CA-58 and I-40

[cahwyguy]

The W. Main St. (old US 66/91) interchange in Barstow is still unnumbered. It would be Exit 233 if it were numbered. Perhaps the next signage replacement will finally give the interchange a number.

Those are last generation button copy signs.  They'll be there for a couple more decades.

According to the Cal-Nexus rules, usually a sign at the gore point was sufficient. So if what is missing is an exit number on the BGS, they are in no rush.

[Scott5114]

The W. Main St. (old US 66/91) interchange in Barstow is still unnumbered. It would be Exit 233 if it were numbered. Perhaps the next signage replacement will finally give the interchange a number.

Those are last generation button copy signs.  They'll be there for a couple more decades.

According to the Cal-Nexus rules, usually a sign at the gore point was sufficient. So if what is missing is an exit number on the BGS, they are in no rush.

What a brilliant misunderstanding on Caltrans's part on how people actually use exit numbers.

[cahwyguy]

The W. Main St. (old US 66/91) interchange in Barstow is still unnumbered. It would be Exit 233 if it were numbered. Perhaps the next signage replacement will finally give the interchange a number.

Those are last generation button copy signs.  They'll be there for a couple more decades.

According to the Cal-Nexus rules, usually a sign at the gore point was sufficient. So if what is missing is an exit number on the BGS, they are in no rush.

What a brilliant misunderstanding on Caltrans's part on how people actually use exit numbers.

Actually, it was an easy solution for when they were first adding the numbers. Add the numbers at the gore point signs first. Then add sign overlays to existing signs, within the borders. Worry about the bigger and more expensive signs, with external tabs, when you fund a sign replacement and update project.

Ref: https://dot.ca.gov/programs/safety-programs/exit
Information from their older page is still on my page: https://www.cahighways.org/num-exitnum.html

[Scott5114]

The W. Main St. (old US 66/91) interchange in Barstow is still unnumbered. It would be Exit 233 if it were numbered. Perhaps the next signage replacement will finally give the interchange a number.

Those are last generation button copy signs.  They'll be there for a couple more decades.

According to the Cal-Nexus rules, usually a sign at the gore point was sufficient. So if what is missing is an exit number on the BGS, they are in no rush.

What a brilliant misunderstanding on Caltrans's part on how people actually use exit numbers.

Actually, it was an easy solution for when they were first adding the numbers. Add the numbers at the gore point signs first. Then add sign overlays to existing signs, within the borders. Worry about the bigger and more expensive signs, with external tabs, when you fund a sign replacement and update project.

Ref: https://dot.ca.gov/programs/safety-programs/exit
Information from their older page is still on my page: https://www.cahighways.org/num-exitnum.html

It may have been the easy way to stage it from the agency point of view, but it was also unfortunately kind of useless for someone who is used to using exit numbers to navigate. If I have in my mind "Okay, I need to get off at Exit 163" as the only information I have committed to memory (usually the easiest thing to do if you're looking at a paper map with exit numbers since you can't necessarily guess the exit name from a map), a sign that just says "Snorfington Road, Exit 1 mile" with no exit number isn't going to be helpful. Is that Exit 163? Should I be preparing to get off the freeway? If this isn't it, did I pass my exit already, or is it still coming up? None of those questions are answered by that sign. And while having just the number at the gore point is better than nothing, it can lead to drivers making a "death dive" toward the ramp if that was the exit number they were looking for and they weren't expecting it. (If doing that is even possible...I've seen photos of California posting the gore point signs way after the point where someone could physically decide to exit because of some safety regulation prohibiting sign crews from getting too close to the physical gore.)

Of course, this is all sort of a moot point now that most every exit sign in CA has been retrofitted with exit numbers in all of the expected locations, but I get the impression that finding my way around California in the Cal-Nexus era would have been deeply frustrating to me.

[vdeane]

It may have been the easy way to stage it from the agency point of view, but it was also unfortunately kind of useless for someone who is used to using exit numbers to navigate. If I have in my mind "Okay, I need to get off at Exit 163" as the only information I have committed to memory (usually the easiest thing to do if you're looking at a paper map with exit numbers since you can't necessarily guess the exit name from a map), a sign that just says "Snorfington Road, Exit 1 mile" with no exit number isn't going to be helpful. Is that Exit 163? Should I be preparing to get off the freeway? If this isn't it, did I pass my exit already, or is it still coming up? None of those questions are answered by that sign. And while having just the number at the gore point is better than nothing, it can lead to drivers making a "death dive" toward the ramp if that was the exit number they were looking for and they weren't expecting it. (If doing that is even possible...I've seen photos of California posting the gore point signs way after the point where someone could physically decide to exit because of some safety regulation prohibiting sign crews from getting too close to the physical gore.)

Of course, this is all sort of a moot point now that most every exit sign in CA has been retrofitted with exit numbers in all of the expected locations, but I get the impression that finding my way around California in the Cal-Nexus era would have been deeply frustrating to me.

And CalTrans isn't the only transportation agency that thinks so: Ontario has a similar problem, and unlike California, it's permanent.  MTO only puts exit numbers on the 1 km advance guide sign (or equivalent when the main advance sign is at a different distance), the gore sign, and service signs - any other guide signs around will lack the exit number.  Ontario has even started using internal tabs on many signs in recent years.

[SeriesE]

It may have been the easy way to stage it from the agency point of view, but it was also unfortunately kind of useless for someone who is used to using exit numbers to navigate. If I have in my mind "Okay, I need to get off at Exit 163" as the only information I have committed to memory (usually the easiest thing to do if you're looking at a paper map with exit numbers since you can't necessarily guess the exit name from a map), a sign that just says "Snorfington Road, Exit 1 mile" with no exit number isn't going to be helpful. Is that Exit 163? Should I be preparing to get off the freeway? If this isn't it, did I pass my exit already, or is it still coming up? None of those questions are answered by that sign. And while having just the number at the gore point is better than nothing, it can lead to drivers making a "death dive" toward the ramp if that was the exit number they were looking for and they weren't expecting it. (If doing that is even possible...I've seen photos of California posting the gore point signs way after the point where someone could physically decide to exit because of some safety regulation prohibiting sign crews from getting too close to the physical gore.)

Of course, this is all sort of a moot point now that most every exit sign in CA has been retrofitted with exit numbers in all of the expected locations, but I get the impression that finding my way around California in the Cal-Nexus era would have been deeply frustrating to me.

Since exit numbers didn't get added until relatively recently in California, most Californians don't use exit numbers to navigate.

[Max Rockatansky]

I want to say the Ojai Freeway is the longest limited access corridor in California which still lacks exit numbers? 

[cahwyguy]

It may have been the easy way to stage it from the agency point of view, but it was also unfortunately kind of useless for someone who is used to using exit numbers to navigate. If I have in my mind "Okay, I need to get off at Exit 163" as the only information I have committed to memory (usually the easiest thing to do if you're looking at a paper map with exit numbers since you can't necessarily guess the exit name from a map), a sign that just says "Snorfington Road, Exit 1 mile" with no exit number isn't going to be helpful. Is that Exit 163? Should I be preparing to get off the freeway? If this isn't it, did I pass my exit already, or is it still coming up? None of those questions are answered by that sign. And while having just the number at the gore point is better than nothing, it can lead to drivers making a "death dive" toward the ramp if that was the exit number they were looking for and they weren't expecting it. (If doing that is even possible...I've seen photos of California posting the gore point signs way after the point where someone could physically decide to exit because of some safety regulation prohibiting sign crews from getting too close to the physical gore.)

Of course, this is all sort of a moot point now that most every exit sign in CA has been retrofitted with exit numbers in all of the expected locations, but I get the impression that finding my way around California in the Cal-Nexus era would have been deeply frustrating to me.

Since exit numbers didn't get added until relatively recently in California, most Californians don't use exit numbers to navigate.

And, as someone who grew up driving in California -- in the 1970s, without exit numbers or even knowing about post miles back then -- you learned to look things up on maps, and to pay attention to the signs with the next three exits, and to start moving over when your exit appeared at the bottom.

(and, by the way, this is still true today, given that exit numbers don't appear on the "next 3 exits" signs in California. They do in other states.)

"Kids these days" (and get off of my lawn :-) ) are, in many ways, overdependent on the navigation apps which tell them the exit numbers. And, despite what we roadgeeks believe, most folks out there driving have no idea that exit numbers are really mileage based. They just see them as sequentially increasing tags.

It's great and all for California highways to have the numbers, don't get me wrong. But they really aren't required.

[Max Rockatansky]

Kids drive these days?  I thought it was only my 17 year old niece.

[Scott5114]

It may have been the easy way to stage it from the agency point of view, but it was also unfortunately kind of useless for someone who is used to using exit numbers to navigate. If I have in my mind "Okay, I need to get off at Exit 163" as the only information I have committed to memory (usually the easiest thing to do if you're looking at a paper map with exit numbers since you can't necessarily guess the exit name from a map), a sign that just says "Snorfington Road, Exit 1 mile" with no exit number isn't going to be helpful. Is that Exit 163? Should I be preparing to get off the freeway? If this isn't it, did I pass my exit already, or is it still coming up? None of those questions are answered by that sign. And while having just the number at the gore point is better than nothing, it can lead to drivers making a "death dive" toward the ramp if that was the exit number they were looking for and they weren't expecting it. (If doing that is even possible...I've seen photos of California posting the gore point signs way after the point where someone could physically decide to exit because of some safety regulation prohibiting sign crews from getting too close to the physical gore.)

Of course, this is all sort of a moot point now that most every exit sign in CA has been retrofitted with exit numbers in all of the expected locations, but I get the impression that finding my way around California in the Cal-Nexus era would have been deeply frustrating to me.

Since exit numbers didn't get added until relatively recently in California, most Californians don't use exit numbers to navigate.

I also didn't get added until relatively recently in California, so...

(and, by the way, this is still true today, given that exit numbers don't appear on the "next 3 exits" signs in California. They do in other states.)

Which states do that? I don't think I've ever seen it—Kansas was an early adopter of those signs in the region I grew up in and theirs were identical to California's. The federal MUTCD layout for them also doesn't include exit numbers.

In areas with established exit numbers, you wouldn't be using those directly with the exit numbers. It'd be more like "OK, I just passed Exit 170, and my exit is 174, so mine is in about 4 miles...Oh, one of the next three exits is in 3¾ miles, that's probably it."

[vdeane]

Which states do that? I don't think I've ever seen it—Kansas was an early adopter of those signs in the region I grew up in and theirs were identical to California's. The federal MUTCD layout for them also doesn't include exit numbers.

Off the top of my head, I can mainly think of this.

[stevashe]

Which states do that? I don't think I've ever seen it—Kansas was an early adopter of those signs in the region I grew up in and theirs were identical to California's. The federal MUTCD layout for them also doesn't include exit numbers.

Off the top of my head, I can mainly think of this.

Even that isn't quite what I think Daniel was describing since it only has exit numbers.

[cahwyguy]

Which states do that? I don't think I've ever seen it—Kansas was an early adopter of those signs in the region I grew up in and theirs were identical to California's. The federal MUTCD layout for them also doesn't include exit numbers.

Off the top of my head, I can mainly think of this.

Even that isn't quite what I think Daniel was describing since it only has exit numbers.

What I have a vague recollection of -- and I can't remember the state -- was the traditional upcoming 3 exit sign, but there was a number before each exit name.

[FredAkbar]

Which states do that? I don't think I've ever seen it—Kansas was an early adopter of those signs in the region I grew up in and theirs were identical to California's. The federal MUTCD layout for them also doesn't include exit numbers.

Off the top of my head, I can mainly think of this.

Even that isn't quite what I think Daniel was describing since it only has exit numbers.

What the hell kind of exit numbering is that?

[kkt]

It may have been the easy way to stage it from the agency point of view, but it was also unfortunately kind of useless for someone who is used to using exit numbers to navigate. If I have in my mind "Okay, I need to get off at Exit 163" as the only information I have committed to memory (usually the easiest thing to do if you're looking at a paper map with exit numbers since you can't necessarily guess the exit name from a map), a sign that just says "Snorfington Road, Exit 1 mile" with no exit number isn't going to be helpful. Is that Exit 163? Should I be preparing to get off the freeway? If this isn't it, did I pass my exit already, or is it still coming up? None of those questions are answered by that sign. And while having just the number at the gore point is better than nothing, it can lead to drivers making a "death dive" toward the ramp if that was the exit number they were looking for and they weren't expecting it. (If doing that is even possible...I've seen photos of California posting the gore point signs way after the point where someone could physically decide to exit because of some safety regulation prohibiting sign crews from getting too close to the physical gore.)

Of course, this is all sort of a moot point now that most every exit sign in CA has been retrofitted with exit numbers in all of the expected locations, but I get the impression that finding my way around California in the Cal-Nexus era would have been deeply frustrating to me.

Since exit numbers didn't get added until relatively recently in California, most Californians don't use exit numbers to navigate.

Real Californians (tm) use the postmiles to navigate.  Two miles past the county line... we should be just about there.

[Max Rockatansky]

The irony is that some of the counties use Mile Markers.  Monterey County comes to mind as the most prominent example near me.  I thought it was highly amusing to see brand new Mile Markers paddles being up last year on Camp 9 Road:

https://flic.kr/p/2roHFmm

But the temporary paper plate Mile Markers were even better:

https://flic.kr/p/2roJkSf

[kkt]

The irony is that some of the counties use Mile Markers.  Monterey County comes to mind as the most prominent example near me.  I thought it was highly amusing to see brand new Mile Markers paddles being up last year on Camp 9 Road:

https://flic.kr/p/2roHFmm

But the temporary paper plate Mile Markers were even better:

https://flic.kr/p/2roJkSf

Paper plates... haha.  Put up by some host helping their guests find a party?

[Max Rockatansky]

The irony is that some of the counties use Mile Markers.  Monterey County comes to mind as the most prominent example near me.  I thought it was highly amusing to see brand new Mile Markers paddles being up last year on Camp 9 Road:

https://flic.kr/p/2roHFmm

But the temporary paper plate Mile Markers were even better:

https://flic.kr/p/2roJkSf

Paper plates... haha.  Put up by some host helping their guests find a party?

No, the asphalt crew who was marking where they needed to put paddles.

[vdeane]

Which states do that? I don't think I've ever seen it—Kansas was an early adopter of those signs in the region I grew up in and theirs were identical to California's. The federal MUTCD layout for them also doesn't include exit numbers.

Off the top of my head, I can mainly think of this.

Even that isn't quite what I think Daniel was describing since it only has exit numbers.

What the hell kind of exit numbering is that?

Sequential

[ClassicHasClass]

Real Californians (tm) use the postmiles to navigate.  Two miles past the county line... we should be just about there.

I absolutely do this, and not an exaggeration.

[kkt]

Real Californians (tm) use the postmiles to navigate.  Two miles past the county line... we should be just about there.

I absolutely do this, and not an exaggeration.

I actually do this when I'm in California and not on the main highways.

[Plutonic Panda]

I measure my distance in time. Sort of depending on where I'm at if I'm coming over to your house or mini from somewhere in lunch, I'll say I'm 30 minutes away even though it may be six or 7 miles. If I'm in a rural we're driving across the country. I'll generally just say what town I'm in or near. I've never once referred to a mile marker or county line in regards to my location.