Kentucky

[hbelkins]

Last year, the Kentucky General Assembly designated the four-lane KY 80 segment between Hazard and Allen (KY 15 and US 23/460) as an extension of the Hal Rogers Parkway.

Sometime within the last six weeks, the signage has been changed on the intersecting routes to reflect the new name.

All surface signage (at least as far east as KY 680) remains for KY 80.

Examples:

[Rothman]

Still soet of weird in my head due to it not being limited access...despite other KY parkways not being totally limited access...

[hbelkins]

Still soet of weird in my head due to it not being limited access...despite other KY parkways not being totally limited access...

All of Kentucky's parkways are limited access except the Hal Rogers.

The only ones that had sections that weren't limited access besides the Hal Rogers were the Cumberland, and that section has been bypassed by the northern extension; and the Mountain, and the one at-grade intersection at KY 134 has been bypassed by the new four-lane section with a grade-separated interchange.

The Purchase (now I-69), Pennyrile (now I-69 and I-169), the Audubon, the William H. Natcher (now I-165), the BG, and the WK were all full freeways. The Hal Rogers always had a section with at-grades near London, near Hazard, and the two at-grade intersections where the toll booths were located. Once the tolls were removed, a number of at-grades were added in Laurel, Clay, and Leslie counties to provide local access.

[Rothman]

Is GSV correct for the Mountain Parkway through Salyersville?  If so, lots of sillyness still on the east side.

[wriddle082]

I passed through this area on US 23 headed north today and got a photo of one of the new BGS's showing the Hal shield and no KY 80 shield.  They really need to put up some sort of supplementary signage that says something to the effect of "KY 80 West traffic follow Hal Rogers Parkway" since it appears that 80 just disappears beyond Allen and reappears at Hazard.

I can't figure out how to get the photo to show up in my post since apparently I've forgotten how to use Imgur or their links have changed or the forum is no longer allowing Imgur links.

[Rothman]

I passed through this area on US 23 headed north today and got a photo of one of the new BGS's showing the Hal shield and no KY 80 shield.  They really need to put up some sort of supplementary signage that says something to the effect of "KY 80 West traffic follow Hal Rogers Parkway" since it appears that 80 just disappears beyond Allen and reappears at Hazard.

I can't figure out how to get the photo to show up in my post since apparently I've forgotten how to use Imgur or their links have changed or the forum is no longer allowing Imgur links.

I was futzing around with GSV on the new-ish section of KY 680 east of Minnie.  KY's decision to sometimes ignore concurrencies is rather annoying.  I think it actually makes navigation more difficult for out-of-towners who may not know which way they need to go if their route hits another.  Then again, having spent a LOT of time in eastern KY, the mentality that out-of-towners aren't exactly plentiful (albeit somewhat welcome), so why bother, is pretty dominant.

[hbelkins]

I passed through this area on US 23 headed north today and got a photo of one of the new BGS's showing the Hal shield and no KY 80 shield.  They really need to put up some sort of supplementary signage that says something to the effect of "KY 80 West traffic follow Hal Rogers Parkway" since it appears that 80 just disappears beyond Allen and reappears at Hazard.

I can't figure out how to get the photo to show up in my post since apparently I've forgotten how to use Imgur or their links have changed or the forum is no longer allowing Imgur links.

Surface signage remains for KY 80 on the Hazard end.

I was futzing around with GSV on the new-ish section of KY 680 east of Minnie.  KY's decision to sometimes ignore concurrencies is rather annoying.  I think it actually makes navigation more difficult for out-of-towners who may not know which way they need to go if their route hits another.  Then again, having spent a LOT of time in eastern KY, the mentality that out-of-towners aren't exactly plentiful (albeit somewhat welcome), so why bother, is pretty dominant.

The Somerset district (District 8) is most guilty of this.

[seicer]

Johnson County - KY 172 Corridor Study

The objective of the study was to develop concepts to improve safety and address mobility and access concerns along KY 172 in Johnson County. The goal was to develop potential spot and corridor improvement concepts to match recent improvements to KY 172 in Morgan County. The study begins at the Morgan/Johnson County Line (MP 0.00) and ends at the KY 40 intersection (MP 12.37).

-

Winchester and Greenup Ave. Roadway Improvements in Ashland

KYTC District Nine is soliciting input on a series of improvements proposed for Winchester and Greenup Avenue. The projects are designed to alleviate two high-crash-prone roadways, 40%-50% of which result in injuries.

Improvements include:

• Shortening the pedestrian crossings along Greenup Avenue by bumping out the curbs.
• Adding a center turn lane or a non-mountable median along Greenup Avenue.
• Reducing Winchester Avenue east of downtown to Greenup Avenue to two lanes because of low traffic counts. Bike lanes are added in the concept.
• Parking generally remains the same, although some spaces near intersections may be affected.
• Additionally, a raised island in the center of the roadway allows for shorter crossing distances and a protected area for pedestrians and is under consideration for 18th, 22nd, 23rd, and 25th Streets on Greenup Ave.

[Plutonic Panda]

I-24 improvements being looked at:

https://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/kentucky-transportation-cabinet-studies-potential-improvements-to-interstate-24/article_787dd9fd-cdb8-4b15-93ab-9b0b879b43da.html

[Stephane Dumas]

All of Kentucky's parkways are limited access except the Hal Rogers.

We might add to the list Industrial parkway alias KY-67 although this road isn't like the other KY parkways who was former toll roads but it still have some at-grades intersections like this one. https://maps.app.goo.gl/TEA2UmpNsfMKL3YS8

[wriddle082]

All of Kentucky's parkways are limited access except the Hal Rogers.

We might add to the list Industrial parkway alias KY-67 although this road isn't like the other KY parkways who was former toll roads but it still have some at-grades intersections like this one. https://maps.app.goo.gl/TEA2UmpNsfMKL3YS8

I wouldn't necessarily count Industrial Parkway as a Kentucky Parkway in the traditional sense.  It's merely an improved two-lane roadway (with ROW reserved for two additional lanes if the need arises) with zero driveways and control of its access points, and its name just happens to end with the word "parkway".

And back when the Hal Rogers/Daniel Boone Parkway still had tolls, wouldn't the Hyden Spur and KY 66 toll plaza intersections have been considered a form of limited access?  All traffic was slowed down in order to pay a toll, and despite the crossing of certain movements, you could say that the mere presence of the toll booths limited the access of the roadway.  Also taking into account the two diamond interchanges at Manchester and the west side of Hazard, there were no other access points between KY 192 at London and Tori Dr in Hazard.  All other roads in between were bridged over or under.

(I am not counting the HRP extensions over KY 80 in the London area or from Hazard to Prestonsburg, which I personally still consider KY 80.)

[hbelkins]

There were a number of at-grade intersections, most of them signalized, on the original Daniel Boone Parkway between US 25 and  KY 192 in the London vicinity. From KY 192 to a mining access road just east of the North Fork of the Kentucky River crossing near Hazard, there were two grade-separated interchanges (KY 80 and KY 451) and two toll booths with at-grade intersections (KY 66 and KY 118/Hyden Spur).

Since the tolls were removed and the name was changed, there have been a number of at-grade connections built in Laurel, Clay, and Leslie counties.

[seicer]

More of an FYI, there is a scoping study for Interstate 24 improvements. This will involve major mainline widening, the replacement of the bridges over the Tennessee and Cumberland rivers, interchange improvements, and truck parking at a former rest area.

[I-55]

More of an FYI, there is a scoping study for Interstate 24 improvements. This will involve major mainline widening, the replacement of the bridges over the Tennessee and Cumberland rivers, interchange improvements, and truck parking at a former rest area.

The only places where volumes would justify widening are west of Exit 16 / US 68 (34k-48k AADT) and east of Exit 81 / I-169 (42k-49k AADT). Most of I-24 between Exit 16 and Exit 42 (I-69 N) is around 30k AADT and between Exit 42 and Exit 81 typically sees 23k-27k AADT, which don't meet typical widening thresholds.

For Comparison:

• The lowest AADT on I-75 in the state is 31k from the TN line at Jellico to Williamsburg. The next section north of Williamsburg is 38k AADT, and the portion being widened in Corbin is 42k AADT.
  
• The lowest volume on I-65 (6 lanes or more statewide) anywhere in the state is 45k near Munfordville.
• Most of I-64 between Lexington and Louisville is 50k or more (despite still being 4-lane).
• Most of I-71 between Louisville and I-75 is 35k-45k AADT (4-lane).

[noelbotevera]

On the way down to Huntsville, I stopped for the night in Pikeville. Hence, posting here. Will do a better writeup at...some point. Life and all that.

Apparently, all roads in Kentucky lead to Pikeville. US 23? Pikeville. US 119? Pikeville. US 460? Pikeville. KY 80? Oh hey!

It's an unremarkable town of 7000 people and its claim to fame is a medical school (I think?) that's religiously affiliated (what?). At some point in the 1970s and 1980s, it was bypassed by US 23/US 119/US 460/KY 80, and involved chopping away a mountain and rerouting a river (the Big Sandy River) for a grand total of bypassing 0.75 miles.

I feel like a tunnel would've been perfectly fine, no? Based on the signs at the Pikeville Cut Through overlook, it also involved rerouting railroad tracks. That's not easy to do especially when trains can use tunnels perfectly fine. At the end of the day, Pikeville got some extra land because of the river reroute, all the traffic is off of their main street, and a perfectly good mountain was utterly decimated.

I may not know the ins and outs of Appalachia, and understand that lots of earth needs to get moved (see Corridor H) to create fast roads. But you're telling me boring three tunnels is harder than whatever the hell it took to build the Pikeville Cut Through? I-77 traverses fairly similar terrain in Virginia and all it took was two sets of tunnels to do the job.

[seicer]

If Kentucky built a tunnel for every small mountain or hill, the state would be saddled with decades of recurring expenses far higher than those for maintaining rock cuts where geology is favorable. Rocks excavated can then be used as fill for valleys or as a road base. That region of the state, in the Piedmont, features narrow valleys and ridges that make tunneling expensive to build and maintain. The tunnels you referred to run through the Ridge & Valley region, which features broad valleys and linear mountain ranges that present more formidable barriers to conventional cuts.

In the Allegheny Mountain Tunnel project along the Pennsylvania Turnpike, a 250' deep, 1000' wide cut to accommodate six through lanes is proposed to bypass two two-lane tubes. The cost is projected to be $300 million. A tunnel option would cost at least $600 million and incur $1 million in annual costs. (source)

Also, you are discounting the traffic in Pike County, which still has over 55,000 residents. Pikeville is a growing city and the center of commerce and services for the southeast region of the state. It has a Level II Trauma Center, the only one in that part of the state, and the University of Pikeville, with 2,500 students. Historically, the highways converged in the area because of its economic importance as the center of the Eastern Kentucky coal fields. While coal is no longer king, it still plays an outsized role in the economy.

[Dirt Roads]

Also, one shouldn't discount the complications of tunnelling through the various seams of soft sandstone, sand, shale and coal.  When all is said-and-done, you might need a secondary tunnel just to handle the groundwater drainage issues.

[GCrites]

If Kentucky built a tunnel for every small mountain or hill, the state would be saddled with decades of recurring expenses far higher than those for maintaining rock cuts where geology is favorable. Rocks excavated can then be used as fill for valleys or as a road base. That region of the state, in the Piedmont, features narrow valleys and ridges that make tunneling expensive to build and maintain. The tunnels you referred to run through the Ridge & Valley region, which features broad valleys and linear mountain ranges that present more formidable barriers to conventional cuts.

In the Allegheny Mountain Tunnel project along the Pennsylvania Turnpike, a 250' deep, 1000' wide cut to accommodate six through lanes is proposed to bypass two two-lane tubes. The cost is projected to be $300 million. A tunnel option would cost at least $600 million and incur $1 million in annual costs. (source)

Also, you are discounting the traffic in Pike County, which still has over 55,000 residents. Pikeville is a growing city and the center of commerce and services for the southeast region of the state. It has a Level II Trauma Center, the only one in that part of the state, and the University of Pikeville, with 2,500 students. Historically, the highways converged in the area because of its economic importance as the center of the Eastern Kentucky coal fields. While coal is no longer king, it still plays an outsized role in the economy.

Pikeville is the unofficial capital of Appalachia. Other cities are bigger but Pikeville's central location makes it king.

[wriddle082]

If Kentucky built a tunnel for every small mountain or hill, the state would be saddled with decades of recurring expenses far higher than those for maintaining rock cuts where geology is favorable. Rocks excavated can then be used as fill for valleys or as a road base. That region of the state, in the Piedmont, features narrow valleys and ridges that make tunneling expensive to build and maintain. The tunnels you referred to run through the Ridge & Valley region, which features broad valleys and linear mountain ranges that present more formidable barriers to conventional cuts.

In the Allegheny Mountain Tunnel project along the Pennsylvania Turnpike, a 250' deep, 1000' wide cut to accommodate six through lanes is proposed to bypass two two-lane tubes. The cost is projected to be $300 million. A tunnel option would cost at least $600 million and incur $1 million in annual costs. (source)

Also, you are discounting the traffic in Pike County, which still has over 55,000 residents. Pikeville is a growing city and the center of commerce and services for the southeast region of the state. It has a Level II Trauma Center, the only one in that part of the state, and the University of Pikeville, with 2,500 students. Historically, the highways converged in the area because of its economic importance as the center of the Eastern Kentucky coal fields. While coal is no longer king, it still plays an outsized role in the economy.

Pikeville is the unofficial capital of Appalachia. Other cities are bigger but Pikeville's central location makes it king.

Nobody has mentioned the significant shopping district just north of Pikeville in the newly formed city of Coal Run.  Many big box stores, discount stores, supermarkets, chain restaurants, hotels, car dealerships, and other businesses are located here if nowhere else in Eastern KY, not far from the northern US 119 split from the "Four Lane" (the local nickname for US 23 in this region, and though there are other four lane roads around, this one was first).

And as others have stated, Pikeville is now growing, albeit slowly.  At least it's not still declining in population like the Huntington/Ashland/Ironton Tri-State area seems to be (which is where I partially grew up), mainly due to poor economic revitalization decisions by clueless local leaders.  And they have an interstate!

Anyway, I have been finding myself traveling through this area quite a bit recently for work trips to Ohio because I have grown tired of I-77 and its traffic issues, and I-75 isn't always convenient, while US 23 is much less stressful though it does take longer.  I am continually impressed with the growth that seems to have occurred along much of the US 23 corridor mostly in Pike County but also in Floyd, Johnson, and Lawrence as well.  Boyd and Greenup Counties have some work to do.

[GCrites]

If Kentucky built a tunnel for every small mountain or hill, the state would be saddled with decades of recurring expenses far higher than those for maintaining rock cuts where geology is favorable. Rocks excavated can then be used as fill for valleys or as a road base. That region of the state, in the Piedmont, features narrow valleys and ridges that make tunneling expensive to build and maintain. The tunnels you referred to run through the Ridge & Valley region, which features broad valleys and linear mountain ranges that present more formidable barriers to conventional cuts.

In the Allegheny Mountain Tunnel project along the Pennsylvania Turnpike, a 250' deep, 1000' wide cut to accommodate six through lanes is proposed to bypass two two-lane tubes. The cost is projected to be $300 million. A tunnel option would cost at least $600 million and incur $1 million in annual costs. (source)

Also, you are discounting the traffic in Pike County, which still has over 55,000 residents. Pikeville is a growing city and the center of commerce and services for the southeast region of the state. It has a Level II Trauma Center, the only one in that part of the state, and the University of Pikeville, with 2,500 students. Historically, the highways converged in the area because of its economic importance as the center of the Eastern Kentucky coal fields. While coal is no longer king, it still plays an outsized role in the economy.

Pikeville is the unofficial capital of Appalachia. Other cities are bigger but Pikeville's central location makes it king.

Nobody has mentioned the significant shopping district just north of Pikeville in the newly formed city of Coal Run.  Many big box stores, discount stores, supermarkets, chain restaurants, hotels, car dealerships, and other businesses are located here if nowhere else in Eastern KY, not far from the northern US 119 split from the "Four Lane" (the local nickname for US 23 in this region, and though there are other four lane roads around, this one was first).

A couple years back my buddy was driving while I was looking at the mapping on my phone. We pull into one of those businesses and he's like, "OK looks like we're in Pikeville now." and I'm like, "No we aren't yet!"

[Rothman]

If Kentucky built a tunnel for every small mountain or hill, the state would be saddled with decades of recurring expenses far higher than those for maintaining rock cuts where geology is favorable. Rocks excavated can then be used as fill for valleys or as a road base. That region of the state, in the Piedmont, features narrow valleys and ridges that make tunneling expensive to build and maintain. The tunnels you referred to run through the Ridge & Valley region, which features broad valleys and linear mountain ranges that present more formidable barriers to conventional cuts.

In the Allegheny Mountain Tunnel project along the Pennsylvania Turnpike, a 250' deep, 1000' wide cut to accommodate six through lanes is proposed to bypass two two-lane tubes. The cost is projected to be $300 million. A tunnel option would cost at least $600 million and incur $1 million in annual costs. (source)

Also, you are discounting the traffic in Pike County, which still has over 55,000 residents. Pikeville is a growing city and the center of commerce and services for the southeast region of the state. It has a Level II Trauma Center, the only one in that part of the state, and the University of Pikeville, with 2,500 students. Historically, the highways converged in the area because of its economic importance as the center of the Eastern Kentucky coal fields. While coal is no longer king, it still plays an outsized role in the economy.

Pikeville is the unofficial capital of Appalachia. Other cities are bigger but Pikeville's central location makes it king.

Nobody has mentioned the significant shopping district just north of Pikeville in the newly formed city of Coal Run.  Many big box stores, discount stores, supermarkets, chain restaurants, hotels, car dealerships, and other businesses are located here if nowhere else in Eastern KY

Prestonsburg!

And as others have stated, Pikeville is now growing, albeit slowly. 

Eh, sorta.  Its population growth has become rather uneven.

That said, my uncle was a draftsman for the big relocation project for the highway, rail line and river and my cousin used to participate in Pikeville's comic con.

Have to say noel's drive-by opinion is pretty tone deaf and inaccurate.

[hbelkins]

One reason the river was rerouted along with the highway and the railroad was flooding. Pikeville sits in a bend of the Levisa Fork of the Big Sandy River and was prone to flooding that would inundate downtown. The 1977 floods got more headlines in the Cumberland River valley (Pineville, especially) but Pikeville was hit pretty hard.

[Rothman]

One reason the river was rerouted along with the highway and the railroad was flooding. Pikeville sits in a bend of the Levisa Fork of the Big Sandy River and was prone to flooding that would inundate downtown. The 1977 floods got more headlines in the Cumberland River valley (Pineville, especially) but Pikeville was hit pretty hard.

Sure, but the general area is still suffering because of more recent flooding.  Last time I was down there last August, I attended church with my aunt and everyone was talking about the sheer quantity of FEMA buyouts.  Seemed like everyone was getting out of Dodge.  Really makes me wonder what's going to happen to the local population over the next couple of years away from Pikeville.

I mean, it seemed like FEMA just went down KY 122 and was buying out every house along Beaver and Jack's Creek (an exaggeration...).  It seems like the acceptance that the area floods every so often has finally dissipated.  Even heard the current owners of my grandparents' old house got an offer, despite being built on a mound so it didn't flood like other houses in the neighborhood.

[freebrickproductions]

Apologies if it's already been mentioned in the thread, but I noticed recently when I went through the area at the start of this month that Exit 11 on I-169 in Hopkinsville is in the process of being converted from its traditional cloverleaf-style tollbooth interchange to what I assume is something of a more standard diamond configuration. However, when trying to look it up, I can't find any information online about the project, does anyone know what KYTC plans on doing with the interchange?

[noelbotevera]

Part of the reason I'm being overly harsh towards the Pikeville Cut Through is that I'm comparing it to the Appalachian Corridor projects in West Virginia -- didn't explicitly state that.

To me, the Cut Through doesn't really seem like much of a bypass given that, well, downtown Pikeville is right off the exit. You can see the town from both exits. However, I won't argue that the Cut Through saves time by reducing the amount of traffic lights on the main road. I'll take ~3 traffic lights over however many are on the business routes through Pikeville. In terms of distance saved, it's maybe about half a mile?

North of town is the strip mall mentioned earlier, with the US 23/US 119 junction a bit of a hassle to navigate mostly due to long lights. I imagine this is also where a lot of locals shop and eat, so the bypass ended up becoming a main street of sorts.

Assuming that this suburbia didn't exist back in the 1980s, I could believe that the Cut Through was the finishing touch on building a fast, modern road through southeastern Kentucky; especially considering a lot of the roads hadn't been touched since Daniel Boone trailblazing the area (according to what the NPS told me).

Contrast this to West Virginia's approach to building out their new roads during the '60s and '70s. Bypasses are total, traffic lights are generally avoided (okay, I'll bring up a few elephants -- Summersville on Corridor L, Logan and Charleston on Corridor G), more interchanges than intersections at major roads.

Does this mean West Virginia is better at road building than Kentucky? No, there's probably more favorable terrain at work in West Virginia, especially since building roads on the ridge line (less cuts, less blasting, etc. but the road has to already be high up) is a viable option there.

Again, I wasn't alive during the 1970s and make no claims to know Appalachia deeply as a region. From my perspective, chopping down an entire mountain and rerouting a bunch of infrastructure to save 3/4 of a mile seems excessive. Clearly, there's more to the story than I knew.