America's crumbling infrastructure

[The Premier]

I agree w/ your state level comment.  I'll gladly pay more fees or whatever if those fees directly fund transportation initiatives in my states, but as is the current problem... how do you keep the state general assembly's collective hand out of the cookie jar?  They literally steal every dollar for the special transportation fund as it comes in, launder it through the general fund, and then out to pet initiatives.

And that's the frustrating part, how to keep the legislature's hand out of the cookie jar.

This is an ethical problem that needs to be addressed.

[Chris]

We are crumbling due to a misallocation of resources by our bankrupt political class.    Take a look at Seattle for example.  Billions were thrown at a politically routed lightrail line that few people use.   Those billions should have been used to fix aging infrastructure or for a more logically routed lightrail line that would actually be used. 

In the Netherlands, € 5 billion is annually spent on public transport. € 3 billion is spent on the highway system. It's shocking if you consider the public transport accounts for only 14% compared to 86% car. The amount spent per passenger mile is 10 times higher for public transport than the highway system.

Believe me, the U.S. should absolutely not head into this direction, especially if you don´t want to raise the gas tax to $ 6 per gallon (you've read that right!). In the Netherlands we've spent € 7 billion on a high-speed railway 20,000 people use daily, plus € 150 million per year in operational losses covered by tax money. And then some rail advocates considered a € 4.5 billion upgrade to a highway network 500,000 people use on a daily base excessive...

The more politicians / policymakers want people to use public transport, the more bizarre the investment per passenger mile gets. In my example, the amount of tax money spent on that high-speed rail, per traveler is € 350,000 and the amount of tax money spent on the highway upgrade per traveler is € 9,000. This means almost 40 times more tax money is spent per traveler for the high-speed rail project. How can anyone justify such an investment?

I've read some articles from American editors about how the U.S. should invest more in infrastructure the way Europe does. But you should only do that if you're willing to pay for that (thus, $ 9 gas). 

[hobsini2]

The crumbling infastructure along with the near capacity of certain expressway segments is the exact reason why i was against going into Iraq.  Not that I support in any way regimes that murder and abuse their own people but the money we use in the 2 wars could have been spent in better ways such as education and infastructure.  Rebuild our country first before "trying" to build another.  I shall now step off my political soapbox.

[MichiganDriver]

One the easiest to do would be to lift the prohibition against tolling current Interstates I'd glady pay a toll if could count on roads beign smooth. Also with cars being much better on fuel, but still weighing 2500+ lbs gas taxes alone simply won't be enough to repair roads.

[Stephane Dumas]

In the Netherlands, € 5 billion is annually spent on public transport. € 3 billion is spent on the highway system. It's shocking if you consider the public transport accounts for only 14% compared to 86% car. The amount spent per passenger mile is 10 times higher for public transport than the highway system.

Believe me, the U.S. should absolutely not head into this direction, especially if you don´t want to raise the gas tax to $ 6 per gallon (you've read that right!). In the Netherlands we've spent € 7 billion on a high-speed railway 20,000 people use daily, plus € 150 million per year in operational losses covered by tax money. And then some rail advocates considered a € 4.5 billion upgrade to a highway network 500,000 people use on a daily base excessive...

The more politicians / policymakers want people to use public transport, the more bizarre the investment per passenger mile gets. In my example, the amount of tax money spent on that high-speed rail, per traveler is € 350,000 and the amount of tax money spent on the highway upgrade per traveler is € 9,000. This means almost 40 times more tax money is spent per traveler for the high-speed rail project. How can anyone justify such an investment?

I've read some articles from American editors about how the U.S. should invest more in infrastructure the way Europe does. But you should only do that if you're willing to pay for that (thus, $ 9 gas). 

Thanks for mentionning that Chris, looks like the TGV despite its promise and some exceptions, it's more a big white elephant then we taught.  I spotted this video from the folks of the webzine Reason magazine.

And on a off-topic note, I think the folks of the satiric magazine The Onion is right on the target for high-speed bus

[mightyace]

Instead of "nation-building" overseas and basically just throwing money into contractors and the military industrial complex and instead of letting giant corporations buy and bribe the law into their hands and exploiting every loophole to avoid taxes, we should fix the infrastructure of this country and benefit the lower/middle class for once. But anything proposed that would actually benefit the lower/middle class gets called "SOCIALISM" and gets altered to the point where it becomes another way for the elite to consolidate their wealth.

Could you please provide some examples here?

Not only that, they convinced a large part of the population to vote against their own interests and elect schmucks like Scott Walker into office.

So, you're convinced that no one would vote for Scott Walker of their own free will?

Personally, I would have voted for him.  He killed the high speed rail boondoggle in the state of Wisconsin and is trying to get rid on the unions of state employee bloating state government.  I say bloating because it is near impossible to fire a union bureaucrat.

i.e. He's trying to make sure tax money is well spent and keep taxes down letting me keep more of my money (assuming I was a WI resident).  How is that against my interests?

Or, is it simply that you think anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot or has been brainwashed?

[wytout]

So, you're convinced that no one would vote for Scott Walker of their own free will?

Personally, I would have voted for him.  He killed the high speed rail boondoggle in the state of Wisconsin and is trying to get rid on the unions of state employee bloating state government.  I say bloating because it is near impossible to fire a union bureaucrat.

i.e. He's trying to make sure tax money is well spent and keep taxes down letting me keep more of my money (assuming I was a WI resident).  How is that against my interests?

Or, is it simply that you think anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot or has been brainwashed?

Nice work being done there, a lot more gutsy than old Danny Boy here in CT.  Danny Boy is trying to soak up all that highspeed rail funding from states that were smart enough to say no thanks.  When he gets it.... our roads will finish crumbling and the projects for rails no one will ride will cost the state and federal governments billions in cost overruns and subsidies marching into perpetuity, only adding to the nations problems and not fixing a damn one of them.  And here in CT those overruns will burden an already broke state, there won't be any money at all to fix the disintegrating bridges and roadways, let alone finding intelligent ways to expand our capacity for automobile travel.   I'm all for paying reasonable taxes when the money is well spent.  High speed rail is just not part of the great America, it will never ever catch on to the point of being a real success.  I could live in downtown Hartford, CT... but you know what, I'm an American, and I'll take my car wherever I want to go on my own schedule.  Not he Magic train, or magic bus's schedule.  Like it or not it's true.

And you know what, deep down that's how most people in this country feel.  It's a very different mindset here than in the countries of say, Europe.  We cite Europe a lot. Well taxes are very high throughout European countries, and if the services work for them, and people like the services and don't mind the higher taxes for them... fine.  That's great.  But I think the USA was founded by people who thought a little differently than the European establishment of those times...and I'd prefer to keep it that way even today.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

I think another big difference between us and Europe is that it was only 2 generations ago that most of Europe was rubble and needed plans to get themselves put back together.
Last time there that widespread destruction here in the states would have been 150 years ago. Even longer since we've had a legit invasion against us.

[agentsteel53]

Even longer since we've had a legit invasion against us.

except if you talk to people living next to the border fence, who are convinced that the invasion is happening all the time.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

Even longer since we've had a legit invasion against us.

except if you talk to people living next to the border fence, who are convinced that the invasion is happening all the time.

They've been saying the same thing, just the people change, since the Spanish was claiming ownership of the land out there.

[agentsteel53]

the Spanish probably have a significantly more legitimate complaint since they actually lost sovereignty over the territory.

[brownpelican]

I agree w/ your state level comment.  I'll gladly pay more fees or whatever if those fees directly fund transportation initiatives in my states, but as is the current problem... how do you keep the state general assembly's collective hand out of the cookie jar?  They literally steal every dollar for the special transportation fund as it comes in, launder it through the general fund, and then out to pet initiatives.

If the state doesn't pass a law that specifically states that the money raised for highways and bridges go toward that, the money will be robbed for other purposes.

[wytout]

I agree w/ your state level comment.  I'll gladly pay more fees or whatever if those fees directly fund transportation initiatives in my states, but as is the current problem... how do you keep the state general assembly's collective hand out of the cookie jar?  They literally steal every dollar for the special transportation fund as it comes in, launder it through the general fund, and then out to pet initiatives.

If the state doesn't pass a law that specifically states that the money raised for highways and bridges go toward that, the money will be robbed for other purposes.

Laws mean nothing here if they are inconvenient to the incumbent party.  Why just last week, our Governor violated the CT state consitution by signing a budget for FY 2012/2013 that was passed by the state legislature and delivered on his desk.  It is a budget with a 2 billion dollar hole in it.  He put his signature on it, yet the state consitution simply says that any budget must have expenses and revenues be equal.  Budget deficits are illegal.  It didn't keep him from penning his signature on it tho.

Apparently quoting means nothing, too

[Brandon]

I think another big difference between us and Europe is that it was only 2 generations ago that most of Europe was rubble and needed plans to get themselves put back together.
Last time there that widespread destruction here in the states would have been 150 years ago. Even longer since we've had a legit invasion against us.

And even then, it was only a few states that had widespread destruction (like Georgia).  Most of the industrial areas never saw the war but from a newspaper.