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[Trademark]

Milwaukee is a fascinating place for highway history.  Stub ramps and tear-downs, but also sections of freeway rebuilt very well in this century.  Rail transit that was torn out in favor of freeways mid-20th century, an old freeway proposal that eventually came to life as a 'parkway', an odd penchant for interchanges that look like this.

And if you like beer, they got you covered.  Unlike out west, it's not mostly IPAs at all the craft breweries.

Scroll a mile west of there and there's an abandoned interchange with what was originally intended to be the Stadium Freeway. It's now a park n' ride, but completely inaccessible from the freeway. A few of the ramps are still there, but slowly being reclaimed by nature.

BTW, the freeway is a very rare occurrence of a triple interstate multiplex I-41, I-43 and I-894 (also US 41). And two of the routes are going in opposite directions.

The Park and Ride is about to be redeveloped.

https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2021/09/03/cobalt-buys-park-and-ride-for-loomis-crossing.html

[GeekJedi]

Milwaukee is a fascinating place for highway history.  Stub ramps and tear-downs, but also sections of freeway rebuilt very well in this century.  Rail transit that was torn out in favor of freeways mid-20th century, an old freeway proposal that eventually came to life as a 'parkway', an odd penchant for interchanges that look like this.

And if you like beer, they got you covered.  Unlike out west, it's not mostly IPAs at all the craft breweries.

Scroll a mile west of there and there's an abandoned interchange with what was originally intended to be the Stadium Freeway. It's now a park n' ride, but completely inaccessible from the freeway. A few of the ramps are still there, but slowly being reclaimed by nature.

BTW, the freeway is a very rare occurrence of a triple interstate multiplex I-41, I-43 and I-894 (also US 41). And two of the routes are going in opposite directions.

The Park and Ride is about to be redeveloped.

https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2021/09/03/cobalt-buys-park-and-ride-for-loomis-crossing.html

The last remnant of the Stadium Freeway disappears.

[mgk920]

Milwaukee is a fascinating place for highway history.  Stub ramps and tear-downs, but also sections of freeway rebuilt very well in this century.  Rail transit that was torn out in favor of freeways mid-20th century, an old freeway proposal that eventually came to life as a 'parkway', an odd penchant for interchanges that look like this.

And if you like beer, they got you covered.  Unlike out west, it's not mostly IPAs at all the craft breweries.

Scroll a mile west of there and there's an abandoned interchange with what was originally intended to be the Stadium Freeway. It's now a park n' ride, but completely inaccessible from the freeway. A few of the ramps are still there, but slowly being reclaimed by nature.

BTW, the freeway is a very rare occurrence of a triple interstate multiplex I-41, I-43 and I-894 (also US 41). And two of the routes are going in opposite directions.

The Park and Ride is about to be redeveloped.

https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2021/09/03/cobalt-buys-park-and-ride-for-loomis-crossing.html

The last remnant of the Stadium Freeway disappears.

The part between Lisbon Ave and National Ave is still there.

Mike

[JoePCool14]

Milwaukee is a fascinating place for highway history.  Stub ramps and tear-downs, but also sections of freeway rebuilt very well in this century.  Rail transit that was torn out in favor of freeways mid-20th century, an old freeway proposal that eventually came to life as a 'parkway', an odd penchant for interchanges that look like this.

And if you like beer, they got you covered.  Unlike out west, it's not mostly IPAs at all the craft breweries.

Scroll a mile west of there and there's an abandoned interchange with what was originally intended to be the Stadium Freeway. It's now a park n' ride, but completely inaccessible from the freeway. A few of the ramps are still there, but slowly being reclaimed by nature.

BTW, the freeway is a very rare occurrence of a triple interstate multiplex I-41, I-43 and I-894 (also US 41). And two of the routes are going in opposite directions.

The Park and Ride is about to be redeveloped.

https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2021/09/03/cobalt-buys-park-and-ride-for-loomis-crossing.html

The last remnant of the Stadium Freeway disappears.

The part between Lisbon Ave and National Ave is still there.

Mike

For now. But that's getting the axe soon.

[triplemultiplex]

I guess we should say the last vestige of the Stadium South goes away with that project.  At least the last vestige as originally constructed.  I don't have to remind this group how they shifted the freeway east to build Miller Park.

Because of topography, I anticipate the portion of the Stadium North Freeway under Wisconsin/Bluemound and over the Menomonee River to remain a little freeway chunk even after it inevitably gets filled in/demolished in Washington Heights.  Otherwise you're looking at some extremely goofy slopes from under I-94 to the top of the hill at Bluemound and then down back into the valley of the Menomonee River.

And I enjoy both IPAs and dark beers.
And lagers and pilsners and ambers and dunkels so on and so on.

[FightingIrish]

I guess we should say the last vestige of the Stadium South goes away with that project.  At least the last vestige as originally constructed.  I don't have to remind this group how they shifted the freeway east to build Miller Park.

Because of topography, I anticipate the portion of the Stadium North Freeway under Wisconsin/Bluemound and over the Menomonee River to remain a little freeway chunk even after it inevitably gets filled in/demolished in Washington Heights.  Otherwise you're looking at some extremely goofy slopes from under I-94 to the top of the hill at Bluemound and then down back into the valley of the Menomonee River.

And I enjoy both IPAs and dark beers.
And lagers and pilsners and ambers and dunkels so on and so on.

The Stadium North is a strange beast. It was obviously designed to cross the Menomonee River Valley, while also serving the many streets in the area (which many other surface streets between 35th Street and WIS 100 do in a haphazard way).

Of course, in the beginning, there were far grander plans for the Stadium Freeway. Obviously, those plans did not pan out (likely for the better). So, now it is simply a short, segmented beast that travels across some pretty crazy terrain, yet serves a busy baseball stadium, the VA complex, I-94, the corporate HQs of Miller* and Harley-Davidson, and Milwaukee's north side.

And yes, with the shortened fragment that was actually built, it is definitely flawed. I'm sure nobody really looks forward to being dumped off onto Lisbon Ave., then Appleton Ave. on the north end. It is an absolute mess of narrow, pothole-ridden streets with lots of traffic lights through very depressed neighborhoods.

But I'm getting off topic. The terrain and elevation concerns, among other things, definitely get in the way of turning the Stadium North freeway into a grand boulevard. Same with the I-794 surface scheme through downtown. Physically, it just won't work. So, we're stuck with them.

[mgk920]

An interesting item here, it seems that a number of the (regular posters) in another development forvm that I follow have been all giddy over past few weeks in their discussions between themselves about the idea of closing and removing I-794 through the downtown Milwaukee area.  Any thoughts and/or insights on this?

Mike

[JoePCool14]

We discussed this a few months back, here's what I had said.

I would prefer 794 not to be dismantled. Milwaukee doesn't have great public transit to make-up for the difference and 94 is busy enough as it is. I'd rather have the traffic use highways than clog up surface streets. 794 is not just a short freeway stub, it's a connection to the lakeshore areas further south, even down to Racine County.

My opinion hasn't changed. Some urbanists pissing themselves about it ain't gonna change my opinion, that's for sure.

[The Ghostbuster]

Here is my take on tearing down Interstate 794: NO (expletive)ING WAY! What they should do is move all left-handed ramps (at both Exit 1E and Exit 1F) to the right-hand side; or possibly combine 1E and 1F into a single exit, at least for eastbound traffic. There is too much traffic on 794 to remove it; the former Park East Freeway was an underutilized spur, so it is understandable why it was demolished 20 years ago. The only other change I would suggest is to number the STH-794 Lake Parkway’s exit numbers as a continuation of Interstate 794’s numbers (S. Carferry Dr. would become Exit 3, like it is SB; Oklahoma Ave. could remain unnumbered since it is a jug-handle; E. Howard Ave. would become Exit 5; and E. Layton Ave. would become Exit 6). I hope the proposed Lake Parkway extension to STH-100/E. Ryan Rd. is eventually built (a short distance north of where it would intersect E. Puetz Rd., it would pass by where my paternal grandfather once lived).

[SEWIGuy]

I’m all for looking at alternatives but I think tearing it down will be the best option. People are exaggerating the traffic problems.

[JoePCool14]

Here is my take on tearing down Interstate 794: NO (expletive)ING WAY! What they should do is move all left-handed ramps (at both Exit 1E and Exit 1F) to the right-hand side; or possibly combine 1E and 1F into a single exit, at least for eastbound traffic. There is too much traffic on 794 to remove it; the former Park East Freeway was an underutilized spur, so it is understandable why it was demolished 20 years ago. The only other change I would suggest is to number the STH-794 Lake Parkway’s exit numbers as a continuation of Interstate 794’s numbers (S. Carferry Dr. would become Exit 3, like it is SB; Oklahoma Ave. could remain unnumbered since it is a jug-handle; E. Howard Ave. would become Exit 5; and E. Layton Ave. would become Exit 6). I hope the proposed Lake Parkway extension to STH-100/E. Ryan Rd. is eventually built (a short distance north of where it would intersect E. Puetz Rd., it would pass by where my paternal grandfather once lived).

I'm not sure I'd called the Oklahoma Ave "exit" a jughandle. It's really just a connector road between the two.

[triplemultiplex]

I've stated before I think traffic will be just fine if Milwaukee decides to tear down that stretch of 794. The overwhelming majority of traffic on that facility has an origin/destination somewhere downtown or on the lakefront, so the freeway saves them what, 3 minutes?  I don't think the expense of replacing the aging portion of the viaduct is worth the expense given that reality.
I'd lament the loss of one of my favorite interstate numbers, but the coolness of the number 794 isn't enough for me to stand in the way.

I-794 west of the Lake Interchange is not a linchpin to the freeway system in Milwaukee.  Having lived in the city during the Marquette Interchange reconstruction, I saw first hand how people adapted to long term closures.  There was a long time there where 794 was inaccessible to/from I-43 and it was manageable.

That being said, according to Futurama, I-794 still exists a thousand years from now:

[SEWIGuy]

I've stated before I think traffic will be just fine if Milwaukee decides to tear down that stretch of 794. The overwhelming majority of traffic on that facility has an origin/destination somewhere downtown or on the lakefront, so the freeway saves them what, 3 minutes?  I don't think the expense of replacing the aging portion of the viaduct is worth the expense given that reality.
I'd lament the loss of one of my favorite interstate numbers, but the coolness of the number 794 isn't enough for me to stand in the way.

I-794 west of the Lake Interchange is not a linchpin to the freeway system in Milwaukee.  Having lived in the city during the Marquette Interchange reconstruction, I saw first hand how people adapted to long term closures.  There was a long time there where 794 was inaccessible to/from I-43 and it was manageable.

Thank you. You stated this better than I did.

[JoePCool14]

In your opinion, what should replace 794 between the 94 interchange and the Hoan Bridge?

[SEWIGuy]

I expressed this earlier in the topic. I envision some sort of boulevard. But I think a full study should be done to see if there are better options.

[dvferyance]

In your opinion, what should replace 794 between the 94 interchange and the Hoan Bridge?

Why would anything replace it? They just rebuilt it a little less than a decade ago why are we even talking about this?

[JoePCool14]

In your opinion, what should replace 794 between the 94 interchange and the Hoan Bridge?

Why would anything replace it? They just rebuilt it a little less than a decade ago why are we even talking about this?

I'm not the one saying it should be torn down. I was asking what the people who are okay with tearing it would prefer to see.

[SEWIGuy]

In your opinion, what should replace 794 between the 94 interchange and the Hoan Bridge?

Why would anything replace it? They just rebuilt it a little less than a decade ago why are we even talking about this?

The Marquette Interchange was replaced. Not I-794. And the reason we are talking about this is because there is a group in Milwaukee discussing it because the future of the Lake Interchange is being studied by WIDOT right now.

[triplemultiplex]

The Marquette rebuild replaced all of 794 to river.  The Lake Interchange was reconstructed as-is in 2014/15.  Some of the bridges were redecked, the rest were resurfaced. Some of the ramps were replaced entirely.  That was when they reconfigured a couple of the ramps to the current configuration.
Basically anything with blue steel girders was completely replaced.  Anything with a box girder got resurfaced.

So it's a mix of totally new structures and fixed-up old structures.

All this suggests the tear-down idea is not a short term concept; likely no action this decade, if I were to guess.

In terms of what I'd like to see, the 'boulevard' concept seems like the default answer.  Probably on Clybourn Ave.  Question becomes where does the transition occur then?  The river?  West of the river, like 3rd St?  The further west it is, the more expensive it gets because it begins to affect the elevation of the system interchange ramps.

Like I said though, this is at least a decade out.  The wheels on a project like this are going to move slow.

[The Ghostbuster]

When the portion of Interstate 794 between the Marquette Interchange and the Lake Interchange was being planned, there was a debate on whether it should be an elevated freeway or a surface boulevard. The then-mayor wanted a surface boulevard and the common council wanted a freeway. The mayor vetoed the elevated freeway plan, which the common council overrode, and the freeway was built (ironically, that very same former mayor later said that building the elevated freeway was the right move): http://wisconsinhighways.org/milwaukee/eastwest.html. With that being said, I personally believe it is unrealistic to just remove 794 and move all traffic to the surface streets. I feel it is a needed connection. Is the support for getting rid of 794 widespread, or is it (as I suspect) confined to a small but vocal group of activists and planners?

[GeekJedi]

Lifelong resident here - my opinion is that 794 should stay, however remove the ramps between the Marquette and Lake interchanges. 794 is a through route to the south suburbs along the lake (Bayview, Cudahy, etc.) which means you're just pushing traffic to other surface streets.

[hobsini2]

Lifelong resident here - my opinion is that 794 should stay, however remove the ramps between the Marquette and Lake interchanges. 794 is a through route to the south suburbs along the lake (Bayview, Cudahy, etc.) which means you're just pushing traffic to other surface streets.

I would keep one direct ramp on and off in both directions to Downtown. EB off/WB on at Plankinton Ave. WB off/EB on at Milwaukee with the configuration tied into the Lake Interchange.

[SEWIGuy]

Lifelong resident here - my opinion is that 794 should stay, however remove the ramps between the Marquette and Lake interchanges. 794 is a through route to the south suburbs along the lake (Bayview, Cudahy, etc.) which means you're just pushing traffic to other surface streets.

According to your location, don't you live around Mukwonago?

[triplemultiplex]

Lifelong resident here - my opinion is that 794 should stay, however remove the ramps between the Marquette and Lake interchanges. 794 is a through route to the south suburbs along the lake (Bayview, Cudahy, etc.) which means you're just pushing traffic to other surface streets.

No that's not the purpose of I-794.  It's designed to collect and deliver traffic to and from downtown, not to serve the tiny percent of vehicles that are driving thru the center city en route to a couple of south shore neighborhoods and suburbs.  Suburbs and neighborhoods, which I must say, one can easily drive to from 43/94 via surface roads without having to deal with downtown commuters.

[GeekJedi]

Lifelong resident here - my opinion is that 794 should stay, however remove the ramps between the Marquette and Lake interchanges. 794 is a through route to the south suburbs along the lake (Bayview, Cudahy, etc.) which means you're just pushing traffic to other surface streets.

I do now. I was born at West Allis Memorial hospital. Grew up in Bay View and work in Milwaukee.

According to your location, don't you live around Mukwonago?