. I walked into Bay City Town Center and you have a Marshalls, some race track with remote control cars, a Shoe Depot, Game Stop, a martial arts place, Bath and Body Works, some nail salon and a movie theater. That's about it, seriously the mall has 10 or fewer stores open. Some of the stores on the outside of the mall but don't have a mall entrance are Dunham's, Ollie's and Petsmart. It's nice to see the Midland Mall doing well though.

It probably helps that the anchor stores are not multi-story buildings, as that makes it easier for a mall to divide or extend the mall wings further into the former department store space.

At Fashion Square in Saginaw, Sears only had one floor while Macy's and JCPenney both have two floors. Sears is obviously closed and has been for about 5 years now while JCPenney and Macy's are both still open. The Sears store just sits there empty and I'm guessing it's probably because Sears owns the building.

It would be extremely rare for Sears, or any anchor store, to outright own a store in a mall location. Usually they sit empty because the capital requirements for a new tenant are simply too much compared to a new build in a different location.

[Flint1979]

I have talked to the guy that owns the Midland Mall in Midland, Michigan. He is a local guy and the mall not being owned by a real estate group is a good reason that the Midland Mall is doing well. The mall has a Target store, Hobby Lobby, Planet Fitness and a UofM Health. The Target has always been there, the Hobby Lobby took over for Younkers, Planet Fitness took over for JCPenney and UofM Health took over for Sears.

This is the complete opposite of the Tri-Cities other two malls. Fashion Square in Saginaw isn't doing very well and Bay City Town Center has no anchor stores at all. I walked into Bay City Town Center and you have a Marshalls, some race track with remote control cars, a Shoe Depot, Game Stop, a martial arts place, Bath and Body Works, some nail salon and a movie theater. That's about it, seriously the mall has 10 or fewer stores open. Some of the stores on the outside of the mall but don't have a mall entrance are Dunham's, Ollie's and Petsmart. It's nice to see the Midland Mall doing well though.

It probably helps that the anchor stores are not multi-story buildings, as that makes it easier for a mall to divide or extend the mall wings further into the former department store space.

At Fashion Square in Saginaw, Sears only had one floor while Macy's and JCPenney both have two floors. Sears is obviously closed and has been for about 5 years now while JCPenney and Macy's are both still open. The Sears store just sits there empty and I'm guessing it's probably because Sears owns the building.

It would be extremely rare for Sears, or any anchor store, to outright own a store in a mall location. Usually they sit empty because the capital requirements for a new tenant are simply too much compared to a new build in a different location.

I know for a fact that Sears owns that space because when the mall was sold Macy's and Sears were not included and the Sears store is for sale as well.

[GaryV]

There was a story in the Detroit News today about the lonely Santa at Fairlane Town Center. There's so few shoppers that Santa sometimes sits for a half hour or more without anyone sitting on his lap.
(I'd post a link, but it's paywalled)

[SEWIGuy]

I have talked to the guy that owns the Midland Mall in Midland, Michigan. He is a local guy and the mall not being owned by a real estate group is a good reason that the Midland Mall is doing well. The mall has a Target store, Hobby Lobby, Planet Fitness and a UofM Health. The Target has always been there, the Hobby Lobby took over for Younkers, Planet Fitness took over for JCPenney and UofM Health took over for Sears.

This is the complete opposite of the Tri-Cities other two malls. Fashion Square in Saginaw isn't doing very well and Bay City Town Center has no anchor stores at all. I walked into Bay City Town Center and you have a Marshalls, some race track with remote control cars, a Shoe Depot, Game Stop, a martial arts place, Bath and Body Works, some nail salon and a movie theater. That's about it, seriously the mall has 10 or fewer stores open. Some of the stores on the outside of the mall but don't have a mall entrance are Dunham's, Ollie's and Petsmart. It's nice to see the Midland Mall doing well though.

It probably helps that the anchor stores are not multi-story buildings, as that makes it easier for a mall to divide or extend the mall wings further into the former department store space.

At Fashion Square in Saginaw, Sears only had one floor while Macy's and JCPenney both have two floors. Sears is obviously closed and has been for about 5 years now while JCPenney and Macy's are both still open. The Sears store just sits there empty and I'm guessing it's probably because Sears owns the building.

It would be extremely rare for Sears, or any anchor store, to outright own a store in a mall location. Usually they sit empty because the capital requirements for a new tenant are simply too much compared to a new build in a different location.

I know for a fact that Sears owns that space because when the mall was sold Macy's and Sears were not included and the Sears store is for sale as well.

That doesn't necessarily mean that Sears owns the space. But I obviously don't know.

[GCrites]

I have talked to the guy that owns the Midland Mall in Midland, Michigan. He is a local guy and the mall not being owned by a real estate group is a good reason that the Midland Mall is doing well. The mall has a Target store, Hobby Lobby, Planet Fitness and a UofM Health. The Target has always been there, the Hobby Lobby took over for Younkers, Planet Fitness took over for JCPenney and UofM Health took over for Sears.

This is the complete opposite of the Tri-Cities other two malls. Fashion Square in Saginaw isn't doing very well and Bay City Town Center has no anchor stores at all. I walked into Bay City Town Center and you have a Marshalls, some race track with remote control cars, a Shoe Depot, Game Stop, a martial arts place, Bath and Body Works, some nail salon and a movie theater. That's about it, seriously the mall has 10 or fewer stores open. Some of the stores on the outside of the mall but don't have a mall entrance are Dunham's, Ollie's and Petsmart. It's nice to see the Midland Mall doing well though.

It probably helps that the anchor stores are not multi-story buildings, as that makes it easier for a mall to divide or extend the mall wings further into the former department store space.

At Fashion Square in Saginaw, Sears only had one floor while Macy's and JCPenney both have two floors. Sears is obviously closed and has been for about 5 years now while JCPenney and Macy's are both still open. The Sears store just sits there empty and I'm guessing it's probably because Sears owns the building.

It would be extremely rare for Sears, or any anchor store, to outright own a store in a mall location. Usually they sit empty because the capital requirements for a new tenant are simply too much compared to a new build in a different location.

It varies. The anchor spaces in the malls where I have owned stores had some anchor spaces owned by the mall whereas others were owned by the store. Within some malls it even varied. When the Elder-Beerman next to my store closed due to their bankruptcy the mall bought the space about a year later. At the other end of the mall Sears sold their space to a church after the Sears closed. At one of the other malls where I had a store the mall owned them all and rented them out to various entities almost immediately after they closed.

[Flint1979]

I just wanted to know so I went and looked at the assessor's page for Saginaw County.

The following is what I got for the owners:

Northern end of the property where the former Sears was located.

TF SAGINAW MI LLC
DEPT 36134
5407 TRILLIUM BLVD STE B120
HOFFMAN ESTATES, IL 60179

Then this is what I got for Macy's.

MAY DEPARTMENT STORES CO
TAX DEPARTMENT
145 PROGRESS PLACE
CINCINNATI, OH 45246

This is what I got for the rest of the mall property and JCPenney.

FASHION SQUARE MALL REALTY HOLDING
--
1010 NORTHERN BLVD STE 212
GREAT NECK, NY 11021

So I guess Sears did and probably still does own the building and so does Macy's. I never really knew.

[Voyager]

The Tanforan Mall in San Bruno has interestingly found some way to survive this year - they added a gym and a car dealership (?!?) that replaced the Mervyns. That being said, I'm so glad that thing is being redeveloped soon.

[TheStranger]

The Tanforan Mall in San Bruno has interestingly found some way to survive this year - they added a gym and a car dealership (?!?) that replaced the Mervyns. That being said, I'm so glad that thing is being redeveloped soon.

The car dealership (which is in the former Sears building - Mervyns was at Serramonte in Daly City instead and that store just became a Korean food hall/grocery) is temporary; they've mentioned they'll move across the street to a lot next to Jack's Restaurant sometime in the near future (and construction has already started).

That being said:

- the redevelopment plans that have been depicted in San Mateo's newspaper show Target moving to the El Camino side of the property, rather than the current location in the old Emporium-Capwell structure at Huntington

- IIRC wasn't the mall supposed to be entirely closed by midway this year?  Which very much did not happen.

- On the east side of the mall is the new Southline development which seems to have multiple multi-story office buildings and possible ground-floor retail, though that's not open yet.  South Maple Avenue and Huntington Avenue have been reconfigured to improve access to downtown South San Francisco area from the Tanforan district.

[Voyager]

The Tanforan Mall in San Bruno has interestingly found some way to survive this year - they added a gym and a car dealership (?!?) that replaced the Mervyns. That being said, I'm so glad that thing is being redeveloped soon.

The car dealership (which is in the former Sears building - Mervyns was at Serramonte in Daly City instead and that store just became a Korean food hall/grocery) is temporary; they've mentioned they'll move across the street to a lot next to Jack's Restaurant sometime in the near future (and construction has already started).

That being said:

- the redevelopment plans that have been depicted in San Mateo's newspaper show Target moving to the El Camino side of the property, rather than the current location in the old Emporium-Capwell structure at Huntington

- IIRC wasn't the mall supposed to be entirely closed by midway this year?  Which very much did not happen.

- On the east side of the mall is the new Southline development which seems to have multiple multi-story office buildings and possible ground-floor retail, though that's not open yet.  South Maple Avenue and Huntington Avenue have been reconfigured to improve access to downtown South San Francisco area from the Tanforan district.

Regarding Southline - I was wondering what that was, you can see the construction from Caltrain very easily. The at grade crossings there are on their list to separate next (along with Broadway in Burlingame). The malls plans seem to keep changing? I thought the JC Penny in Serramonte was going to be converted to a theater to replace the AMC at one point, but I guess that's not happening. I guess they could just take back the cinedomes a few blocks over if they haven't fallen apart entirely yet.

[TheStranger]

Regarding Southline - I was wondering what that was, you can see the construction from Caltrain very easily. The at grade crossings there are on their list to separate next (along with Broadway in Burlingame). The malls plans seem to keep changing? I thought the JC Penny in Serramonte was going to be converted to a theater to replace the AMC at one point, but I guess that's not happening. I guess they could just take back the cinedomes a few blocks over if they haven't fallen apart entirely yet.

More info on Southline can be found here - https://www.southlinessf.com/ - I THINK part of this also involves using the new "Southline Avenue" to directly connect Sneath and South Linden too.  Here's a render which actually shows an at-grade rail crossing on the new street:
https://www.southlinessf.com/#Gallery

Here's a map of the street reconfigurations:

[Scott5114]

Here's a map of the street reconfigurations:

Sneath!

[Stephane Dumas]

I saw this vlog by luck and it's hard to believe then Gen Z wants to bring malls back.

Gen Z is nostalgic for the traditional mall experience and seeks to revive them as social and cultural hubs, valuing in-person shopping and social connections despite the rise of online retail.

00:00 Gen Z nostalgically wants to revive shopping malls for their social experiences, despite their decline due to online shopping.

03:23 Gen Z longs for the nostalgic mall experience, valuing social connections and unique shopping opportunities despite being digital natives.

07:33 Gen Z is eager to revive malls for nostalgia and job creation, shopping in physical stores like older generations while encouraging online brands to establish physical locations.

10:13 Gen Z is nostalgic for traditional retail and wants to revive malls despite the decline of many beloved stores and the impact of online shopping.

12:11 Gen Z yearns to revive traditional malls for their nostalgic toy displays, social experiences, and the joy of comparison shopping.

15:39 Gen Z wants to revive malls as cultural and social hubs, yearning for the vibrant in-person shopping experiences of the past amid the decline of physical retail.

19:51 Gen Z wants malls back, urging retailers to prioritize social consciousness and authentic reviews while advocating for lower rents and repurposing empty spaces.

22:38 Gen Z expresses a desire for the return of malls, despite uncertainty about their revival.

[mgk920]

I saw this vlog by luck and it's hard to believe then Gen Z wants to bring malls back.

I saw that, too.  All that I can say is that they had better hurry up ! ! !

Mike

[mgk920]

Thinking it through farther, I myself am longing for the excitement and built environment of the downtown area of the city.  They, like I, want a 'place' to gather, belong to, meet up socially and be seen.  For a while it was the late 20th century mall, now more and more it is the traditional downtown area.

Mike

[LM117]

The city of Wilson has finally taken ownership of the Wilson Mall. Demolition on the property is expected to begin by fall.

https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/wilsontimes/city-making-plans-to-tear-down-buildings-at-former-wilson-mall/?pub=wilsontimes

The demolition could take up to a year or more.

https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/wilsontimes/mall-demolition-process-could-take-a-year/?pub=wilsontimes

Assistant City Manager Rodger Lentz told City Council on Thursday that it could be a year or longer before the city-owned Wilson Mall is torn down.

Lentz announced at the monthly work session that a contract will soon be awarded for asbestos removal from the roof of the former Wilson Mall.

Director of Public Works Bill Bass said demolition comes in two phases, meaning the mall may not actually be torn down for another year or so. He said the planning phase, including an environmental assessment, could take 10 months to complete. From there, the city will be able to tear down the property.

The mall's purchase was made possible through a federal grant with the American Rescue Plan Act. Federal grant projects, like Wilson's train station and the Reid Street Community Center, require environmental assessments and must be approved before projects can move forward.

"It doesn't just mean you're looking to see if there's an endangered critter out there," Lentz said. "It's a very thorough environmental report."

Lentz said environmental assessments are lengthy and take a number of factors into consideration, such as disturbing historic significance.

"I was ready to start the Reid Street Project six months ago," Lentz said. "You can't spend money or do any work until you get this clearance, and if an agency says, 'Wait a minute, I have more questions.' It could take even longer."

City Manager Grant Goings said the problem of timeliness isn't unique to Wilson.

"Cities all over America are dealing with this," Goings said. "We're just in the same boat as everybody else. In addition to bureaucratic delays, most cities in America got this grant money at the exact same time. I couldn't tell you how long it's going to take to pass these dollar through. It's just going to take however long it's going to take."

Lentz said the city is able to demolish the mall without touching or harming Roses, which still operates in the former Belk building.

"Roses is a completely standalone building, so there might be some blocking up that we have to do on the entrance that would've gone into the mall, but we can go ahead with demolition up to the Roses." Lentz said.

Lentz also addressed the pavement resurfacing in front of AMC theater. Lentz said the resurfacing was not the city's doing. The Augusta, Georgia-based Hull Property Group still owns the mall's outparcels, including AMC Classic 10's facility. The paving was a curious choice to Lentz, who wondered why the property owners would pave the parking lot before demolition on the mall's outparcels was complete.

"It's their money," Lentz said. "I suppose they can do what they want to with it."

I was in Wilson last month and stopped by the mall. The old Kroger building was already being torn down and should be long gone by now. I dropped in Roses and asked one of the employees how much longer Roses is gonna remain there. The guy told me they would be there until 2025.

That guy was right. Roses is leaving the mall at the end of February and moving to a new location on US-301 in Wilson. Their new location is expected to open this summer.

https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/wilsontimes/roses-announces-new-wilson-store-site/?pubid=thewilsontimes

[roadman65]

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/17kBeXhdDg/
Livingston Mall in Livingston, NJ.

[Flint1979]

The Macy's store at Oakland Mall, Lakeside Mall, Grand Traverse Mall and Genesee Valley Mall will all be closing in March. Genesee Valley will only have JCPenney as an anchor store after this happens.

[Brandon]

The Macy's store at Oakland Mall, Lakeside Mall, Grand Traverse Mall and Genesee Valley Mall will all be closing in March. Genesee Valley will only have JCPenney as an anchor store after this happens.

Macy's seems to be in retreat everywhere.

Other regional stores include White Oaks Mall in Springfield, IL, leaving the mall without a traditional anchor, and Franklin Park Mall in Toledo, OH.

[Big John]

PDF of 66 Macy's locations to be closed: https://s202.q4cdn.com/285121676/files/doc_downloads/investors/FY-2024-Year-End-Closures-1-9-2025.pdf