State Route Oddities

[mcdonaat]

There are no 2xx routes, and no 2xxx routes. I have no clue why at all, though.

Not true.
Here's a Kentucky route log, and I see plenty of 2xx and 2xxx routes in there.
http://bunkerblast.info/roads/

Sorry about that, I meant Louisiana 2xx and 2xxx routes

[kphoger]

Actually, that was my bad.  It should have been obvious to me.

[NE2]

Same thing here, but only the east-west routes. LA 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12 are all super important, but LA 1 is a major road, LA 3 is about 90 miles long and twisty, LA 5 is about ten miles long, LA 7 doesn't exist anymore, and LA 9 is a rural route

There seems to be a rough grid in Louisiana, much like Kentucky. I'm talking about newer roads (KY 4 is a loop around Lexington, much like LA 3132).

From the looks of it, KY 4 was deleted in the 1940s when US 460 was extended, but the state changed the route to KY 40. KY 4 (the current one) was built in the 1950s, so the number was available for use. Interestingly enough, LA 3132 is a temporary designation, meant to ultimately be replaced by a full I-220 (which never happened). It's going to be replaced, from I-49 to I-20, as I-49, while the current I-49 north of 3132 is changing to I-149. The segment to the east of I-49 will hopefully be changed to I-169 or I-369.

Were any one- or two-digit numbers available when LA 3132 was designated?

There are no 2xx routes, and no 2xxx routes. I have no clue why at all, though.

Not true.
Here's a Kentucky route log, and I see plenty of 2xx and 2xxx routes in there.
http://bunkerblast.info/roads/

But... but... pooing is cool!

(He was talking about Louisiana.)

[kphoger]

Louisiana makes you think of pooing?

[mcdonaat]

Same thing here, but only the east-west routes. LA 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12 are all super important, but LA 1 is a major road, LA 3 is about 90 miles long and twisty, LA 5 is about ten miles long, LA 7 doesn't exist anymore, and LA 9 is a rural route

There seems to be a rough grid in Louisiana, much like Kentucky. I'm talking about newer roads (KY 4 is a loop around Lexington, much like LA 3132).

From the looks of it, KY 4 was deleted in the 1940s when US 460 was extended, but the state changed the route to KY 40. KY 4 (the current one) was built in the 1950s, so the number was available for use. Interestingly enough, LA 3132 is a temporary designation, meant to ultimately be replaced by a full I-220 (which never happened). It's going to be replaced, from I-49 to I-20, as I-49, while the current I-49 north of 3132 is changing to I-149. The segment to the east of I-49 will hopefully be changed to I-169 or I-369.

Were any one- or two-digit numbers available when LA 3132 was designated?

There are no 2xx routes, and no 2xxx routes. I have no clue why at all, though.

Not true.
Here's a Kentucky route log, and I see plenty of 2xx and 2xxx routes in there.
http://bunkerblast.info/roads/

But... but... pooing is cool!

(He was talking about Louisiana.)

Actually.... nope. LA 7 was still in use. LA 32 is available, but that's confusing when giving directions... considering La 3 is about three miles or so away, and imagine being told to take Hwy 80, but you can take Hwy 3 "too"

The DOTD does what it does, and asks nobody's approval. We do have a history of leaving US routes on the original alignments when possible. If a U.S. highway does become bypassed, it always becomes a 3xxx route, with the exception of routes bypassed before 1955 (La 182 for US 90, La 125 for US 165, La 471/La 34 for US 167). If it's new, though, you can bet its going to have a 3xxx number.

EDIT: Just got word from the DOTD that Louisiana has around 2500 individual routes. With over 17,000 miles, and 2500 routes, the DOTD maintains routes at an average length of 6.8 miles long.

[kphoger]

As for four-digit route numbers.....
I find it interesting that the city of Monterrey (N.L.), in developing a numbering system for metropolitan trunk roads (both surface routes and expressways), chose one with four digits.  There are only 32 routes in the system, and one of them is four digits long:

East-west:  6, 8, 10, 12, 16, 20, 22, 24, 26, 30, 34, 36, 40, 48
North-south:  1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21, 25, 27, 29, 31, 41
Rings/Bypasses:  210, 410, 910, 1610

Why 1610 ???

http://www.nl.gob.mx/?P=apdu_senaletica

It makes for one heck of a crowded sign:  http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4425/snv36817qk2.jpg

[NE2]

If the first one were 110, it would be a (useless) pattern of squares.

[Occidental Tourist]

How about all the signs in the San Fernando Valley for on ramps to the Ventura Fwy that have both north-south and east-west directional signs?

E.g., http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=34.157164,-118.413775&spn=0.002668,0.004128&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=34.157045,-118.413892&panoid=fc9dUPxSaCiF3LIrQgzMNA&cbp=12,197.39,,0,-1.81

[PHLBOS]

Given some of the previously-listed PA route oddities, I'm a bit surprised that nobody has yet commented on the truncating of PA 100 that took place within the last decade.  Previously, south of US 30 in Exton; PA 100 went into West Chester (along Pottstown Pike) and then multiplex w/PA 52 for about 5 miles then break off near Lenape along Creek Road.  From there it would head south (via a short multiplex w/US 1 in Chadds Ford) and then to the DE State line (where it would continue as DE 100 towards Wilmington).

Today, PA 100 south of Exton has shifted onto the previously unnumbered (in terms of signage) bypass and terminates about 2 miles later at US 202 just north of the US 322 West split.  Such truncation results in DE 100 simply stopping at the state line.

Personally, given such truncation; I would have extended PA 52 along the old PA 100/Pottstown Pike north of West Chester to the current PA 100 and designated the old PA 100 leg from the DE State line to PA 52 as PA 200.

any instances of state-to-interstate upgrades like this?  CA-15 may one day qualify, if they ever upgrade it to full interstate standard.  

I can't think of any like this off the top of my head and TN 840 to I-840 is mainly roadgeek conjecture at this point.

However, my home state of PA has several interstates that were state or US routes, albeit not the same number.

1) Part of I-180 was PA 147.
2) The I-376 extension was PA 60.
3) The PA 17 in NW PA became I-86.
4) The Northeast Extension of the PA Turnpike (I-476) was previously PA 9.
5) Most of I-83 started life as US 111.
6) The infamous I-99 was solely US 220 before the I-99 shields went up.  Someday, US 15 will join that party.

Of course, you do have the other way around with I-378 to PA 378.

Once upon a time, the Schuylkill Expressway (I-76) was numbered as PA 43.  

One has to wonder if PA 581 in the Camp Hill-Harrisburg area was once intended or planned to be a future to Interstate, hence the route number.  To the southeast of that area, one has the short I-283 and the longer PA 283.

Another oddity is MA 127 in Gloucester.  Between the MA 133 and MA 128 intersections, it splits into two and basically becomes a ring road around Cape Ann.

[hbelkins]

Louisiana makes you think of pooing?

No, Tim Brown does.

bunkerblast.info? Seriously? 

[kurumi]

Louisiana makes you think of pooing?

No, Tim Brown does.

bunkerblast.info? Seriously? 

Tim Brown's is one of the better .info roadgeek sites (though I can only think of one other...)

[roadman65]

NJ 440 exists in two segments on either end of Staten Island, yet are signed in opposing cardinal direction pairs.

All of NY-NJ 440 is signed N-S except on the Exit 10 Ramp of the NJ Turnpike and I believe at the New Brunswick Avenue ramp off the GSP Service Road.

It was like you said that way before 1988 or sometime in the late 80s.  Now it is all uniform.

[hbelkins]

Louisiana makes you think of pooing?

No, Tim Brown does.

bunkerblast.info? Seriously? 

Tim Brown's is one of the better .info roadgeek sites (though I can only think of one other...)

That's not a roadgeek site. That's the world's only viatology site. 

Seriously, I have not looked at Tim's site and did not know he'd registered that domain name. I have to give him props for attempting to catalog Kentucky's numbered state highways, which go well into the 3xxx range and often change frequently (such as KY 3677 being added to the system in Perry County, and KY 978 being deleted in Owen County). However, I discovered that by manipulating the truck weight information data available on one of the official KYTC pages, you can get a de facto Kentucky route log, and I'm a firm believer in not duplicating effort when possible.

If such a site existed for West Virginia, I'd delete my duplicative and hopelessly outdated WV state highway pages.

[Urban Prairie Schooner]

and from your avatar, they dont fear 4 digit routes...and its not like LA is that big of a state!

Louisiana seems to go up to the three thousands.  do they have 3000+ distinct state routes?  if not, what is the rationale behind which numbers get used?

I know Shreveport has an important bypass (freeway, even?) which is a 3xxx so it's not like the high numbers are for lower-classification routes.

From driving around, the 1955 renumbering made the state better. However, it left a confusing mess of numbers that even I cannot understand. There are no 2xx routes, and no 2xxx routes. I have no clue why at all, though. We also have the XXX-X routes, most of which are roads that should be city roads. Some, like 1208-3 (connects LA 488 to US 165/167/71, and then US 165 BUS/LA 1) are important, but others, like 798-3, connect a state road to a city street. Louisiana has confused me to death, but I've just learned to grow with it (LA 3285 is 0.8 miles long, LA 1 is 436 miles long, but LA 1242 is 0.2 miles long, while LA 3132 is 10 miles long).

We don't fear 4-digit state routes... we embrace some 6-digit routes too (LA 1208-3 being an example over in the shield gallery).

When the state highways were renumbered in 1955, state routes were legislatively divided into "A" (primary), "B" (secondary), and "C" (farm-to-market) systems. The numbers 1-185 were assigned to "A" and "B" routes and 300-1241 were assigned to the less important "C" routes. I assume that space was left between 185 and 300 for potential expansion in that number range (only one route number, 191, was ever added there).

Route numbers added post-1955 were designated in the 3xxx range. This numbering policy applied to all new routes, which explains why some 3xxx routes are minor back roads while others are full-blown freeways. This policy was continued until a few years ago, when DOTD started to assign route numbers sequentially increasing from the end of the original 1955 sequence (1241).  The most recently assigned route numbers are thus 12xx numbers starting from 1242.

The hypenated routes are legislatively considered to be a single route (the base number) comprised of separate sections (the number after the hyphen). The text of the original 1955 legislation creating these routes makes this clear.

[agentsteel53]

I don't suppose anyone knows when they switched from the pelican shield to the state map?  was it during the great renumbering of 1955?  several other states (Florida, CA) have switched route markers during a big renumbering to increase motorist recognition of the change.

[Urban Prairie Schooner]

I don't suppose anyone knows when they switched from the pelican shield to the state map?  was it during the great renumbering of 1955?  several other states (Florida, CA) have switched route markers during a big renumbering to increase motorist recognition of the change.

The state outline shield was definitely in use before 1955, back to around 1948 or whereabouts. The diamond pelican shield was used at least up to 1939 (a map in my possession from that year confirms this). I would venture a guess of 1942 as that is when the Louisiana Highway Commission was replaced/reorganized as the Louisiana Department of Highways.

[agentsteel53]

The state outline shield was definitely in use before 1955, back to around 1948 or whereabouts. The diamond pelican shield was used at least up to 1939 (a map in my possession from that year confirms this). I would venture a guess of 1942 as that is when the Louisiana Highway Commission was replaced/reorganized as the Louisiana Department of Highways.

thank you for the info!

the implication is that there are likely old LA map route markers with block fonts, embossing, etc.

now that I recall, I believe I've seen a 1948 map which shows a map shield with block fonts.

do you know when they switched from white/black to green/white maps?

[Urban Prairie Schooner]

The state outline shield was definitely in use before 1955, back to around 1948 or whereabouts. The diamond pelican shield was used at least up to 1939 (a map in my possession from that year confirms this). I would venture a guess of 1942 as that is when the Louisiana Highway Commission was replaced/reorganized as the Louisiana Department of Highways.

thank you for the info!

the implication is that there are likely old LA map route markers with block fonts, embossing, etc.

now that I recall, I believe I've seen a 1948 map which shows a map shield with block fonts.

do you know when they switched from white/black to green/white maps?

The 1939 map just had an illustration of the route marker for reference. The state routes on the map itself were marked with plain circles.

The earliest pictures of the green on white shields that I have seen date from 1960 (La. Dept. of Highways Annual Report). Earlier Annual Reports (1950s era) show state outline markers only.

[agentsteel53]

The earliest pictures of the green on white shields that I have seen date from 1960 (La. Dept. of Highways Annual Report). Earlier Annual Reports (1950s era) show state outline markers only.

1960, eh?  that predates the 1961 MUTCD which abolished the outline shields.  I wonder if LA was the one which inspired the change, or if it was just a coincidence.  most federal standards are adopted from states which had used them successfully for years.  for example, the modern interstate shield (federal 1970 spec) was used in Pennsylvania as early as 1965.

[tidecat]

I found out the hardway once that KY 57 exists in two disconnected segments.  The northern section actually has a mileage guide sign indicating the distance to the end of the road, which ends at a gravel road leading to a pond.

KY also has at least one route that is built through a shallow stream, although I don't recall which one it is.

[hbelkins]

I found out the hardway once that KY 57 exists in two disconnected segments.  The northern section actually has a mileage guide sign indicating the distance to the end of the road, which ends at a gravel road leading to a pond.

KY also has at least one route that is built through a shallow stream, although I don't recall which one it is.

KY 57 has been rerouted so that it is now a continuous route, but I don't know if it is signed like that since I have only seen maps and official order listings (for Fleming and Nicholas counties), and have not been there to see the signage.

Kentucky also has discontinuous routes for KY 8 (three segments), KY 70, KY 92 and KY 211 that I can think of off the top of my head.

[mcdonaat]

Disconnected routes have always confused me... in most other states, once a highway is split in half, the numbering changes.

[PHLBOS]

As a result of 1989 routing of US 1 onto I-93 and I-95 from Boston south to Dedham; MA 109 and MA 203 presently just 'end' at unnumbered roads.  MA 1A does that as well but its close proximity to US 1 and I-95 (at Exit 15A-B) interchange overshadows its 'nowhere' terminus.

[SSOWorld]

Not sure if anyone mentioned but Wisonsin has routes that follow another and end right on it after.

[Alps]

As a result of 1989 routing of US 1 onto I-93 and I-95 from Boston south to Dedham; MA 109 and MA 203 presently just 'end' at unnumbered roads.  MA 1A does that as well but its close proximity to US 1 and I-95 (at Exit 15A-B) interchange overshadows its 'nowhere' terminus.

I believe MA 1A ends at US 1 - it actually turns east to do so, although signage uses "TO". I am willing to be wrong.