Proposal to raise speed limit in Kansas resurfaces

[route56]

http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/Speed-limit-could-increase-to-75-on-some-Kansas/o1rLqaURTUa3SDTgsU44Og.cspx
http://kslegislature.com/li/b2011_12/year1/measures/hb2034/

As the title indicates, a legislator, Marvin Kleeb (R-Overland Park) has introduced a bill that would raise the maximum speed on freeways and expressways from 70 to 75.

The last time this came up, the bill passed both houses, but a slight difference in the language of the two bills sent it to committee, where the bill was stripped and replaced with a transportation authorization bill.

Also on the transportation committee's plate:

http://kslegislature.com/li/b2011_12/year1/measures/hb2003/

HB 2003 would designate K-18 from US 81 west to the Russell/Lincoln County Line as the "Medal of Honor recipient Donald K. Ross highway."

http://kslegislature.com/li/b2011_12/year1/measures/hb2058/

HB 2058 allows a motorcycle to treat a red light as a stop sign if, after a reasonable period of time, the light fails to turn green due to a signal malfunction or if the signal fails to detect the vehicle.

Across the aisle in the Senate Transportation Committee, there is one bill proposed

http://kslegislature.com/li/b2011_12/year1/measures/sb58/

SB 58 would designate the recently rebuilt State Avenue/K-7 junction as the Representative Margaret Long interchange

[ShawnP]

West of Salina on I-70 75-80 is very safe as the road is straight and the site lines good.

[corco]

It would certainly be good economics- I know in Laramie (and points west, obviously) the preferred route to Lawrence or Wichita or Tulsa or something by people who went that direction often was to take I-80 as far into Nebraska as possible and then cut south. The speed limit on Kansas's 2-lane roads is 65 and folks didn't have to hassle with the Front Range, so it ended up being faster to go that way. If the speed limit went up to 75 on I-70 in Kansas, that would likely be a game changer.

[agentsteel53]

there are expressways (roads with at-grade crossings) in Kansas with speed limit 70?  which ones?  highest I recall is 65 off the interstate grid.

75 would be nice.  in the western part of the state, 85 would make sense.  it starts getting pretty out-in-the-sticks as you approach Colorado. 

[okroads]

there are expressways (roads with at-grade crossings) in Kansas with speed limit 70?  which ones?  highest I recall is 65 off the interstate grid.  

U.S. 75 from Topeka to Holton & K-254 between Wichita & El Dorado have a a 70 speed limit.

[J N Winkler]

there are expressways (roads with at-grade crossings) in Kansas with speed limit 70?  which ones?  highest I recall is 65 off the interstate grid.

There are plenty of expressways (AASHTO definition) in Kansas with a 70 speed limit--K-96 between Maize and Hutchinson, K-177 between I-70 and Manhattan, to name just a few.  I anticipate 70 for K-61 between McPherson and Lindsborg and US 50 between Garden City and Holcomb when they are finished.

75 would be nice.  in the western part of the state, 85 would make sense.  it starts getting pretty out-in-the-sticks as you approach Colorado.

I don't particularly care one way or another.  What difference does 5 miles make once driving breaks are factored in?  In any case the real problem with I-70 in western Kansas is heavy Highway Patrol enforcement.  It is not uncommon for a person trying to go well above 70 to be stopped multiple times, and ticketed each time, by the Highway Patrol on a cross-state trip.  People who set their cruise control systems at the speed limit and pace themselves usually traverse the 414 miles faster than those who have to deal with Highway Patrol stops.

I-80 in Nebraska does have more of a "draw" factor for people on long-distance drives because it has a museums alley west of York (AAA "star" museums in Grand Island, Aurora, Minden, and Hastings), while I-70 has just the Sternberg Museum (Hays), St. Fidelis Church (Victoria), and the Garden of Eden (Lucas)--all of which are (IMO) worth visiting but are not rated by the AAA as "star" attractions.

[agentsteel53]

I don't particularly care one way or another.  What difference does 5 miles make once driving breaks are factored in?  In any case the real problem with I-70 in western Kansas is heavy Highway Patrol enforcement.  It is not uncommon for a person trying to go well above 70 to be stopped multiple times, and ticketed each time, by the Highway Patrol on a cross-state trip.  People who set their cruise control systems at the speed limit and pace themselves usually traverse the 414 miles faster than those who have to deal with Highway Patrol stops.

and that's precisely why the speed limit should be 85... because everyone knows the road and the level of traffic support such a speed, but of course it's 70 that's posted and 75-80 or so that is enforced. 

also... getting stopped and ticketed multiple times is not uncommon???  are people just slow to learn or something?  I've gotten pulled over only once in Kansas.  About the Russell area, so not even all that far west.  92 and got off with a verbal warning.  kept it at 77 the rest of the way. 

[J N Winkler]

and that's precisely why the speed limit should be 85... because everyone knows the road and the level of traffic support such a speed, but of course it's 70 that's posted and 75-80 or so that is enforced.

It varies.  I have never been stopped for speeding on an Interstate because I generally don't speed for sustained distances on freeways, but I have been stopped (not ticketed) for 69 in a 65 when driving two-lane in far western Kansas, and back when the Interstate speed limit was still 65, my father was stopped (also not ticketed) for 69 in a 65 on the Turnpike.  I don't think it is just high speed per se that attracts Highway Patrol attention; I think they also pay attention to people who drive at a steady speed over the limit for long distances outside of contexts which demand short bursts of speed, such as passing on two-lane highways.

The one and only ticket I have received in almost twenty years of driving was issued by a KHP trooper on K-177 between I-70 and Manhattan.  It was then two-lane, being expanded to four lanes divided at the time, with no construction operations in progress within the clear zone of the roadway then open to traffic.  The speed limit before construction was 65, during construction 55, and after construction 70.  I was nailed for 66 in a 55 and the KHP trooper told me specifically that he was not letting me off the hook because it was a construction zone.  I pled nolo contendere and paid the ticket, and although the excess of the cited speed over the limit was 1 MPH above the threshold which allows auto insurers to charge higher rates under Kansas law, our auto insurer decided to give me a free pass.

also... getting stopped and ticketed multiple times is not uncommon???  are people just slow to learn or something?

I think it's a case of "Head, meet rear.  I'm sure you have a lot in common."

[rarnold]

US 54 between Goddard and Kingman is 70 MPH. The 4-lane section between Garden City and the airport east of town and the short 4-lane section of US 54 west of Liberal to the OK border are both 65 MPH.

[Revive 755]

there are expressways (roads with at-grade crossings) in Kansas with speed limit 70?  which ones?  highest I recall is 65 off the interstate grid.

US 24 between Topeka and Lawrence has a 70 mph section - I'm somewhat surprised this section hasn't drawn objections from the KTA, as it makes avoiding the turnpike somewhat nicer (though around Lawrence usually makes the turnpike the better choice).

[J N Winkler]

US 54 between Goddard and Kingman is 70 MPH.

Actually, most of that length (though not all of it) is full freeway, and has been since the 1970's.  The Kingman bypass, which is currently in design, will tie in to it at the western end and will also be full freeway.

[Henry]

I don't particularly care one way or another.  What difference does 5 miles make once driving breaks are factored in?  In any case the real problem with I-70 in western Kansas is heavy Highway Patrol enforcement.  It is not uncommon for a person trying to go well above 70 to be stopped multiple times, and ticketed each time, by the Highway Patrol on a cross-state trip.  People who set their cruise control systems at the speed limit and pace themselves usually traverse the 414 miles faster than those who have to deal with Highway Patrol stops.

and that's precisely why the speed limit should be 85... because everyone knows the road and the level of traffic support such a speed, but of course it's 70 that's posted and 75-80 or so that is enforced. 

also... getting stopped and ticketed multiple times is not uncommon???  are people just slow to learn or something?  I've gotten pulled over only once in Kansas.  About the Russell area, so not even all that far west.  92 and got off with a verbal warning.  kept it at 77 the rest of the way. 

I like that idea! In fact, they had 80 on the Turnpike back in the 1960s and early 70s, IIRC.

[Chris]

It's a good thing to read about all these speed limit raises in the United States. The same is happening all over Europe, for example Poland raised the speed limit to 140 km/h or 87 miles per hour this year.

My main argument for raising speed limits is not actually the exact travel time savings, but a speed limit that suits the road layout and surrounding area, in a way the posted speed limit feels credible and comfortable while driving. I can't believe the 65 mph limit on rural freeways in Illinois and Wisconsin for example, in Europe such freeways would be limited at 75 or 80 mph with a 5 - 10% tolerance.

[route56]

UPDATE!:

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2011/apr/01/lawmakers-consider-boosting-speed-limit-some-kansa

A bill raising the speed limit to 75 has cleared both the house and the Senate and is on its way to the Governor.

EDIT: I found the bill that cleared both houses. It is HB 2192. In addition to raising the speed limit, it incorporates other bills that had gone through the legislature during this session.

• Allowing a motorcycle or bicycle to treat a red light as a stop sign should the signal fail to detect them.
  
• Making the state seat belt law uniform, disallowing cities from having a higher fine for seat belt violations.
  
• Raising KHP vehicle inspection rates from $10/hour to $15/hour starting July 1, 2011, then up to $20/hour starting 7/1/12.

[/EDIT]

Somehow, I don't see a veto as being very likely.

[J N Winkler]

The Wichita Eagle this morning had an article about the 75 MPH bill.  Probably the most interesting and valuable part is the "How fast in the past" fact box:

http://www.kansas.com/2011/04/10/1801633/will-higher-speed-limit-mean-more.html

Some of the information was new to me:

*  The lack of a general speed limit on state highways before 1957 (not just the Turnpike)

*  The reduction of the Turnpike speed limit in 1970 from 80 MPH to 75 MPH day/70 MPH night

*  The 55 MPH zones on the Turnpike around Wichita and Topeka, 1987-1993 (the rest of the Turnpike was 65 MPH for most of this period)

*  The jump in Turnpike speed limit from 55 MPH to 65 MPH in two steps in 1987 (Emporia-Topeka had to wait until the I-335 designation, which was not applied until after the Turnpike was already 65 MPH elsewhere)

I think, however, that the "reasonable and prudent" phrase is wrong.  That is what derestriction was called in Montana, but in Kansas it was known as "reasonable and proper."

Signing and delineation for the Turnpike in 1956, when it opened, was handled through just one contract, which had no provision for speed limit signs in the modern sense, or even signs to indicate the existence of a "reasonable and proper" basic speed rule.  There were signs to indicate a 40 MPH minimum speed.  (I think these signs may have been later modified to add the 80 MPH maximum speed as an additional line above the existing legend.)  The northern end of the Turnpike, near the 18th Street Expressway interchange, was a restricted speed zone with posted speed limits.  The transition from the derestricted length was handled using "SPEED ZONE AHEAD" signing.

[J N Winkler]

Governor Brownback has signed the 75 MPH speed limit bill:

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/04/20/2814361/top-kansas-speed-limit-will-increase.html

New limits can begin to appear after July 1.  It remains to be seen whether rural freeways statewide will go to 75 in an overnight sign-plating operation, as happened in March 1996 when the 70 MPH speed limit took effect.

[Scott5114]

Congratulations, Kansas! Does this raise the general speed limit on all Kansas freeways, or just those in the western part of the state?

It would be awesome to see Oklahoma raise their general speed limit to 75 freeway/80 turnpike...

[J N Winkler]

AIUI, the new law only allows the KDOT secretary to authorize 75 MPH limits on divided highways.  I expect this authorization to be given readily for all rural freeways maintained by KDOT.  The real questionable cases are the Turnpike (whose CEO has said it will be watching what KDOT does) and expressways with flat intersections like K-96 northwest of Wichita, K-177 between Manhattan and I-70, US 75 north of Topeka, K-61 between Hutchinson and McPherson, etc.

[route56]

The real questionable cases are the Turnpike (whose CEO has said it will be watching what KDOT does) and expressways with flat intersections like K-96 northwest of Wichita, K-177 between Manhattan and I-70, US 75 north of Topeka, K-61 between Hutchinson and McPherson, etc.

I'd also think that K-10 may be questionable as well. Obviously, the movement to have crossover cables installed on K-10 has gained momentum, and I'm inclined to believe that the fatal crash rate for K-10 is higher than other comparable stretches of rural freeway.

[route56]

KDOT has announced where the 75 MPH limit will be posted.

http://bit.ly/iwT9nc (KDOT press release)
http://bit.ly/mAGJ4F (map)

* The Kansas Turnpike from Oklahoma to K-7
* I-70 from the Colorado Line to Topeka area, plus the turnpike west of K-7
* I-35 from US 50 east of Emporia to Gardner, plus the Turnpike
* I-135 and US 81 from 85th Street North (Press release says it's in Harvey County, however, the map and my exit guide indicate it's in Sedgwick County) to the end of the freeway north of Minneapolis
* US 69 from just north of US 54 to 199th Street in Johnson County.

Basically, it appears the KDOT has selected only the long-distance freeway segments for uprating to 75, leaving freeway segments such as US 75 south of Topeka, US 54 west of Wichita, and K-10 at 70, at least for now.

[situveux1]

Very interesting that KDOT left K-10 off the list. Having been a regular K-10 commuter for 3 years, I think that's an excellent decision.

Also very interesting that KDOT will be posting the new sign overlays on June 30 but notes you can't do 75 until July 1. I was barely in high school when they went from 55 to 65 and 65 to 70, but I thought when that happened that as soon as the sign was posted you could go faster. Since all of these changes are being made to roads that probably have heavy out of state traffic, I wonder how they plan to let those folks know that 75 isn't in vogue until tomorrow???

And 85th Street is in Sedgwick County. Odd that neither KDOT nor any of the news outlets caught that mistake, especially the ones in Wichita.

[agentsteel53]

Also very interesting that KDOT will be posting the new sign overlays on June 30 but notes you can't do 75 until July 1.

I predict a lot of speeding tickets, dated June 30th, being thrown out of court.

[J N Winkler]

Also very interesting that KDOT will be posting the new sign overlays on June 30 but notes you can't do 75 until July 1. I was barely in high school when they went from 55 to 65 and 65 to 70, but I thought when that happened that as soon as the sign was posted you could go faster. Since all of these changes are being made to roads that probably have heavy out of state traffic, I wonder how they plan to let those folks know that 75 isn't in vogue until tomorrow???

I remember well what happened in March 1996 when the NMSL was abolished.  The Legislature had passed a new speed limit law tied to the effective date of the NHSDA (which contained a provision abolishing NMSL) and both KDOT and the KTA had new speed limits all ready to go for the Interstates and other freeways, whose speed limit signs were all plated over between midnight and sunrise on the day when the new limits took effect.  However, speed limit signs on rural two-lane state highways were not plated over immediately, since KDOT did not complete the necessary surveys and publish the new limits until several months later.  For the interim period the Highway Patrol announced that it would not be ticketing people for going between 55 and 65 MPH on those roads, including on roads which would keep 55 MPH speed limits when the surveys were completed, but that local law enforcement still had the option of enforcing the limits as signed and that any tickets they might issue would be valid.  I am not aware that any tickets were dismissed on the basis of prospective increase in the speed limit.

And 85th Street is in Sedgwick County. Odd that neither KDOT nor any of the news outlets caught that mistake, especially the ones in Wichita.

Yup, 85th Street is the main access to Valley Center, which is in Sedgwick County, and is one way to the Kansas Coliseum, which is owned by Sedgwick County.  (I think 85th Street between ex-US 81 and Valley Center was on the state highway system at one point.)  Here's the Eagle version:

http://www.kansas.com/2011/06/21/1902091/heres-where-you-can-drive-75-mph.html

The byline says "Eagle staff," which is usually code for cut-and-paste from a press release.  Possibly the error may be caught if the paper chooses to do an in-depth story.  It has already been pointed out in the comments section.  The Harvey County line straddles 125th St.

[situveux1]

Well then that explains my memory because we lived in Marion County and hardly ever dove on the interstate. I guess in the end it's all academic because if your ticketed for 76 or more you're still breaking the limit, old or new. I don't know of anybody being ticketed for doing 71 to 74 in a 70 zone.

[route56]

US 24 between Topeka and Lawrence has a 70 mph section - I'm somewhat surprised this section hasn't drawn objections from the KTA, as it makes avoiding the turnpike somewhat nicer (though around Lawrence usually makes the turnpike the better choice).

Seeing as how the turnpike is going to 75 while the alternate routes (US 24 and K-10) will have a maximum speed limit of 70, I doubt the KTA will have much to complain about

Of course, i expect the segment between MM 201 and MM 212 to remain at 60 MPH for a while due to the two construction projects along that segment (KS bridge replacement and full-depth resurfacing)