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Author Topic: Vermont  (Read 110613 times)

froggie

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #475 on: February 01, 2020, 01:09:32 PM »

Quote from: astralentity
What I'm seeing is they're using the "Town of xx" signs on surface roads, like my example above at the Shoreham/Addison line on VT 22A.

The problem here is that Shoreham and Addison aren't adjacent.  Bridport is in between.  Did you mean Addison/Bridport?  I'm not aware of anything at that location.

A photo of the sign in question would help.
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astralentity

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #476 on: February 03, 2020, 07:04:12 AM »

Quote from: astralentity
What I'm seeing is they're using the "Town of xx" signs on surface roads, like my example above at the Shoreham/Addison line on VT 22A.

The problem here is that Shoreham and Addison aren't adjacent.  Bridport is in between.  Did you mean Addison/Bridport?  I'm not aware of anything at that location.

A photo of the sign in question would help.

Yes, you're correct.  I had a jumble of things in my head at the time I posted.  It's the Addison/Bridport line heading north on 22A.  Next time I'm there I'll take a pic.

I guess that's what happens when you've traveled the entirety of 22A from Granville to Ferrisburgh and back several times in your life  :spin:
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bob7374

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #477 on: April 20, 2020, 11:33:40 PM »

VTrans has created a webpage devoted to its upcoming placement of 'milepoint' exit number signs throughout the state. Like MassDOT they created an interactive map that shows the new milepost exit number and the corresponding, to be kept, for now, sequential number. They also have exit lists by highway, including for US 4 and US 7 and VT 289 (showing no new numbers). They are assigning the milepost exit numbers to all exits, even interstate to interstate, for example the I-93 milepost numbers for the I-91 exit will be 11 A and B.

The website: https://vtrans.vermont.gov/projects/exit-numbering

shadyjay

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #478 on: April 21, 2020, 12:07:55 AM »

Still think its a waste of time and money.  They're going through the trouble to make these new signs, which I think will just add to the confusion.  Instead, they could've made this website to educate the public on the new mile-based exits, then gone around and slapped up the new numbers on the existing signs, except replacing a few gores/tabs which are too small to accommodate 3 digits. 

But I digress...
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amroad17

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #479 on: April 21, 2020, 01:17:52 AM »

Still think its a waste of time and money.  They're going through the trouble to make these new signs, which I think will just add to the confusion.  Instead, they could've made this website to educate the public on the new mile-based exits, then gone around and slapped up the new numbers on the existing signs, except replacing a few gores/tabs which are too small to accommodate 3 digits. 

But I digress...
This could be their way of grooming the public on mile-based exits.  Instead of changing the EXIT signs to the mile-based numbers and having a supplemental OLD EXIT xx, in this way, they are preparing for the mile-based exit numbers while still retaining the "traditional" sequential numbers so as not to "upset the apple cart" for Vermont citizens.

Seems to be a recurring theme for much of the New England states--and to some extent, New York.
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bob7374

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #480 on: June 09, 2020, 03:46:35 PM »

Based on a post to several Private FB road groups, Vermont has started putting up its 'Milepoint Exit #' signs along I-89. A photo in the post shows Exit 2 with the Milepoint Exit 13 tab at the bottom. Based on a comment the tabs have been added at least as far north as Exit 17 (MP 97). According to the post Vermont doesn't plan to change the existing sequential exit numbers until the next round of sign replacement around 2030. Road trip anyone?

Update. I've gotten permission to post the photo from Steve Goodwin on my New England Exit Renumbering website:
« Last Edit: June 09, 2020, 10:44:01 PM by bob7374 »
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machias

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #481 on: June 09, 2020, 06:56:11 PM »

Still think its a waste of time and money.  They're going through the trouble to make these new signs, which I think will just add to the confusion.  Instead, they could've made this website to educate the public on the new mile-based exits, then gone around and slapped up the new numbers on the existing signs, except replacing a few gores/tabs which are too small to accommodate 3 digits. 

But I digress...
This could be their way of grooming the public on mile-based exits.  Instead of changing the EXIT signs to the mile-based numbers and having a supplemental OLD EXIT xx, in this way, they are preparing for the mile-based exit numbers while still retaining the "traditional" sequential numbers so as not to "upset the apple cart" for Vermont citizens.

Seems to be a recurring theme for much of the New England states--and to some extent, New York.

You have to feel bad for motorists and others who base their whole identity on their exit number
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shadyjay

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #482 on: June 09, 2020, 08:12:26 PM »

I still find it amusing that the one road in Vermont with mile-based exits is losing exit numbers completely as part of this project.  Granted, the mile markers count up from a southern terminus that hasn't (and probably never will be) built.  But, amusing nevertheless.

Wonder if anyone would notice if the one exit on I-93 just became the mile-based number, without this milepoint b/s. 
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vdeane

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #483 on: June 09, 2020, 09:14:57 PM »

I still find it amusing that the one road in Vermont with mile-based exits is losing exit numbers completely as part of this project.  Granted, the mile markers count up from a southern terminus that hasn't (and probably never will be) built.  But, amusing nevertheless.

Wonder if anyone would notice if the one exit on I-93 just became the mile-based number, without this milepoint b/s. 
They're taking away the exit numbers on VT 289?  I thought the reason the "milepoint exit" column said "N/A" was because the exit numbers were already mileage-based.
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Alps

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #484 on: June 09, 2020, 10:46:42 PM »

I still find it amusing that the one road in Vermont with mile-based exits is losing exit numbers completely as part of this project.  Granted, the mile markers count up from a southern terminus that hasn't (and probably never will be) built.  But, amusing nevertheless.

Wonder if anyone would notice if the one exit on I-93 just became the mile-based number, without this milepoint b/s. 
They're taking away the exit numbers on VT 289?  I thought the reason the "milepoint exit" column said "N/A" was because the exit numbers were already mileage-based.
This.

shadyjay

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #485 on: June 11, 2020, 12:47:39 AM »

Didn't think of that.  I assumed they were removing the exit numbers since they count from a future that will most likely never occur.  But yeah they could be left alone.  I guess we'll wait and see.
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bob7374

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #486 on: June 16, 2020, 12:06:21 AM »

Meanwhile, it now looks like it won't be until 2035 until Vermont renumbers its exits:
https://www.wcax.com/content/news/Mile-markers-added-to-Vermont-interstate-exits-571269701.html

vdeane

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #487 on: June 16, 2020, 02:30:44 PM »

Yikes.  This just keeps getting worse.  15 years from now?  Might as well be never.  And no, VT, the feds did not mandate little plaques, they mandated conversion... the plaques are just your way of trying to weasel out of it, probably in the hopes that everybody will have forgotten about this (or changed the policy) come 2035.
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Pete from Boston

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Vermont
« Reply #488 on: June 16, 2020, 06:47:49 PM »

Based on a post to several Private FB road groups, Vermont has started putting up its 'Milepoint Exit #' signs along I-89. A photo in the post shows Exit 2 with the Milepoint Exit 13 tab at the bottom. Based on a comment the tabs have been added at least as far north as Exit 17 (MP 97). According to the post Vermont doesn't plan to change the existing sequential exit numbers until the next round of sign replacement around 2030. Road trip anyone?

Update. I've gotten permission to post the photo from Steve Goodwin on my New England Exit Renumbering website:


Good lord, that’s some confusing nonsense for motorists. They even invented the word “milepoint,” because a good thing to do is to make motorists think about extra things and their purpose while driving.

EDIT: As it turns out, they did not, in fact, invent the word.

https://www.definitions.net/definition/MILEPOINT

           “MilePoint is a new travel social
            network for frequent flyers/business
            travelers.”
« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 06:53:00 PM by Pete from Boston »
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Alex

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #489 on: June 16, 2020, 06:51:18 PM »

Yikes.  This just keeps getting worse.  15 years from now?  Might as well be never.  And no, VT, the feds did not mandate little plaques, they mandated conversion... the plaques are just your way of trying to weasel out of it, probably in the hopes that everybody will have forgotten about this (or changed the policy) come 2035.

This is from a state that probably will never build another mile of new road. Shouldn't be surprised that they are lackluster on implementing this.

vdeane

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #490 on: June 16, 2020, 09:30:25 PM »

Yikes.  This just keeps getting worse.  15 years from now?  Might as well be never.  And no, VT, the feds did not mandate little plaques, they mandated conversion... the plaques are just your way of trying to weasel out of it, probably in the hopes that everybody will have forgotten about this (or changed the policy) come 2035.

This is from a state that probably will never build another mile of new road. Shouldn't be surprised that they are lackluster on implementing this.
They still have long distances between exits, rending sequential numbers of little utility, and a numbering anomaly resulting from the I-89/I-91 junction not being numbered on I-89.
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amroad17

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #491 on: June 17, 2020, 02:04:02 AM »

$250,000 (of federal money) for an "extra step" when the DOT could have just changed the EXIT tabs or put on an overlay for, I'm guessing, a lot less money!  It is just Vermont holding on to an outdated tradition of sequential exit numbers--especially in a state that is perfect for a changeover from sequential to mile(point)-based exits.
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abqtraveler

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #492 on: June 17, 2020, 10:42:16 AM »

$250,000 (of federal money) for an "extra step" when the DOT could have just changed the EXIT tabs or put on an overlay for, I'm guessing, a lot less money!  It is just Vermont holding on to an outdated tradition of sequential exit numbers--especially in a state that is perfect for a changeover from sequential to mile(point)-based exits.

People up in New England are very resistant to change, hence why Vermont is gong with Milepoint exit placards until the next round of sign replacements takes place 10-20 years down the road. Apparently that was enough to satisfy the FHWA's requirement for mile-based exit numbers, for now.
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froggie

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #493 on: June 17, 2020, 11:01:06 AM »

^ Correct.  Local media has reported that FHWA signed off on this.
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vdeane

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #494 on: June 17, 2020, 01:35:42 PM »

Yeah, if I were FHWA, I wouldn't have, especially with the long time scale.  Who knows if Vermont will even still be doing full-scale sign rehabs anymore in 15 years?  They could become like New York, where replace in kind on a per-sign basis is often done instead.  With modern GIS-based inventories and asset management software, I expect such to become increasingly common across the country - after all, the reason for a corridor-wide rehab in the first place is because you don't know the condition of every individual sign.  As transportation dollars become increasingly scarce, I don't see why a state would spend the money to do it the old way.  Yes, the old way would make roadgeeks more happy... but states don't budget for roadgeeks.  They budget to serve the needs of the traveling public for the lowest cost possible, so if you can get a section of road back to good condition by replacing 5 signs instead of 20, you're going to replace 5.

(personal opinion)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 01:40:27 PM by vdeane »
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roadman65

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #495 on: June 17, 2020, 03:41:55 PM »

Based on a post to several Private FB road groups, Vermont has started putting up its 'Milepoint Exit #' signs along I-89. A photo in the post shows Exit 2 with the Milepoint Exit 13 tab at the bottom. Based on a comment the tabs have been added at least as far north as Exit 17 (MP 97). According to the post Vermont doesn't plan to change the existing sequential exit numbers until the next round of sign replacement around 2030. Road trip anyone?

Wonder why they skipped I-91?  I can see that they consider interstate to interstate junctions as meaningless like PennDOT did in their days of sequential numbers, but here on I-91  at the same interchange you get an exit number.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 07:21:07 PM by Alps »
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vdeane

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #496 on: June 17, 2020, 09:27:05 PM »

Although for the longest time that number was only barely signed... but I-189 has a number too.
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froggie

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Re: Vermont
« Reply #497 on: June 17, 2020, 10:33:32 PM »

Worth noting that, originally, I-91 didn't have an exit number at I-89 either.  This appears to have been changed ca. 1970 when the Exit 10 number (previously the US 5/WRJ exit) was moved to the I-89 interchange and everything north of there was adjusted (it helps that, except for some mileage in Derby, nothing was finished north of Norwich at the time).

Also, curiously, the 1971 state map shows I-89 as having Exit 1 at I-91 and Exit 1A at US 4.  I suspect it was never signed as such because from the 1972 edition on, Exit 1 went back to US 4.
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